Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Advice for playing against long pips for beginner
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Home Forum Home > Coaching & Tips > Coaching & Tips

Advice for playing against long pips for beginner

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 248
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advice for playing against long pips for beginner
    Posted: 10/02/2017 at 3:37am
What short advice would you give to a beginner who hasn't played against long pips before that is about to face a relatively low level LP player for the first time? 

My ideas were:

1 - Play to their LPs, they have LPs on that side because they're weaker on that side. Watch the ball closely as it comes back, your top spin will probably come back as weak back spin. Don't be afraid of the spin and make sure to still swing through the ball with good racket speed. Treat the game as a learning exercise and don't worry about missing.

2- Avoid their LPs as the spin will be confusing, when you do get a ball back from the LP side just remember that the spin will be the opposite of what you gave them. So after a top spin you'll get back spin which you can easily push back. If you push to their LP side you'll get back top spin which you can drive/ loop easily. 

3- Don't think about the LPs, just watch the rotation of the ball and play normally.


Back to Top
henningf View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2017
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 3:51am
Is this player twiddeling? I would say, If you hit into the long pips remember, topspin = spin reversal, underspin = no spin/weak topspin. And try to learn and play a «normal» game. Try to not get frustrated (many players loose their first match against weak lp users because they get frustrated.)
Nittaku Violin, Nittaku H3 pro, Butterfly Rozena
Back to Top
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 248
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 3:58am
Originally posted by henningf henningf wrote:

Is this player twiddeling? I would say, If you hit into the long pips remember, topspin = spin reversal, underspin = no spin/weak topspin. And try to learn and play a «normal» game. Try to not get frustrated (many players loose their first match against weak lp users because they get frustrated.)

I don't think they're twiddling but haven't actually seen the player. 

The not getting frustrated part seems sound Thumbs Up
Back to Top
garwor View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 06/02/2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 653
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garwor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 4:06am
if you are beginner, dont even think of looping. Open bat fully and play only with no spin.
Equipment database

Viscaria FL
fh: DHS Skyline neo tg2
bh: Xiom Vega pro

Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services!
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2491
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 6:27am

Serve as fast as you can topspin across court to his long pips corner, if weak, do it over and over until he learns how to handle it then stop doing it.
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
Back to Top
AndySmith View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 6:50am
Everyone is different - what helped me was option 1.  I spent a long time thinking about what was physically happening to the ball and I gained a lot of confidence for picking the right ball to attack.  And of course, when you work out how to generate the type of return you know you can attack by playing into the pips, the confusion is over and they become a real weak point for the opponent.

But some players don't like to think too much about this - some would say that it's over-analysing, and a raw beginner won't grasp the basics of spin reversal without decent table time against it - so this doesn't work for everyone.  So simpler strategy seems to work better for them when advising during a match.  At my level, the worst habit to get in to is pushing "backspin" into the pips more than once.  The first push comes back as empty or light topspin, the second push pops up, and the pips player is probably already moving around to hit with their reverse rubber.  So don't push twice into pips, but be prepared to push a pips return off your loop because they can come back loaded with backspin (obvs).

Once you grasp the basics of how individual points tend to go, you can start to plan ahead and work the pips to your advantage.
This was a great signature until the abs ball ruined it.
Back to Top
BRS View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/08/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 634
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 9:14am
Originally posted by garwor garwor wrote:

if you are beginner, dont even think of looping. Open bat fully and play only with no spin.


+1 if your goal is to win. If you just want to learn what LP does then experiment and lose.
Back to Top
TT newbie View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/25/2011
Location: Far Far Away
Status: Offline
Points: 664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 10:21am
Originally posted by garwor garwor wrote:

if you are beginner, dont even think of looping. Open bat fully and play only with no spin.
Unfortunately the best way to beat LP players is looping consistently, but as said, a beginner is not able to do that.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 12131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 10:50am
Best advice for playing against LP?  

Play against LP a lot!  You will then figure out what you can and can't do.

Just know that you will never get a ball with much topspin on it from that side.
Back to Top
in2spin View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 12/09/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 929
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 11:02am
LPs cannot create spin, at best it can reverse it, with some players, they just take spin off the ball.

So if playing to the LPs - if you can play low spin, you will receive low spin or no spin in return.

If you are getting better at reading spin, and the player has reversal capabilities, then, you can use spin to make a predictable come back (i.e. - if you push heavy, you will basically receive a topspin loop back, even though the player has a downward motion).  However, with a skilled LP player, the heavy downspin ball is his favorite for attacking, because, if he reverses, he is hitting a ball that is pulling down to the table, so he can hit with impunity effectively.

Lower skilled LP players just take spin off the ball, basically hitting change-ups, not fully utilizing capabilities.  That can be challenging also, because the spin variation is great.  Can be easy for an advanced player, can be a nightmare for a beginner.

:)


Edited by in2spin - 10/02/2017 at 11:06am
Back to Top
mts388 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/21/2014
Location: Sonora CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1395
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 11:13am
Never serve sidespin into LP's.  Serve heavy backspin into the pips and attack their return.  Try to end the rallies as quick as you can.  Long rallies favor the LP's.
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 3:21pm
serve long no spin to the pips side deep backhand.  Se what your opponent does with that. it will probably be something you can smash
W6 fl with Illumina 1.8

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2895
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Never serve sidespin into LP's.  Serve heavy backspin into the pips and attack their return.  Try to end the rallies as quick as you can.  Long rallies favor the LP's.

 this is a good approach , if for example you want spin reversal then heavy back spin to my pimples 
and for me  as a long pimple player i tend to push to return the ball which can then be attacked by my opponent 

note to myself roll the ball
Ulmo Duality,tibhar 5Q sound black, Dtechs grass ox red
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website,
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6088
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Never serve sidespin into LP's.  Serve heavy backspin into the pips and attack their return.  Try to end the rallies as quick as you can.  Long rallies favor the LP's.
 this is a good approach , if for example you want spin reversal then heavy back spin to my pimples 
and for me  as a long pimple player i tend to push to return the ball which can then be attacked by my opponent 

note to myself roll the ball
=================
What you mean by "roll the ball"?
skip3119
Back to Top
ssmilk View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 09/29/2017
Location: LA
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ssmilk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 10:18pm
good points

Edited by ssmilk - 10/02/2017 at 10:19pm
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/30/2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 299
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 1:52am
This sorta depends on how you like playing and whether the long pips player is a chopper or a pushblocker (and obviously, how good they are at that).

