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    Posted: 10/19/2017 at 8:23pm
(Tassie52)  Australian cats have better things to do with their time.

Cats on the rooftops, cats on the tiles,
Cats with the clap and the crabs and the piles.
Cats with their butts all wreathed in smiles
As they revel in the throes of fornication.

Good on them.  Arizonan cats, at least the feral Tucsonan toms, spend their nights quite pleasantly too, marking their territory with cat pee and shagging every Sheila cat within range.  Nothing like hoisting a brewski or seven at the Wreck bar on N. 4th St. (no dogs allowed). and after that it's Katie bar the door!


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/20/2017 at 6:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 8:14pm
G'day, Tassie.

Perhaps back in 1994, the last time I had a Victoria Bitter when bellying up to the tiny bar at the Pacific Hotel in Melbourne, the quality of the stuff I quaffed was rather better than the unspeakable swill of today you describe.  Are you sure you're not talking about Foster's?

Or perhaps my taste buds were corrupted by the copious amounts of Spinny Top speed glue with which I marinated my Schildkrot V-Max on my brace of Brendling blades.  Or it might have been a sneaking liking for Rolling Rock, which at Dick's Den, my dive of choice in the 1970s, cost a whopping 35 cents a bottle.  

Or maybe it might have been the red carpet greeting that I and my doubles partner for the 1994 World Vets, Frank Glover, received as we were walking down Bourke Street our first night Down Under.  A couple of teen agers driving towards us, in a cheerful mood and obviously pissed (could it have been too many Victoria Bitters?), recognizing us somehow as non-Ozzies (Mr. Glover was a black gentleman), yelled out of the front and back windows of their vehicle "Welcome to Ozztraylyuh, mytes!"  After which the bloke in the front window proceeded to barf all over Bourke.  Frank turned to me and said, "Wow, this is just like Dee-troit!"

At any rate, Tassie, I only gave VB an honorable mention, and my honorable mentions were listed in no particular order of drinkabilty.  

If I can find some Nimbus at Fry's Grocery, the closest beer selling establishment to where I presently live, I'd send you a bottle or two just to have your feinschmecker opinion.  It does indeed taste like mule piss, as I posted to FdT, but high class mule piss, as mules whose piss is used as one of the ingredients for this unique local brew are fed nothing but the finest organic buffelgrass.


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/19/2017 at 10:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

When I can find it, Arrogant Bastard Ale.  No. 2, Great Lakes Burning River (can't find it in Tucson).  Honorable mention:  Victoria Bitters, Guinness Draught, McEwan's, Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, Celebrator, San Miguel Dark and Arizona's own Kiltlifter.

Nimbus, brewed in Tucson, tastes like mule piss, but good, good!
And here comes a rant...

Seriously?  Seriously?  You expect us to take you seriously when you have VICTORIA BITTER on your list?  VICTORIA BITTER??????  Quite frankly, sir, you have gone down considerably in my estimation.  I can cope with your endless griping about the state of table tennis, but i cannot, will not take you seriously if you think VB deserves a place on any list other than a list of beers to be avoided at all costs.

Victoria Bitter's list of crimes against humanity is too horrendous to contemplate, let alone publish in a public forum.  It is uninteresting, unpalatable, unbelievably boring, devoid of any features which would make it noteworthy - apart from one small thing: VB is one of Australia's top three commercial lagers.  Until recently it was the highest selling beer in the country, purchased at the rate of about 1 slab every two seconds.  Commercial tripe.  It is churned out in such gigantic amounts that it doesn't have time to pick up any taste. 

(The rumours that it is produced by cats squatting over the bottles are untrue.  Australian cats have better things to do with their time.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Screw the ITTF!</span><div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Now you're talking.  Have a Molson's."<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">oh no no no no no, Ive tried that and it tastes like donkey piss (Not that I know how donkey piss really tastes like)<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">However, Innis & Gunn is more my thing! what's yours?<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">FdT

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; font-size: 10px;"></span>


When I can find it, Arrogant Bastard Ale.  No. 2, Great Lakes Burning River (can't find it in Tucson).  Honorable mention:  Victoria Bitters, Guinness Draught, McEwan's, Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, Celebrator, San Miguel Dark and Arizona's own Kiltlifter.

Nimbus, brewed in Tucson, tastes like mule piss, but good, good!





