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    Posted: 10/12/2017 at 7:50pm
Since boosting is illegal and we all know H3 needs to be boosted do you think Japan and the Olympic committee will find a way to test for boosters before the Olympics come?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:05pm
No because that would be the ITTF that takes care of that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:11pm
Yes that's exactly right.
Also don't forget that boosting is perfectly legal if it's done by the manufacturer, so good luck to them trying to distinguish between the two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:15pm
Look up the bounce test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:38pm
Japan has been trying to get ITTF to change the current testing and rules. I think the Olympics give them some leverage now.

Edited by jpenmaster - 10/12/2017 at 10:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Look up the bounce test.


whats the point if a butterfly worker boost mizutani's rubbers anyway he has an advantage ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 2:17am
What I know from an undisputable source is that Butterfly prepares the rubbers for Timo and similar celebrities
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 4:01am
Boosting rules such as they are now is a joke (sorry) but it just give people with factory backing the opportuinity to boost which other (normal) humans does not have. You either have to completly ban boosting or make some sort of boosting legal (I really don't care which one it is, I'm happy with my H3Neo without boosting, I just need to boost my hip a bit more)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 4:31am
Originally posted by Kolev Kolev wrote:

What I know from an undisputable source is that Butterfly prepares the rubbers for Timo and similar celebrities


its unfair that japanese have the best available rubbers. do you think that mizutani could play the same way with comercial off the shelf tenergy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 9:49am
boosting should be made legal. put an end to the madness. (I know I know, Im not referring to preboosted rubbers, although it seems the ITTF has made moves to ban those as well)

boosters are widely available, if you really want to use 'em, so it's NOT a matter of leveling the playing field.

FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 10/13/2017 at 9:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 10:44am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Yes that's exactly right.
Also don't forget that boosting is perfectly legal if it's done by the manufacturer, so good luck to them trying to distinguish between the two.


I wouldn't put it like that. When they test for VOC they don't care what kind of boosting and who did it.

But when manufacturers do it it is way easier for them to design the rubber in such a way that the booster is "trapped" inside the rubber so that VOC doesn't leak out and trigger the sensor. After-purchase boosting is not capable of that so the players who boost the rubbers themselves would get caught...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 10:46am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Yes that's exactly right.
Also don't forget that boosting is perfectly legal if it's done by the manufacturer, so good luck to them trying to distinguish between the two.


I wouldn't put it like that. When they test for VOC they don't care what kind of boosting and who did it.

But when manufacturers do it it is way easier for them to design the rubber in such a way that the booster is "trapped" inside the rubber so that VOC doesn't leak out and trigger the sensor. After-purchase boosting is not capable of that so the players who boost the rubbers themselves would get caught...


What is your facts on this ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

I wouldn't put it like that. When they test for VOC they don't care what kind of boosting and who did it.

But when manufacturers do it it is way easier for them to design the rubber in such a way that the booster is "trapped" inside the rubber so that VOC doesn't leak out and trigger the sensor. After-purchase boosting is not capable of that so the players who boost the rubbers themselves would get caught...

Most of the boosters contain such low VOCs, that they're not detectable.
My point about legality is, that it's perfectly legal for the manufacturer to modify the rubber properties with a booster (either during or after the manufacturing process), yet it's not legal for a player to modify it. This does create an unfair playing field.

I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2017 at 8:14pm
Boosted setups are detected because the rubber gets too thick and not by VOCs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote neon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 3:03pm
Hi friends, rubbers have enough boosters in. Must boosting glue! Sapienti sat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 4:11pm
The following is probably not feasible because the costs it would incur to implement it would not bring any special benefit for the public, those who finance the show. I'll break down the process in 2 possibilities and for the sake of the example we'll say it will apply to all pro tours and above (wttc, wc, og and also regional international competition) and that for any given competition, 5 assembled blades are enough but the players may send only one set if they want (ITTF can charge per blade, like $0 for the 1st one and $25 for any additional one):

