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Butterfly Quality? DISGUSTING!

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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 1:42am
Ross Leidy uses joint kiri for core as well.





http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46506



Ross's answer, plus fatt's reaction.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53186&PID=729131&title=rapscallion-by-ross-leidy#729131

Feel disgusted and cheated, folks.

Edited by zeio - 10/22/2017 at 1:43am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 2:24am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I still think a blade that costs $200 and over should have core and plies not made out of pieces.

I tend to agree, or at the very least that the outer ply must be one piece. Sure, we may have some of the experts say it makes no difference, or it's just aesthetics, but this is simply their opinion (which I do respect but this does not make it a fact). I find it hard to believe that if the ball bounces on the joint, or on two different pieces of wood, that it makes no difference at all.
On the inner layers the impact of the ball is spread wider, so it may indeed make no noticable difference, but on the outer ply I don't think it's acceptable to have more than one piece.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 4:33am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I still think a blade that costs $200 and over should have core and plies not made out of pieces.

I tend to agree, or at the very least that the outer ply must be one piece. Sure, we may have some of the experts say it makes no difference, or it's just aesthetics, but this is simply their opinion (which I do respect but this does not make it a fact). I find it hard to believe that if the ball bounces on the joint, or on two different pieces of wood, that it makes no difference at all.
On the inner layers the impact of the ball is spread wider, so it may indeed make no noticable difference, but on the outer ply I don't think it's acceptable to have more than one piece.


The experts  (Nexy/BTY engineers, etc) you're questioning actually spent countless hours studying blade design and its effect on ball bounce, general play, etc. And yet, you don't like their conclusions because you do not understand how they arrived at them, hence they are not a fact. wtf. 

Just admit you're buying blades because of their looks - it would be far more intellectually honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S c o t t 6 3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 10:05am
Back in the day when I did a bit of woodworking it was common knowledge that any thin plank of solid wood would tend to cup or warp with a curve opposite the curve of its end grain. This was less so if the plank was quarter or rift sawn. The advised way of making a table top or cabinet shelf was to rip the boards into narrower pieces and flip over every other one so that their end grains alternated, one curving up, the next curving down. This evened out any future warpage so that the overall piece would remain as straight as possible.

It seems likely to me that this same principal is relevant to the core of a table tennis blade. The core is the primary structural element and any warpage there will put stresses on the blade which would be more likely to change it's playing characteristics than any wood glue seam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 10:50am
"The experts  (Nexy/BTY engineers, etc) you're questioning actually spent countless hours studying blade design and its effect on ball bounce, general play, etc. And yet, you don't like their conclusions because you do not understand how they arrived at them, hence they are not a fact. wtf. "


ClapClapClap


Everybody's an expert now!!!! yes, from 9/11 Conspiracy theorists, to Evolution deniers, to Moon Landing Hoax shills, a lot of people think their uneducated opinion is as valid as an expert's opinion. Here's a piece discussing this very subject:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

For some PPL, they have their precious beliefs and will IGNORE any facts that don't support their presuppositions while only accepting data that does support their suppositions. Cherry picking is the name of their game!!!

FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 10/22/2017 at 6:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 11:07am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

The experts  (Nexy/BTY engineers, etc) you're questioning actually spent countless hours studying blade design and its effect on ball bounce, general play, etc. And yet, you don't like their conclusions because you do not understand how they arrived at them, hence they are not a fact. wtf. 

Just admit you're buying blades because of their looks - it would be far more intellectually honest.


Such opinions, are naturally biased, since it is in the company's interest to reach such a conclusion.

Such slicing and dicing of parts creates variables and variables undermine quality control because there are just that more moving parts.

One can argue that there are already many variables, and I would agree, but such a construction simply increases variability. It almost undermines all notions of reviewing a product or purchasing some unknown via an online store. The blade is a rather difficult product to construct with predictable characteristics. It is a bit perplexing. Definitely better to purchase after first looking at it and feeling it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 12:05pm
"Such opinions, are naturally biased, since it is in the company's interest to reach such a conclusion. 

Such slicing and dicing of parts creates variables and variables undermine quality control because there are just that more moving parts."


richrf:  What is your expertise on the subject? Should I listen to you or to a company that has been dedicated to the manufacture of some of the best blades in the market since 1950?

Do you make table tennis blades?

or you just post your opinion on an internet page pretending its as valid as an experts?

http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/


FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 10/22/2017 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 12:27pm
Zeio, I remember that conversation with Ross: he does it consistently and always at the same level far inside the handle. No surprise nor shady business with him. I have never seen a joint on Ross’ blades other than that one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

The experts  (Nexy/BTY engineers, etc) you're questioning actually spent countless hours studying blade design and its effect on ball bounce, general play, etc. And yet, you don't like their conclusions because you do not understand how they arrived at them, hence they are not a fact. wtf. 

Just admit you're buying blades because of their looks - it would be far more intellectually honest.


Such opinions, are naturally biased, since it is in the company's interest to reach such a conclusion.

Such slicing and dicing of parts creates variables and variables undermine quality control because there are just that more moving parts.

One can argue that there are already many variables, and I would agree, but such a construction simply increases variability. It almost undermines all notions of reviewing a product or purchasing some unknown via an online store. The blade is a rather difficult product to construct with predictable characteristics. It is a bit perplexing. Definitely better to purchase after first looking at it and feeling it.


Sad sigh. Are you seriously implying that a TT blade "complexity" is in any way comparable with, I don't know, a car, a computer or an airplane? The humanity has been manufacturing then with fairly predictable characteristics for quite a while now. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Sad sigh. Are you seriously implying that a TT blade "complexity" is in any way comparable with, I don't know, a car, a computer or an airplane? The humanity has been manufacturing then with fairly predictable characteristics for quite a while now. 
 


Yes, because of the nature of "feeling" and the individuality there of. That is why the professionals get special attention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Zeio, I remember that conversation with Ross: he does it consistently and always at the same level far inside the handle. No surprise nor shady business with him. I have never seen a joint on Ross’ blades other than that one.


There are obvious economic advantages to slicing and dicing and there are also manufacturing QC issues. As a buyer one can only be cognizant of the issue and do what one can to get what one is looking for. Obviously examining the merchandise before purchasing is one approach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 4:50pm
(FdT)  Everybody's an expert now!!!! yes, from 9/11 Conspiracy theorists, to Evolution deniers, to Moon Landing Hoax chills, a lot of people think their "uneducated" opinion is as valid as an expert's opinion. Here's a piece discussing this very subject:

http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

For some PPL, they have their precious beliefs and will IGNORE any facts that don't support their presuppositions while only accepting data that does support their suppositions. Cherry picking is the name of their game!!

FdT

Now just a Winnipeg minute there, hoss.  You tryin' to tell me that Neil Young, Gordon Lightfoot and those hosers the McKenzie brothers weren't the brains behind the brains behind 9/11?

And that's not all, you Godless, doomed to eternal Hellfire infidel.  It's not just a matter of belief, but established fact, that the Judeo-Christian God created the universe in six days and, since this was quite a construction project, took a day off on the seventh.

What God did, according to Genesis, was pretty neat.  He fashioned a flat earth with an ocean on top of it in the middle of which He sat on His throne keeping an eye on things.  Underneath the flat earth there was also an ocean, supposedly to keep the earth from dropping clean out of the universe.

Dinosaurs and other big varmints?  Never existed.  Couldn't fit into Noah's ark.

The Big Bang theory was thought up out of nothing by a bunch of fancy-schmantzy overeducated scientists, and who needs science when you got faith, who are gonna suffer for an eternity in Hell with Big Bangs ringing eternally in their ears.  Serves 'em right, for messing around with Scripture and Biblical inerrancy.  

And as for that Moon landing nonsense, everyone knows that that was done on some liberal Hollywood set with the guy who used to play Captain Video acting like some dude named Neil Armstrong gallivanting all over this fake papier-mache moon.

Finally, an expert's opinion is only as sound as the area of his/her expertise.  I knew a lot more about pimple configurations in the 1930s and 1940s than Einstein ever bothered to think of, if he ever bothered to think of them at all.  




Edited by berndt_mann - 10/22/2017 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Sad sigh. Are you seriously implying that a TT blade "complexity" is in any way comparable with, I don't know, a car, a computer or an airplane? The humanity has been manufacturing then with fairly predictable characteristics for quite a while now. 
 


Yes, because of the nature of "feeling" and the individuality there of. That is why the professionals get special attention.

I give up.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 6:58pm
Hey berndtmann!

Sorry I had to edit my post after I saw you react to it.

Anyway, continue....

You should write a book!!

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2017 at 8:05pm
Yeah what's up w the hadraw series?  Particularly the SR?   It looked so good on paper.  Anyone try one?  Know what[s the problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 4:52am
The REAL reason ZJK has been losing so much. YUCK!



Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 5:32am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

The REAL reason ZJK has been losing so much. YUCK!




???????
Rosewood NCT V 86 gr Master

Thibar EL-S MAX FH

Thibar FX-S BH



Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 5:52am
Joint veneer.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 6:55am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Joint veneer.

Yep.  It can't be the back problems, other injuries, overboosting or anything like that.  It's gotta be the joint veneer.  No doubt in my ex-military mind.

Just out of curiousity:  why would a guy who's about to become a pop star and who through his table tennis exploits could afford a Lamborghini play with a blade with a joint veneer?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 10:06am
World Hunger, the impending environment disaster (some would say it already is a disaster), cancer, overpopulation....all of these are trivial when compared with the scourge that confronts the human race as we know it.....joint veneers!!!!

It is time we looked at ourselves and re-evaluate ourselves as a civilized species and our place in the Universe once and for all. Where did we go wrong. JOINT VENEERS! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

We should put all of our scientists working around the clock to solve this threat to human civilization if we want to survive the next decade.

say no to joint veneers!

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 10:27am
Resist, FdT!  No to joint veneers!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 12:09pm
Hey guys I recommend the 3 body problem, the 1st book of a trilogy that is so intense jointless core tt blades suddenly become less a priority.
I always like to hang out with you stubborn tt addicts,
Cheers!

Edited by fatt - 11/14/2017 at 12:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 1:08pm
You gave birth to a great meme. I would own it with pride. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 1:42pm
Butterfly seems to be aware of this thread.

They just made a statement several days ago.

https://youtu.be/2HD85yZKGDw
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

The REAL reason ZJK has been losing so much. YUCK!





I am glad you came to your senses and start being aware; I was right not to desperate given your history here.
Yes, with jointless core and veneers, zjk might have won rio 2016 singles, that 1st game he did not get was so close and no doubt the joints killed his chance as we all know at that highest level, the smallest details can change the outcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 2:32pm
If you play with a joint veneer
Your game could go from good to queer.
You'll get hot sweats, you'll get cold feet.
You'll lose to guys you once could beat.
If you wanna know why things work this way,
Don't delay,
Ask ZJK.
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