Berndt see if they sell Saint Arnold's in Tucson. Brewed in Houston. You won't regret it if you share my taste for German styles of beer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 6:34pm
The resemblance is robust which is why I react.

His next post? "Am lookink for Moose and Squirrel".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

ITTF will laugh at you, especially since there is no evidence at all that what you will propose will have the effects you seem to want. 

Baal, Igor acts like a bot created in the same Russian troll farm that gave the US all those wonderful divisive messages on social media before the election (and after). 

Only difference is that Igor's trolling is a bit too obvious. Not worth replying to any of those posts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 4:42pm
"When I can find it, Arrogant Bastard Ale.  No. 2, Great Lakes Burning River (can't find it in Tucson).  Honorable mention:  Victoria Bitters, Guiness Draught, McEwan's, Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, Celebrator, San Miguel Dark and Arizona's own Kiltlifter.

Nimbus, brewed in Tucson, tastes like mule piss, but good, good!"

I'll keep an eye out for any of those names. I think the only one I may have seen on the shelf is the Kiltlifter....oh of course Guinness which is darn good!!. Great names! LOL

Cheers!

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"Screw the ITTF!

Now you're talking.  Have a Molson's."

oh no no no no no, Ive tried that and it tastes like donkey piss (Not that I know how donkey piss really tastes like)
However, Innis & Gunn is more my thing! what's yours?

FdT


When I can find it, Arrogant Bastard Ale.  No. 2, Great Lakes Burning River (can't find it in Tucson).  Honorable mention:  Victoria Bitters, Guinness Draught, McEwan's, Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, Celebrator, San Miguel Dark and Arizona's own Kiltlifter.

Nimbus, brewed in Tucson, tastes like mule piss, but good, good!


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/19/2017 at 4:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 12:25pm
ITTF will laugh at you, especially since there is no evidence at all that what you will propose will have the effects you seem to want. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 11:44am
   TWO BIRDS KILLED AT ONCE ....

just reduce the rubber total thickness to a smaller size, say 3.5 mm, and all booster disappear from the sport once and for all. Once and for all.
Again, by doing so, we keel two birds with one stone:
1. NO boosters any more +
2. a better controllable play, many prolonged rallies to please the public.
Again, the thinner limits it is the most economical solution of the "booster problem"
It will cost Nothing !!!
It will cost Nothing !!!
And it is easy to apply for any table tennis event.   

AFTERWORD..
I'm going to be insisting and persuade ITTF into adopting the idea for some ITTF events. It is the very opportunity not to be missed, it looks so hopeful.       
   TOKYO 2020, free of human doping, free of chemical boosters. I hope so much.      
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 10:39am
"Screw the ITTF!

Now you're talking.  Have a Molson's."

oh no no no no no, Ive tried that and it tastes like donkey piss (Not that I know how donkey piss really tastes like)
However, Innis & Gunn is more my thing! what's yours?

FdT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 1:42am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening."</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Clap</span>ClapClap

That would be the REASONABLE thing to do. However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable. Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER. Boosting would be counter productive in their minds. Screw the ITTF!

FdT
This is equivalent to letting things as is: to make sure bad chemicals are out of the playing field, Enez like machine will be around and what people do now will still pass because the manufacturers do it at the same level.
This is one of the best example of how solid and embarrassing a status quo can be. I don't see a change ahead; why?
I won't blame ITTF though; I want them to succeed. In a fast evolving field they evolve themselves as we go and stay afloat. We still have a pro tour, wttc, og and wc that we can watch live, with results that nobody can dispute.




dont know how are they gonna test a blade with rakza 9 that smell heavily boosted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening."

ClapClapClap

That would be the REASONABLE thing to do. However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable. Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER. Boosting would be counter productive in their minds. Screw the ITTF!

FdT
This is equivalent to letting things as is: to make sure bad chemicals are out of the playing field, Enez like machine will be around and what people do now will still pass because the manufacturers do it at the same level.
This is one of the best example of how solid and embarrassing a status quo can be. I don't see a change ahead; why?
I won't blame ITTF though; I want them to succeed. In a fast evolving field they evolve themselves as we go and stay afloat. We still have a pro tour, wttc, og and wc that we can watch live, with results that nobody can dispute.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 6:29pm
(Fulanodetal)  That (permitting boosting oils) would be the REASONABLE thing to do.

What!!!???

However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable.

The ITTF has been nothing but unreasonable since its founding 91 years ago.

 Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER.

Not sure if the ITTF actually has an agenda.  But if they do have an agenda, and the agenda is to make tt slower than the NASCAR race it presently is, you might see a few more guys and gals who can get away with chopping without getting boosted into eternity.


 Boosting would be counter productive in their minds.

The ITTF doesn't give a flying furry three-cornered corncob pipe of a bleep about boosting one way or another.  Hell, a lot of the rubbers the pros use are already factory boosted, and the pros go ahead and megaboost them with boosting oils anyway.  

 Screw the ITTF!

Now you're talking.  Have a Molson's.


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/18/2017 at 6:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 4:01pm
I doubt that the rubber manufacturers and retailers want the ITTF to make boosters legal. They'd much prefer that you have to frequently replace your factory boosted Tensor or Tenergy. If boosters are allowed, you get much more life out of the rubber and can make cheap rubbers play well. Thus the phony rule to guilt people into believing only the "factory" can boost.

Edited by the_theologian - 10/18/2017 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 9:44am
"I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening."

ClapClapClap

That would be the REASONABLE thing to do. However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable. Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER. Boosting would be counter productive in their minds. Screw the ITTF!

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 9:39am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The following is probably not feasible because the costs it would incur to implement it would not bring any special benefit for the public, those who finance the show. I'll break down the process in 2 possibilities and for the sake of the example we'll say it will apply to all pro tours and above (wttc, wc, og and also regional international competition) and that for any given competition, 5 assembled blades are enough but the players may send only one set if they want (ITTF can charge per blade, like $0 for the 1st one and $25 for any additional one):

1) the players send ITTF the bare blades and uncut, unopened sheets they will need for the whole tournament no less than 2 weeks before the competition starts (no more than a month?) and tell what glue they use (a limited number of brands will be available and the brand will have to pay to be one of them and provide the glue; spots are sold in auction before each event).
2) ITTF tests blades and opened rubbers for VOC and keeps them in custody.
3) Right before the competition, all players are put in a room controlled by ITTF inspectors and players do their glue job using the glue provided by ITTF. Then ITTF places the blades in a lock box with 2 locks, one controlled by the player and the other by the ITTF.
4) Before each match the umpire brings the box that is already 1/2 opened and the player can open his lock.
5) After the match, the blade is placed back into the box right before the player has put his lock back and the box remains under ITTF control.
6) At the end of the competition, the player takes it all home (but the box).

The 2nd possibility is the same than the 1st one except ITTF buys the sheets and blades for the player.

I can't imagine any system where ITTF does the gluing job. At most if the players want, an ITTF official master gluer Wink can be hired for an additional fee per blade and does the job with the player watching.

It is just for the sake of imagining something fair where no boosting is involved and cheating is controlled to a manageable level. Of course it all assumes ITTF is fair and will NEVER temper with the process.

I see more revenue for the ITTF also a management nightmare but with software and good organisational skills, I imagine TT playing project managers would have fun volunteering Tongue.








Wouldn't it just be a lot easier to end the ban boosters, or perhaps let ITTF approve a set of them for safety and just be done with this? They can continue to test for thickness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 9:31am
YET ANOTHER 'BRAINSTORMING SESSION'...    

ITTF Executive Committee had its last meeting 23 September in Sweden, held closed for mass media. And they decided how to proceed about the boosting poblems.

At present time, there are several possible apparatus to detect oil materials incorporated to sponge, or to measure actual resilience of the sponge.
However, some EC officials do support the idea of free-for-all boosting provided it is harmless for player's health.

Looking forward to hear some more news from the meeting.

http://biblehub.com/luke/8-17.htm
“For nothing is hidden that shall not become evident, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light."
"For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open."

https://www.ittf.com/directory/officials/#ec

Edited by igorponger - 10/16/2017 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote man_iii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 5:30am
I agree with fatt with ITTF making the equipment purchase and glue purchase and controlling the racket -within the tournament with 2-lock box. Clap Thumbs Up

I volunteer as tribute! To becomr the Master Gluer for ITTF so I get to meet ML XX WCT FZD etc :-D


Edited by man_iii - 10/16/2017 at 5:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ssmilk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 2:53am
does boost really helpful?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2017 at 1:14am
Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

Force everyone to play with off the shelf rubber. (So force hurricane to make nat rubbers widely available.)

Make boosters legal.

Chill.

(Is there any doubt that ittf doesn’t fully support the status quo?   The solution is so painfully simple that they would have gone for it 100x over if they wanted to.)