1) the players send ITTF the bare blades and uncut, unopened sheets they will need for the whole tournament no less than 2 weeks before the competition starts (no more than a month?) and tell what glue they use (a limited number of brands will be available and the brand will have to pay to be one of them and provide the glue; spots are sold in auction before each event).
2) ITTF tests blades and opened rubbers for VOC and keeps them in custody.
3) Right before the competition, all players are put in a room controlled by ITTF inspectors and players do their glue job using the glue provided by ITTF. Then ITTF places the blades in a lock box with 2 locks, one controlled by the player and the other by the ITTF.
4) Before each match the umpire brings the box that is already 1/2 opened and the player can open his lock.
5) After the match, the blade is placed back into the box right before the player has put his lock back and the box remains under ITTF control.
6) At the end of the competition, the player takes it all home (but the box).

The 2nd possibility is the same than the 1st one except ITTF buys the sheets and blades for the player.

I can't imagine any system where ITTF does the gluing job. At most if the players want, an ITTF official master gluer Wink can be hired for an additional fee per blade and does the job with the player watching.

It is just for the sake of imagining something fair where no boosting is involved and cheating is controlled to a manageable level. Of course it all assumes ITTF is fair and will NEVER temper with the process.

I see more revenue for the ITTF also a management nightmare but with software and good organisational skills, I imagine TT playing project managers would have fun volunteering Tongue.





Edited by fatt - 10/15/2017 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The following is probably not feasible...

Probably not Wink

But it would work. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 11:33pm
Force everyone to play with off the shelf rubber. (So force hurricane to make nat rubbers widely available.)

Make boosters legal.

Chill.

(Is there any doubt that ittf doesn’t fully support the status quo?   The solution is so painfully simple that they would have gone for it 100x over if they wanted to.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2017 at 12:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2017 at 1:14am
Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

Force everyone to play with off the shelf rubber. (So force hurricane to make nat rubbers widely available.)

Make boosters legal.

Chill.

(Is there any doubt that ittf doesn’t fully support the status quo?   The solution is so painfully simple that they would have gone for it 100x over if they wanted to.)


There is a rule like that in professional cycling. Supposedly you can buy a bike identical to any that is ridden in tbe Tour de France if you have about $15-20 k.

Of course supposedly we have that rule now in ITTF. The rubbers on the LARC are supposed to be all the same as what ITTF tests.

I like this recommendation anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ssmilk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 2:53am
does boost really helpful?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote man_iii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 5:30am
I agree with fatt with ITTF making the equipment purchase and glue purchase and controlling the racket -within the tournament with 2-lock box. Clap Thumbs Up

I volunteer as tribute! To becomr the Master Gluer for ITTF so I get to meet ML XX WCT FZD etc :-D


Edited by man_iii - 10/16/2017 at 5:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 9:31am
YET ANOTHER 'BRAINSTORMING SESSION'...    

ITTF Executive Committee had its last meeting 23 September in Sweden, held closed for mass media. And they decided how to proceed about the boosting poblems.

At present time, there are several possible apparatus to detect oil materials incorporated to sponge, or to measure actual resilience of the sponge.
However, some EC officials do support the idea of free-for-all boosting provided it is harmless for player's health.

Looking forward to hear some more news from the meeting.

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Edited by igorponger - 10/16/2017 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 9:39am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The following is probably not feasible because the costs it would incur to implement it would not bring any special benefit for the public, those who finance the show. I'll break down the process in 2 possibilities and for the sake of the example we'll say it will apply to all pro tours and above (wttc, wc, og and also regional international competition) and that for any given competition, 5 assembled blades are enough but the players may send only one set if they want (ITTF can charge per blade, like $0 for the 1st one and $25 for any additional one):

1) the players send ITTF the bare blades and uncut, unopened sheets they will need for the whole tournament no less than 2 weeks before the competition starts (no more than a month?) and tell what glue they use (a limited number of brands will be available and the brand will have to pay to be one of them and provide the glue; spots are sold in auction before each event).
2) ITTF tests blades and opened rubbers for VOC and keeps them in custody.
3) Right before the competition, all players are put in a room controlled by ITTF inspectors and players do their glue job using the glue provided by ITTF. Then ITTF places the blades in a lock box with 2 locks, one controlled by the player and the other by the ITTF.
4) Before each match the umpire brings the box that is already 1/2 opened and the player can open his lock.
5) After the match, the blade is placed back into the box right before the player has put his lock back and the box remains under ITTF control.
6) At the end of the competition, the player takes it all home (but the box).

