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Nominate a top 4H pusher

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Most of those were good but risky short pushes vs no spin serves that Ma Lin is trained to attack with high quality. If you aren't playing people who are attacking with that quality all the time it is hard to break the habit. Like i said Boll doesn't like to push long on serve return.

That you think tacky rubber doesn't make it easier to push short with spin is your opinion.



I use tacky rubbers myself because it helps my pushes and short game. But the choice of rubbers cannot be an excuse to put a comparatively poor pusher in the list of top 10 FH pushers. That's like saying "if I had Ma Long's equipment I would defeat him"...we are talking about facts and not about hypothetical scenarios which never happened, because Boll never used tacky rubbers in competitions. "Boll with nontacky rubbers" was not that great at pushing and "Boll with tacky rubbers" never existed anyway...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Most of those were good but risky short pushes vs no spin serves that Ma Lin is trained to attack with high quality. If you aren't playing people who are attacking with that quality all the time it is hard to break the habit. Like i said Boll doesn't like to push long on serve return.

That you think tacky rubber doesn't make it easier to push short with spin is your opinion.



I use tacky rubbers myself because it helps my pushes and short game. But the choice of rubbers cannot be an excuse to put a comparatively poor pusher in the list of top 10 FH pushers. That's like saying "if I had Ma Long's equipment I would defeat him"...we are talking about facts and not about hypothetical scenarios which never happened, because Boll never used tacky rubbers in competitions. "Boll with nontacky rubbers" was not that great at pushing and "Boll with tacky rubbers" never existed anyway...

Well since you gave Samsonov as an example of someone with a great short forehand push who rarely pops up serves, here is Samsonov playing Ma Lin.  Anyone who watches the match can see that he hardly does any better than Boll does and likely much worse.  It's one of the problems with doing things with highlights rather than actually looking at what happens.  One will note that Samsonov is often pushing long as well.

In any case, as I have said, you have your own opinion which is informed by the way you watch TT, I have mine.  I also discuss these things with people so my opinion changes over time.  But I know enough to know that you can't seriously believe that Timo Boll, who almost pushed every serve with his forehand has a poor forehand push and is able to beat the Chinese.

From the same event:


Edited by NextLevel - 11/07/2017 at 10:32pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 5:55am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Most of those were good but risky short pushes vs no spin serves that Ma Lin is trained to attack with high quality. If you aren't playing people who are attacking with that quality all the time it is hard to break the habit. Like i said Boll doesn't like to push long on serve return.

That you think tacky rubber doesn't make it easier to push short with spin is your opinion.



I use tacky rubbers myself because it helps my pushes and short game. But the choice of rubbers cannot be an excuse to put a comparatively poor pusher in the list of top 10 FH pushers. That's like saying "if I had Ma Long's equipment I would defeat him"...we are talking about facts and not about hypothetical scenarios which never happened, because Boll never used tacky rubbers in competitions. "Boll with nontacky rubbers" was not that great at pushing and "Boll with tacky rubbers" never existed anyway...

Well since you gave Samsonov as an example of someone with a great short forehand push who rarely pops up serves, here is Samsonov playing Ma Lin.  Anyone who watches the match can see that he hardly does any better than Boll does and likely much worse.  It's one of the problems with doing things with highlights rather than actually looking at what happens.  One will note that Samsonov is often pushing long as well.

In any case, as I have said, you have your own opinion which is informed by the way you watch TT, I have mine.  I also discuss these things with people so my opinion changes over time.  But I know enough to know that you can't seriously believe that Timo Boll, who almost pushed every serve with his forehand has a poor forehand push and is able to beat the Chinese.

From the same event:

Even though Boll won the match, I didn't see many successful short receives which deterred a strong attack. He relied more on variation and rallying to beat Ma Lin, not his awesome pushing skills. You have picked Samsonov which is arguably the weakest pusher of the 6-7 players I have mentioned, and also picked one of the unimportant matches where players were playing for fun. 

Here's a match where although Samsonov loses but still shows his amazing control over his pushes.
You can see how few strong attacking opportunities he gives Zhang Jike here... 

Just because Timo likes to push with his FH and is good enough to beat the CNT doesn't mean his push quality is amazingly high. That is a false equivalence. Timo wins due to his extremely good rallying skills (especially on the counterattacks) and his consistent and extremely spinny topspins. He doesn't win because he has an amazing push, but despite his poor pushes. In fact, from observation Timo plays better when he flicks more often. Timo's problem is that he doesn't brush the ball on pushes sufficiently, usually times it too late and together with an overly bouncy Tenergy and/or blade, often leads to lots of poor quality pop-ups. If you look at short pushes from Zhang Jike or Ma Lin, they are absolutely loaded with underspin that even high receives don't get attacked easily with high percentages. 

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I simply don't think Timo belongs in the top 10 forehand pushers. If this was the top 10 in topspin rallies or top 10 in opening loops he would belong there for sure, but definitely not for forehand pushes. I actually agree with you that equipment plays a big deal here, non-bouncy tacky rubbers makes it a lot easier to push short and low with a great deal of spin. This (the short game) is also one of the big advantages that the CNT enjoy at the moment. Unfortunately, most non-CNT players just refuse to adapt and learn from the best. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haushamerschuah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 28 minutes ago at 3:32pm
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

The best push overall, of anyone I have ever seen play the game, is Kong Linghui, although Waldner Samsonov and Ma Lin are up there as well.

For Kong, a push was both a way to setup his attack and a weapon by itself.  His placement was so precise and spin variation so huge that he could completely break the spirit of many weaker players just by pushing.

ILya


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 45 minutes ago at 10:15pm
I like Wu Yang!



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