There is a rule like that in professional cycling. Supposedly you can buy a bike identical to any that is ridden in tbe Tour de France if you have about $15-20 k.

Of course supposedly we have that rule now in ITTF. The rubbers on the LARC are supposed to be all the same as what ITTF tests.

I like this recommendation anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2017 at 12:20am
Only sandpaper bats?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 11:33pm
Force everyone to play with off the shelf rubber. (So force hurricane to make nat rubbers widely available.)

Make boosters legal.

Chill.

(Is there any doubt that ittf doesn’t fully support the status quo?   The solution is so painfully simple that they would have gone for it 100x over if they wanted to.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The following is probably not feasible...

Probably not Wink

But it would work. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 4:11pm
The following is probably not feasible because the costs it would incur to implement it would not bring any special benefit for the public, those who finance the show. I'll break down the process in 2 possibilities and for the sake of the example we'll say it will apply to all pro tours and above (wttc, wc, og and also regional international competition) and that for any given competition, 5 assembled blades are enough but the players may send only one set if they want (ITTF can charge per blade, like $0 for the 1st one and $25 for any additional one):

1) the players send ITTF the bare blades and uncut, unopened sheets they will need for the whole tournament no less than 2 weeks before the competition starts (no more than a month?) and tell what glue they use (a limited number of brands will be available and the brand will have to pay to be one of them and provide the glue; spots are sold in auction before each event).
2) ITTF tests blades and opened rubbers for VOC and keeps them in custody.
3) Right before the competition, all players are put in a room controlled by ITTF inspectors and players do their glue job using the glue provided by ITTF. Then ITTF places the blades in a lock box with 2 locks, one controlled by the player and the other by the ITTF.
4) Before each match the umpire brings the box that is already 1/2 opened and the player can open his lock.
5) After the match, the blade is placed back into the box right before the player has put his lock back and the box remains under ITTF control.
6) At the end of the competition, the player takes it all home (but the box).

The 2nd possibility is the same than the 1st one except ITTF buys the sheets and blades for the player.

I can't imagine any system where ITTF does the gluing job. At most if the players want, an ITTF official master gluer Wink can be hired for an additional fee per blade and does the job with the player watching.

It is just for the sake of imagining something fair where no boosting is involved and cheating is controlled to a manageable level. Of course it all assumes ITTF is fair and will NEVER temper with the process.

I see more revenue for the ITTF also a management nightmare but with software and good organisational skills, I imagine TT playing project managers would have fun volunteering Tongue.





Edited by fatt - 10/15/2017 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote neon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 3:03pm
Hi friends, rubbers have enough boosters in. Must boosting glue! Sapienti sat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 8:14pm
Boosted setups are detected because the rubber gets too thick and not by VOCs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

I wouldn't put it like that. When they test for VOC they don't care what kind of boosting and who did it.

But when manufacturers do it it is way easier for them to design the rubber in such a way that the booster is "trapped" inside the rubber so that VOC doesn't leak out and trigger the sensor. After-purchase boosting is not capable of that so the players who boost the rubbers themselves would get caught...

Most of the boosters contain such low VOCs, that they're not detectable.
My point about legality is, that it's perfectly legal for the manufacturer to modify the rubber properties with a booster (either during or after the manufacturing process), yet it's not legal for a player to modify it. This does create an unfair playing field.

I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 10:46am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Yes that's exactly right.
Also don't forget that boosting is perfectly legal if it's done by the manufacturer, so good luck to them trying to distinguish between the two.


I wouldn't put it like that. When they test for VOC they don't care what kind of boosting and who did it.

But when manufacturers do it it is way easier for them to design the rubber in such a way that the booster is "trapped" inside the rubber so that VOC doesn't leak out and trigger the sensor. After-purchase boosting is not capable of that so the players who boost the rubbers themselves would get caught...


What is your facts on this ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 10:44am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Yes that's exactly right.
Also don't forget that boosting is perfectly legal if it's done by the manufacturer, so good luck to them trying to distinguish between the two.


I wouldn't put it like that. When they test for VOC they don't care what kind of boosting and who did it.

But when manufacturers do it it is way easier for them to design the rubber in such a way that the booster is "trapped" inside the rubber so that VOC doesn't leak out and trigger the sensor. After-purchase boosting is not capable of that so the players who boost the rubbers themselves would get caught...
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