The 2nd possibility is the same than the 1st one except ITTF buys the sheets and blades for the player.

I can't imagine any system where ITTF does the gluing job. At most if the players want, an ITTF official master gluer Wink can be hired for an additional fee per blade and does the job with the player watching.

It is just for the sake of imagining something fair where no boosting is involved and cheating is controlled to a manageable level. Of course it all assumes ITTF is fair and will NEVER temper with the process.

I see more revenue for the ITTF also a management nightmare but with software and good organisational skills, I imagine TT playing project managers would have fun volunteering Tongue.








Wouldn't it just be a lot easier to end the ban boosters, or perhaps let ITTF approve a set of them for safety and just be done with this? They can continue to test for thickness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 9:44am
"I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening."

ClapClapClap

That would be the REASONABLE thing to do. However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable. Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER. Boosting would be counter productive in their minds. Screw the ITTF!

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 4:01pm
I doubt that the rubber manufacturers and retailers want the ITTF to make boosters legal. They'd much prefer that you have to frequently replace your factory boosted Tensor or Tenergy. If boosters are allowed, you get much more life out of the rubber and can make cheap rubbers play well. Thus the phony rule to guilt people into believing only the "factory" can boost.

Edited by the_theologian - 10/18/2017 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 6:29pm
(Fulanodetal)  That (permitting boosting oils) would be the REASONABLE thing to do.

What!!!???

However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable.

The ITTF has been nothing but unreasonable since its founding 91 years ago.

 Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER.

Not sure if the ITTF actually has an agenda.  But if they do have an agenda, and the agenda is to make tt slower than the NASCAR race it presently is, you might see a few more guys and gals who can get away with chopping without getting boosted into eternity.


 Boosting would be counter productive in their minds.

The ITTF doesn't give a flying furry three-cornered corncob pipe of a bleep about boosting one way or another.  Hell, a lot of the rubbers the pros use are already factory boosted, and the pros go ahead and megaboost them with boosting oils anyway.  

 Screw the ITTF!

Now you're talking.  Have a Molson's.


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/18/2017 at 6:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening."

ClapClapClap

That would be the REASONABLE thing to do. However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable. Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER. Boosting would be counter productive in their minds. Screw the ITTF!

FdT
This is equivalent to letting things as is: to make sure bad chemicals are out of the playing field, Enez like machine will be around and what people do now will still pass because the manufacturers do it at the same level.
This is one of the best example of how solid and embarrassing a status quo can be. I don't see a change ahead; why?
I won't blame ITTF though; I want them to succeed. In a fast evolving field they evolve themselves as we go and stay afloat. We still have a pro tour, wttc, og and wc that we can watch live, with results that nobody can dispute.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 1:42am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I agree with making it legal, but only if the booster poses no health risk. We don't want people using nasty chemicals out there. The only way this can happen is if the ITTF needs to approves boosters, so that they can confirm that it's safe. I can't see that happening."</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Clap</span>ClapClap

That would be the REASONABLE thing to do. However, the ITTF is anything BUT reasonable. Their agenda is to make the sport SLOWER. Boosting would be counter productive in their minds. Screw the ITTF!

FdT
This is equivalent to letting things as is: to make sure bad chemicals are out of the playing field, Enez like machine will be around and what people do now will still pass because the manufacturers do it at the same level.
This is one of the best example of how solid and embarrassing a status quo can be. I don't see a change ahead; why?
I won't blame ITTF though; I want them to succeed. In a fast evolving field they evolve themselves as we go and stay afloat. We still have a pro tour, wttc, og and wc that we can watch live, with results that nobody can dispute.




dont know how are they gonna test a blade with rakza 9 that smell heavily boosted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 10:39am
"Screw the ITTF!

Now you're talking.  Have a Molson's."

oh no no no no no, Ive tried that and it tastes like donkey piss (Not that I know how donkey piss really tastes like)
However, Innis & Gunn is more my thing! what's yours?

FdT

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