My best shot is loop off of underspin so against choppers I prefer to start with a topspin serve into the pips and a loop into the pips as as a third ball.  The more underspin comes back the more topspin I can apply, so typically I want to loop once or twice into the pips and then loop the next shot into the inverted side.  By that point, the ball is extremely heavy and it is hard to the combination player to control it with the inverted side.  

The same basic strategy typically works against pushblockers and choppers, but there is a difference in placement.  Against a chopper, I move the ball in an out quite a bit.  Against a pushblocker, I want to place everything very deep.  Otherwise, you will be dealing with some crazy angles.  With the pushblocker, I want to get him away from the table, while with a chopper I want him to move in and out.

If that basic strategy (engineer a heavy underspin return and loop to the inverted side) does not work, I switch gears and serve heavy underspin, moving it along the table.  Here things are trickier since the ball comes back as light topspin from frictionless pips, but can be anything from no-spin to top-spin from friction pips.  I do not have a good FH hit or smash, but I can hit flat pretty well off of the BH side, so I try to maneuver the ball toward that.

On the serve return, it really varies since everyone plays differently.  Better combination players will try to immediately initiate with heavy sidespin and wide angles.  In that case, I mostly try to return the ball deep to the center of the table.  That takes angles away and I can try to get into one of the two strategies I outlines above.

ILya
Stiga Allround Bengtsson circa 1970s
FH: DHS H3 Neo Nat, 40deg, Red
BH: Tibhar MX-S, max, black
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1976
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 2:26am
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

This sorta depends on how you like playing and whether the long pips player is a chopper or a pushblocker (and obviously, how good they are at that).

My best shot is loop off of underspin so against choppers I prefer to start with a topspin serve into the pips and a loop into the pips as as a third ball.  The more underspin comes back the more topspin I can apply, so typically I want to loop once or twice into the pips and then loop the next shot into the inverted side.  By that point, the ball is extremely heavy and it is hard to the combination player to control it with the inverted side.  

The same basic strategy typically works against pushblockers and choppers, but there is a difference in placement.  Against a chopper, I move the ball in an out quite a bit.  Against a pushblocker, I want to place everything very deep.  Otherwise, you will be dealing with some crazy angles.  With the pushblocker, I want to get him away from the table, while with a chopper I want him to move in and out.

If that basic strategy (engineer a heavy underspin return and loop to the inverted side) does not work, I switch gears and serve heavy underspin, moving it along the table.  Here things are trickier since the ball comes back as light topspin from frictionless pips, but can be anything from no-spin to top-spin from friction pips.  I do not have a good FH hit or smash, but I can hit flat pretty well off of the BH side, so I try to maneuver the ball toward that.

On the serve return, it really varies since everyone plays differently.  Better combination players will try to immediately initiate with heavy sidespin and wide angles.  In that case, I mostly try to return the ball deep to the center of the table.  That takes angles away and I can try to get into one of the two strategies I outlines above.

ILya
A good pushblocker (such as The Pushblocker) can put the ball back very quickly, to uncomfortable locations.  Looping repeatedly against those players is very difficult, even for strong players.  A good strategy in that case is to alternate push-loop-push-loop.  

The most important thing about playing pips is not to get surprised.  You want to feed them hits (top/dead/under spin) that give you something reliable back.  You want to place the ball where they can't surprise you with the return placement.  You want to have time to hit multiple shots in a row.

Well, besides not getting surprised, the other "most important thing" is to be patient.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/30/2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 299
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 2:32am
I have played Pushblocker and he, predictably, wiped the floor with me.  He is, however, a much higher rated player, so it should be no surprise.

With long pi players closer to my general playing level (1800ish or so) I usually do not have those issues as they can not place the ball as well as Oliver can.  Most importantly, they usually do not have serves nearly as good as Oliver's.  His serves gave me a lot of trouble since it was very difficult to control the placement of the return.

Perhaps most importantly, in the years since I played Oliver, I spent a few months practicing almost exclusively against long pip and medium pip players.  That was really helpful and I most definitely do not surprised by what I get back from combination players.  I am sure Pushblocker will still beat me handily if we play again, but I will make him work harder than last time.

ILya
Stiga Allround Bengtsson circa 1970s
FH: DHS H3 Neo Nat, 40deg, Red
BH: Tibhar MX-S, max, black
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1976
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 2:40am
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Most importantly, they usually do not have serves nearly as good as Oliver's.  His serves gave me a lot of trouble since it was very difficult to control the placement of the return.

+1
 
I've only played him once, non-rated.  My experience was that his serves bothered me a lot more than his pushblocking.  
Back to Top
Lawson View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2016
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 4:01am
Make sure he reads and understand this article:
http://www.gregsttpages.com/articles3/53-articles/long-pimples/87-long-pimples-for-beginners
Then just practise a lot against players with LP. Not all play the same.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer