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729 Battle II Rubber Review

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    Posted: 10/24/2017 at 11:43pm
So this is my favorite rubber. I don't hide that I'm "not impartial". It's getting the 10s. So bear with me. I'll try to describe the experience as well.
I compare it directly to the Evolution MS-X, EL-P, Hurricane 3 and Hurricane 3 Neo.
The numbers in the review don't reflect exactly how good the rubber does something, but how easy it is to do it with the rubber.


Technicalities:

Price:
$18, free shipping (ali-express).

Weight: 47g cut. Surprisingly light given its other properties. Note that my blade head is larger than usual, so for you it may well be like.. a gram or two less. Not sure. MUCH lighter than the MS-X, about the same weight as the H3/neo. Given that the Hurricane 8 is said to be very heavy, this is an advantage for the Battle II in comparison to what is probably its direct competition.

Hardness: comes in two flavors, 45 or 47 hardness. HARD. Similar to the H3. Barely yields to finger pressure, if at all. No visible pores.
The MS-X is hard sponged but a bit less than this. The EL-P of course is much, much softer.

Tackiness:
Much tackier than any H3/Neo I ever used. They can't handle plastic balls at all while this rubber can. The thing though is that other than being very tacky, it's also straight up grippier than the H3/Neos. It feels like a very old school kind of topsheet that's nevertheless very well adapted to the plastic ball.

Consistency/Longevity: I got several sheets of this. Haven't seen one degrade seriously yet and it's been a few months. These tacky hard rubbers can last a LONG LONG time.

Regarding consistency, of course some sheets are slightly tackier than others, but none is less than spectacular. I haven't noticed any real inconsistencies in terms of play, none have bubbled up, none have separated, and none ever flaked away at the edges at all (something the Evolution rubbers are notorious for doing).
In comparison to the DHS rubbers, this is perfect consistency. With H3 Neos, some came nearly untacky, some had the red paint peel off with the upper layer of the topsheet when the packaged covering was removed, etc.

As a side-note, it'll lose tackiness during the practice so you have to clean it with a few drops of water and dry well. The tackiness will return fully after you rest the rubber a bit. Not sure why it's like that but it's what I've noticed. Perhaps it's because of the humidity at my club (when practicing on my table which is in the back yard there's no such problem. Clean it and it's back to full tackiness instantly)


Play Characteristics:

Serve: 10/10
Serves can be very spinny with just a small flick of the wrist. Couldn't get this much out of any other rubber ever. This is very important because you can get a ton of spin with a small movement, which means deception in serve is very easy, and after a certain measure of spin, deception is much more important.. Of course, with faster fuller motion it also serves spinnier than the MX-S and H3 because it can grab the plastic ball better and is non tensor so it's a lot easier to put a lot of oomph into the ball while keeping it short.

Serve Receive: 10/10
Nothing unpredictable here. A hard sponge ultra tacky rubber will always be the best for serve receive in my opinion. No catapult like the ESN rubbers so you can easily place it where you want.
Makes it very easy to return it with lots of backspin to wherever you want because you engage mostly the tackiness of the topsheet and none of the sponge (which is too hard for that).

Something I like to do with this rubber:
Opponent serves short sidespin. I use the tackiness to just brush the ball lightly in the direction of the spin and return the ball straight with much sidespin it shoots off the opponents racket. Can't get this effect with the non-tacky rubbers I had. The MX-S can't grip the ball half as well without forward momentum and the EL-P engages the very soft sponge slightly making it return too fast with too little spin. It's very effective as a surprise serve return because other rubbers can't do it half as well, and so people just don't do it at my club.

Perfect.

Topspin 9.5
Tested to see by having a blade with Battle II on one side and the H3Neo on the other.
It was so spinny in comparison that with identical shot, balls land in the middle of the table instead near the edge with the H3. With a harder shot you'll get the balls to the end of the table and the behavior is very similar to H3, meaning that the ball flies almost straight over the net and then plunges nearly straight down by the opponents table edge.

Very hard shots were less spinny than the MS-X, but this rubber is better for spinning closer to the table and over the table.  And in non-top-power shots it was spinnier than the MS-X. I'd say the two are comparable but have different strengths.
Battle II is definitely best suited to a player that stays closer to the table and has body speed.

Block: 9
In my opinion a little less controlled than the H3 because it's a faster rubber, but it's good. Hard sponge eats up the speed. It won't shoot off like in the ESNs, so it will generally be a slower block but this is good, because it lets you control the speed and placement more easily. It's still not a slow rubber by any means, it offers a very good compromise.

I'd rate the MX-S a solid 10 in blocking, in comparison. You'll need to block more actively to get the same speed, but can choose to block softly to surprise with a more accurately placed block. You can return as fast as MS-X does when blocking passively, but it'll require an active block which is harder.  Then again, its much easier to control placement than the MS-X, so arguably it's nearly as good as the MS-X but with a different specialization.

Speed: 9
Ok, this was a surprise (I think anyone who uses this rubber will very surprised at its speed).
I think there is some kind of catapult built into it, but it only activates when you hit quite hard and straight. I can't attribute it to the hard sponge because it's MUCH faster than the Hurricanes when you hit the ball directly with force, but is also simply faster in general. It's fast enough to use it effectively as a backhand rubber, which is very hard to do with the hurricanes. Of course, it's not ideal for that though. Sponge too hard. I still use it.

So yeah, smashes are good, direct shots are very fast but similarly to the H3s you still need a bit of a brushing motion to get the most out of it. Slightly different stroke than the ESN rubbers. In straight forward shots it's nearly as fast as the MX-S/EL-P, considerably faster than the H3s. I rate it 9 when it may deserve.. like. 8.8(?) because of the surprise factor. It really feels like a modern rubber dressed up like an old one.


Conclusion(?)

Great rubber. Easily my favorite. It seems to do everything well and make everything easy. I couldn't find any rubber other than this that ticks ALL the boxes for me but there you go. This is why it's my favorite.
It's fast but without tensor/catapult unpredictability, it's extremely spinny with barely a touch, its the absolute best at serves and serve receive (which is my favorite part of the game really), and to top it off, you can get like 3-4 of these for the price of one butterfly rubber.


Get one and try it, it's almost free :P


Edited by Lightzy - 05/10/2018 at 6:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2017 at 1:41pm
I played with battle 2 for quite a while. It did everything well for me except topspins off of the table. Counter looping or just mid distance safe topspins. I think it is a very good rubber. I do need to play often for it to work well and it is not super forgiving. I used it exclusively on my FH tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote al_111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2017 at 6:54am
Interesting... My 47 deg sponge was too soft for my liking, with all that tensor-ish jumpiness in the short game and a lower throw vs. H3. Inconsistency? Or just newer batches are harder? (Mine is about 2 y.o.)

Edited by al_111 - 10/27/2017 at 6:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2017 at 12:51pm
From what I read the old batches had a lot of manufacturing problems, including the topsheet easily coming apart from the sponge etc. It's one of the reasons I was reluctant to try it at first. I spotted absolutely no imperfection in 6 different sheets. But who knows?
I have the 47 on forehand and it's just as hard as a hard h3neo, no visible pores etc. 45 on backhand, but there's hardly a difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamj8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 7:59am
Great review!  I was just thinking about this rubber the other day.  How does the hardness rating 45/47 translate into Hurricane 3 (38/39/40/41)?
A version of Hurricane 3
A version of Tenergy
A Stiga blade...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 8:35am
Quote
...They (H3/Neo) can't handle plastic balls at all,...


Stopped reading after this nonsense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 10:38am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Quote
...They (H3/Neo) can't handle plastic balls at all,...


Stopped reading after this nonsense.


vvk1, unfortunately for you I've gone through about 8 sheets of H3neo and the comparison between those and the BII... well, it's no comparison. They are rubbers from the early 2000s or something, this is a rubber from 2015 or something.
I might make a video comparing their tackiness and grip if I feel like it, I do have a bat with a nearly unused neo3 on it right now..




About the hardness, I think the 47 of the BII is similar to H3 40, but I can only tell by squeezing with my fingers. You need some specialized measuring devices to know for sure. Also the sponge composition could be very different even though they look identical (in color too).



