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Looping against HEAVY backspins from Sun Jianfei

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    Posted: 10/08/2017 at 6:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 6:39pm
Thank you very much . I think when we have learned to loop chops, we can loop everything else easier.
I have some footage about me doing that with a club player and the feeling to fully understand the mechanics of the fh loop is very powerful, especially when looping 15 or more in a row: it really forces you to find balance, timing and above all using the shoulder and arm motions like a pendulum, saving A LOT of energy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 7:41pm
When he speaks of tightening the grip, does that mean starting with a tight grip?  Or starting with a relaxed grip and tightening towards the point of contact?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 8:43pm
I haven't watched the video, but I'm sure he means starting with a more relaxed grip and then tightening towards the point of contact. That's pretty much what the hand does all the time when looping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanchope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 8:43pm
Man, I just played on the table next to theirs yesterday...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

When he speaks of tightening the grip, does that mean starting with a tight grip?  Or starting with a relaxed grip and tightening towards the point of contact?

As a former chopper both with a hardbat and with inverted rubber who could loop or topspin heavy chop at the expert level in my twenties with a fair amount of power and considerable consistency, I can tell you assuredly that you don't want to have a tight grip at the start of your backsing when looping either with your forehand or backhand against heavy underspin.  Your grip at the start of your backswing should not of course be excessively loose or wishy-washy, but it should not be so tight that if you were to hold your racket in a neutral shakehand grip, which I recommend, your racket could not be removed from your hand by anyone needing (how do I say this?) excessive pressure to take it from your hand.

Tightening your grip shortly before and upon contact will impart more power to your stroke, but tightening the grip at the beginning of your backswing will inhibit the amount of acceleration you would otherwise gain from the acceleration of your arm.  And this will inhibit the amount of poop you could expect from your loop.  

G'day, Tassie52.


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/08/2017 at 9:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 9:28pm
Enjoyed the video and gave it a thumbs up on YouTube.

The grip is relaxed until impact with specific pressure applied by the index fingeron the FH. On the backhand it would be the thumb and index finger. This is something I am working on. It improves speed and touching rewarding spin and ball velocity. What was not mentioned is that the motion (the whole body) should be accelerating through the impact. Not easy, but with practice it becomes more natural.

Edited by richrf - 10/08/2017 at 9:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2017 at 11:57pm
Excellent video! Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 8:21pm
Did berndt_mann just say "poop from your loop"  LOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Did berndt_mann just say "poop from your loop"  LOLLOLLOL


berndt is so modest lets see if he shows his playing in yt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Did berndt_mann just say "poop from your loop"  LOLLOLLOL


berndt is so modest lets see if he shows his playing in yt

Yo bbkon,

You're 100% right on about my modesty thing.  I am so modest, unassuming and humble that teddy bears, puppies, pussycats and fluffy little bunnies all adore me.

Unfortunately I don't have any videos to show you of my peerless looping 1970s technique and equally wonderful topspinning technique with a hardbat against underspin, as their were no affordable computers and no Internet or YouTube back then and I couldn't afford a prehistoric videocam.

But you can watch and eat your heart out admiring my graceful fh and bh chopping with (imagine that!) a clipboard against the ageless and picture perfect forehand of the late Marty Reisman who was also playing with a clipboard.  I even managed to suprise Mr. Reisman with a sharply angled crosscourt forehand drive, leaving him to mutter "how'd he do that?"

Well Hell's bells and the Dardanelles, bbkon.  I looked up the International Clipboard Table Tennis Association YouTube video on www.hardbat.com and I couldn't bring it up.  So I guess you're just gonna have to take my modest word for my clipboard defensive abilities.

Eureka!  The YouTube Clip, 1:52 long, featuring Tahl Leibovitz, Al Papp, Marty Reisman and myself practicing, all using clipboards, is entitled Official Clipboard Table Tennis.  This video was taken before the 11-point game came into effect, and Reisman and I were practicing from about 1:30 to 1:52.  I also kept score during the Leibovitz-Papp match, and scorekeeping was backwards, going from 21-21 to 0.  

You oughta try clippong sometime, bbkon.  Whether you are an attacker or a defender, clippong is definitely going to keep you humble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNJfDIpoU8


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/11/2017 at 6:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

...

Yo bbkon,

You're 100% right on about my modesty thing.  I am so modest, unassuming and humble that teddy bears, puppies, pussycats and fluffy little bunnies all adore me.

Unfortunately I don't have any videos to show you of my peerless looping 1970s technique and equally wonderful topspinning technique with a hardbat against underspin, as their were no affordable computers and no Internet or YouTube back then and I couldn't afford a prehistoric videocam.

But you can watch and eat your heart out admiring my graceful fh and bh chopping with (imagine that!) a clipboard against the ageless and picture perfect forehand of the late Marty Reisman who was also playing with a clipboard.  I even managed to suprise Mr. Reisman with a sharply angled crosscourt forehand drive, leaving him to mutter "how'd he do that?"

Well Hell's bells and the Dardanelles, bbkon.  I looked up the International Clipboard Table Tennis Association YouTube video on www.hardbat.com and I couldn't bring it up.  So I guess you're just gonna have to take my modest word for my clipboard defensive abilities.

Eureka!  The YouTube Clip, 1:52 long, featuring Tahl Leibovitz, Al Papp, Marty Reisman and myself practicing, all using clipboards, is entitled Official Clipboard Table Tennis.  This video was taken before the 11-point game came into effect, and Reisman and I were practicing from about 1:30 to 1:52.  I also kept score during the Leibovitz-Papp match, and scorekeeping was backwards, going from 21-21 to 0.  

You oughta try clippong sometime, bbkon.  Whether you are an attacker or a defender, clippong is definitely going to keep you humble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNJfDIpoU8

Ummm - THAT clip is of Larry Hodges playing Rob Trudell. None of people mentioned above, unfortunately. Well played... Clap


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 8:00pm
Ummm, pgpg.  Let's try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHvb-O3XPE4 instead.  Wrong URL.  Censored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 8:24pm
"Berndt is a certified ICBTTA scorekeeper." LOL

so is that you playing reisman at 1min28s?


Edited by fatt - 10/11/2017 at 8:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

"Berndt is a certified ICBTTA scorekeeper." LOL

so is that you playing reisman at 1min28s?

Yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 9:34pm
Good stuff Berndt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Good stuff Berndt!

Thanks, fatt.  It's tough to make a case for the defense in twenty-three seconds, but I tried to give it my best shots at the time; I was around sixty, Marty seventy-two, forehand and backhand chops plus the one forehand crosscourt clipdrive that flummoxed Reisman.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

...

Yo bbkon,

You're 100% right on about my modesty thing.  I am so modest, unassuming and humble that teddy bears, puppies, pussycats and fluffy little bunnies all adore me.

Unfortunately I don't have any videos to show you of my peerless looping 1970s technique and equally wonderful topspinning technique with a hardbat against underspin, as their were no affordable computers and no Internet or YouTube back then and I couldn't afford a prehistoric videocam.

But you can watch and eat your heart out admiring my graceful fh and bh chopping with (imagine that!) a clipboard against the ageless and picture perfect forehand of the late Marty Reisman who was also playing with a clipboard.  I even managed to suprise Mr. Reisman with a sharply angled crosscourt forehand drive, leaving him to mutter "how'd he do that?"

Well Hell's bells and the Dardanelles, bbkon.  I looked up the International Clipboard Table Tennis Association YouTube video on www.hardbat.com and I couldn't bring it up.  So I guess you're just gonna have to take my modest word for my clipboard defensive abilities.

Eureka!  The YouTube Clip, 1:52 long, featuring Tahl Leibovitz, Al Papp, Marty Reisman and myself practicing, all using clipboards, is entitled Official Clipboard Table Tennis.  This video was taken before the 11-point game came into effect, and Reisman and I were practicing from about 1:30 to 1:52.  I also kept score during the Leibovitz-Papp match, and scorekeeping was backwards, going from 21-21 to 0.  

You oughta try clippong sometime, bbkon.  Whether you are an attacker or a defender, clippong is definitely going to keep you humble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNJfDIpoU8





Ummm - THAT clip is of Larry Hodges playing Rob Trudell. None of people mentioned above, unfortunately. Well played... Clap




eat my heart watching you? nope it wont work with me. keep making rhymes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 5:47pm
(bbkon)  
eat my heart watching you? nope it wont work with me. keep making rhymes

I offered you a chance
To have yourself a glance
Of me on YouTube playing tt.

No loops 'gainst underspin,
Just chops 'gainst mighty Reisman.

But I screwed up the URL;
Pgpg got Hodges and Trudell,
But I straightened that out
In another post
As you can tell.

You need not eat your heart;
That you needn't even start.

And whether you watch or not
I'll sleep quite well.

The ball's now in your court.
Have you ever played any sport
Such as tt that we can watch on YouTube?
(Well?)





Edited by berndt_mann - 10/13/2017 at 5:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

(bbkon)  <br style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">eat my heart watching you? nope it wont work with me. keep making rhymes</span>

I offered you a chance
To have yourself a glance
Of me on YouTube playing tt.

No loops 'gainst underspin,
Just chops 'gainst mighty Reisman.

But I screwed up the URL;
Pgpg got Hodges and Trudell,
But I straightened that out
In another post
As you can tell.

You need not eat your heart;
That you needn't even start.

And whether you watch or not
I'll sleep quite well.

The ball's now in your court.
Have you ever played any sport
Such as tt that we can watch on YouTube?
(Well?)

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>




can you make it in a rap version?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 8:20pm
I had the impression this was a thread about looping underspin. Either that naive impression was wrong or it has been derailed.

Yep. Just checked. Looping underspin. So maybe we can "re-rail" it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 9:01pm
We could always invite "The World's Greatest Athlete" and S-Jan to join the party... they got a lot to say about underspin among other things. :D

Edited by BH-Man - 10/13/2017 at 9:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 9:06pm
I have endlessly tried to get adult players to understand that power transfer comes from a SEQUENCE of engaging muscles while being LOOSE... just like dude describes from 1:30 onwards. I see so many adults try to macho man crush kill with primal urges using primarily the upper back/shoulders... it just ruins the timing and power transfer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 9:10pm
Sure, Baal.  Nyet problemo.

Way back in the '70s I was a cool young dude.
Could loop underspin like crazy when I was in the mood.

My stroke was word up, my technique right on
And when I looped that sucker man, that puppy was gone!

But that was in the day of the 38 ball,
And looping underspin wasn't hard at all.

But now you got 56 kinds of 40+
If you can loop underspin, you're one lucky cuss.

Yeah back in my day I had my Bengtsson blade,
Mark V rubber, had it made in the shade.

And now you've got these monstrosities;
Give us back the 38, oh please please please.




Edited by berndt_mann - 10/13/2017 at 9:24pm
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