Edited by Lightzy - 10/28/2017 at 10:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 12:26pm
does why Ma Long lost to TB! he is using H3neo that cant handle plastic ball
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

does why Ma Long lost to TB! he is using H3neo that cant handle plastic ball

It isn't clever to use sarcasm while at the same time being wrong. I hope I can explain:
There is very little in common between commercial H3Neo and what ma long uses, which is highly customized, personalized stuff, which he also replaces every week or, if JJK is to be trusted at his word, every day during a competition.
Also the blades they use tend to be other than what the logo on the blade says, because it's all sponsorship deals.


That said, instead of trolling, buy a BII and a H3Neo and compare them, see for yourself. I've done so, and this is what I saw. Or more correctly, buy at least 6 of each, as I did, so you have some data to work with and compare.


Edited by Lightzy - 10/28/2017 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 6:56pm
I would not use the release date as something important, tenergy was released in 2008.
What's the weight before cutting it and after? Is it consistent across multiple rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 7:22pm
Are there any videos of players hitting with this new blade? It would be great to see it in action with Chinese some popular rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:


There is very little in common between commercial H3Neo and what ma long uses, which is highly customized, personalized stuff, which he also replaces every week or, if JJK is to be trusted at his word, every day during a competition.



you said "I actually started playing recently"
and you already know what exactly rubber Ma Long using.
how about other CNT players and many non pro players who using H3 neo?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 8:02pm
Let other people explain to you that you can't actually get real CNT rubbers etc.
I'm sorry that you found my review uninformative based on some religious belief regarding the H3Neo's tackiness. I have only compared my experience with 6 sheets of BII to 8 sheets of H3Neo, so it is true that my data was perhaps insufficient for establishing complete proof of relative consistency. How many sheets have you compared?


Edited by Lightzy - 10/28/2017 at 8:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2017 at 9:52am
"Also the blades they use tend to be other than what the logo on the blade says, because it's all sponsorship deals."

This is speculation based on ZERO evidence.

Speculation is boring. 

That said, this rubber looks like might need to be looked at more closely. I did play with Friendship 729 Cream Trascend a long time ago. My only complaint was that it did not last very long. About 2 months. The surface lost its tackiness no matter how careful I was with cleaning it and storing it. 

I will give this a try on my BH.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2017 at 11:06am
Cool, write your opinion on it afterwards. Be happy to see other people's impressions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2017 at 12:29pm
I tried to switch to B2T when it came out as it was a cheaper alternative to H3N.

Here are the differences:
B2T is heavy at about 50g cut, while H3N 40 is about 47g.
H3N has more surface grip.
H3N has higher throw.
B2T lasts lesser than H3N. More tacky buy topsheet wears out faster.
You can think of B2T as a tamed H8.
B2T is significantly cheaper than H8.

My main problem was that it is a little bit more reactive than H3N and weighed more. Also with H3N availability is not an issue.


Edited by ashishsharmaait - 10/30/2017 at 12:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2017 at 3:40pm
ashishsharmaait

What do you think of H8 as a BH rubber compared to B2T?
Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2017 at 9:54am
I am not sure why, but H8 is tempting. After severe disappointment in trying H3 and H3N at least 3 or 4 times over a number of years I have always said never again. After saying never again I again may try a double happiness rubber. Main thing I did not like about battle 2 was counter topspinning from off the table. Maybe H8 can do this better than B2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2017 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-weight: bold; : rgb251, 251, 253;">ashishsharmaait</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-weight: bold; : rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">What do you think of H8 as a BH rubber compared to B2T?</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Thanks.</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">
It's too heavy and too hard for a BH rubber. If you want to try a Chinese rubber on BH try Skyline 3 60 mid-hard.
</span>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">FdT</span>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2017 at 4:40pm
H8 is definitely not a great choice for BH. It's one heavy rubber and the hardest you can find pretty much.
NONE of these rubbers, I think, make good backhand rubbers. A good backhand rubber should be soft sponge, and tackiness also takes away from the speed of the backhand a bit too much generally. But some people just like that stuff. Like me.
Also it's been noticed that some CNT players are playing h3neo on backhand but it's probably a highly customized rubber that's much softer and probably has completely different characteristics to anything you can buy.

If you must, the suggestion of skyline 3 60 soft is a very good one probably, since it is softer and lighter. It's also faster than the B2 on low strength shots (good for backhand) and will probably do better than the B2 based on the technical specifications alone.
I've tried it on backhand and loved it. Still wanting to try Palio AK47 blue, and then I'll probably settle.


BTW I've also suffered a lot of disappointments with the H3/Neo, enough to completely stop using them. I switched to BII because it gave me everything I wanted from the H3Neo while being overall better in every category. And most especially in tackiness and consistency of product.






Edited by Lightzy - 11/26/2017 at 1:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jk92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2017 at 12:37am
As a result of your recommendation, I've decided to give Battle II a try. My sheet should arrive this week or next.

I'm a H3 / H8 user, and I've been using H8 for the last 3 or 4 months. In terms of plastic ball, Hurricane's effectiveness is decreased a LOT when it comes to the ABS ball (Double Fish V40+ and DHS D40+). I can't produce a short high-spin serve like I'm used to. I like chinese rubbers a lot and really would like to keep using them but the ABS ball is like a plague wiping out a staple crop for me LOL

I think in the back of my mind I think battle II will not be that much better but at ~20 USD a sheet I figure why not?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2017 at 1:57am
Don't forget to post here after you try it out a bit. It's a lot tackier than DHS rubbers, especially considering polyballs, but I never got to play with ABS. I also wonder how it goes.
They got some new ABS balls where I train, I'll ask to try em out today.

If you've been using H3Neo thus far you're going to really enjoy the Battle2. I also switched to it from the Neo. I think people used to softie rubbers won't understand how fast it can be when you use it correctly but if you know how to use your H3Neo you'll definitely enjoy the Battle2


Edited by Lightzy - 11/26/2017 at 2:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2017 at 9:13am
I'd like to see a picture of the topsheet. Specifically, I'd like to see the logo, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2017 at 9:40am
Originally posted by azv azv wrote:

I would not use the release date as something important, tenergy was released in 2008.
What's the weight before cutting it and after? Is it consistent across multiple rubbers?


64g before, 50g after
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FelixTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 2:33pm
Hi, i recently bought a friendship Battle 2 Provincial from ProTT, have you tried this one yet? It is supposedly better than the commercial one. 
http://www.prott.vip/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=ProBattleII


Edited by FelixTT - 12/13/2017 at 4:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jk92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 3:06pm
Just finished my first week with Battle II

Which included, Training with my coach, practice and a league match.

The best way I can describe the rubber is the best parts of Hurricane Neo 3 and Hurricane 8 combined into a single rubber, and it does perform better than both with the ABS ball. Not as spinny as with the XSF seamless but better than DHS offerings.

With that said, Hurricane 8 I think plays decently with the Butterfly G series balls but the Battle II is great for the ABS ball.

The play and feel mostly resembles Hurricane Neo 3, not bouncy, hardness is about a hair less than Unboosted H3Neo, With good grip and tack. I dont think it's tackier than some sheets of H3N that I've played with, but there is added grip because of the internal pip structure. 

The Throw is lower than H8 on the same blade, quite noticeably so to me. Had to make an adjustment compared to H8 which I was playing with immediately before. Control and blocking were superb and fast topspin play right off the bounce had great speed and accuracy. Counter topspins and loopkills have a satisfying grip on the ball before you follow through with the shot. Gives a good amount of confidence on these power shots.

Service with the ABS ball is a touchy area for me, as I have high expectations on my short serves, and the ABS ball has made it tough on Hurricane 8 + Neo 3 for me, so after playing with Battle II, it is a step in the right direction, but I feel i'll need some more time to get my service to the level I need. 

All in All, I think it is the chinese rubber for the ABS generation, and I will immediately try Provincial Battle II to see what it's like, maybe just a tuned version of the sponge? Thanks for all the recommendations the Lightzy and everyone else Clap


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Chicobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 3:53pm
How does the rubber compare with Big Dipper?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FelixTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 4:09pm

I will post a review next week, when i get my hands on the Provincial Version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 6:02pm
Lower throw than H8? Really?
How do you even lift backspin with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Chicobo Chicobo wrote:

How does the rubber compare with Big Dipper?


it much tackier then BD, slower and softer
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