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Match against Cheng Li (2541) game 3 and 4

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

As a newbie I don't know how to say it, or if a constructive discussion is even possible on the subject. You obviously have tremendous skill and could still beat a lot of people if you used double inverted, so this isn't directed personally. But on a more philosophical level does it seem like these long pimple and anti surfaces compromise the integrity of the sport? I can't think of any other racket sport or even sport in general that allows for such large deviation.

I guess there's just something romantic to me about two people playing it out and competing on as even terms as possible. When you get to the point of equipment dictating a completely opposite ball behavior from one player to the next that purity of competition is lost a bit.

For me and many other players, the beauty of the sport comes from the diversity of styles and equipment. A guy like Koji Matsushita or Joo Se Hyuk could never play that impressive with inverted on both sides.
Being able to play with or adjust your game to play against different styles and equipment is a unique challenge that only applies to table tennis.


It's not just equipment. Many players use variation to win points even with inverted rubber. I once played a new player and after a few points was asked "are you using pips?".

I was using Tenergy and dead blocked a ball which my opponent dumped into the bottom of the net. Then I looped a ball which was returned 3 feet off the table.

I would say the people I encounter who complain about LP the most are bad at reading spin and have weak mental games. They usually are the ones who complain about noise, balls on the court, lighting, slippery floor, etc.

pushblockers game is ugly and beautifully skillful
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 4:47pm
I think you play very well Pushblocker.  You do not look rusty at all.  The quality of your push is probably better than in your older video, most of your error came from rushing the shot, but I think that is because your opponent is so good, if you don't rush and give him enough pace, he will make you pay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hangdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

to me this style of playing looks like taking the easy route, not relying on foot work or feeling for the ball but mostly relying on the rubber to do the work for you.


The long pimples are only doing a different kind of work to the elastic sponges and tensioned rubbers that conventional inverted players rely on to “do the work” for them. There is a hell of a lot of skill involved in controlling long pips. Try it and see – better yet, try it against a 2500 player and see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 5:29pm
Fabian 1890 Wrote "not relying on feeling of the ball"

You would be really surprised at the feeling it takes to keep the ball on the table, especially playing with a different type of rubber on the 4H.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 7:16pm
It is always nice to see people looking for an advice or useful and objective criticism for their videos.
Watching at your video I just noticed you are doing the same like many more non-talented players -
Looking for blocks, cuts, chops, drop-chops and variations of these "weird" movements, thinking they are doing something very hard or special. Nothing even close...

From psychological point - for all my time in the sport I saw many players like you to try this style and having some weird happiness after mistake of their opponents makes me wondering for something.
I'll be glad to know what exactly makes you happy doing this weird style...

 With these kind of movements you can never improve your level and you can never check the possibilities of your body. You are like a piece of stone on the table man...I thought the sport is made people to move their body, while your moving is connecting only if you must go to collect the ball.
Looking how you are limiting your mind with this style is more than sad.
Yes, sometimes someone from the better players (you have played versus) had ill stomach or bad day or lack of interest to show his best (topic here is very large, but I am only focused on the quality of your game, not mentioned your results, because they are not any factor for me).

I can not see something special which could makes you happy or proud of yourself after a win. You have not any one single strong attacking movement. As many people have found - best defense is the offense and talking for players from 1 century ago (comparing with today's players) is sounding even more weird for me...

You are unable to react adequately versus strong loops on your forehand (especially these close to your body) or slow and heavy lops in left with high trajectory. Your starting position is like a position of classic style wrestler. Even amateur coach could give you advice about better starting position which could be more effective in your game, but as you are focused on the full passive game - each position works with you.

I am always looking to see positive things in the style of each tt player, because I am self-educated player mostly (never had good coach for period), but watching your videos I felt completely disappointed.
Yes, players into each sport are trying to motivate themselves by one or another kind of activities during matches, but I really can't see what are trying to achieve on the table.
Too much defense, too much same game, too slow movements, nothing really useful to be a good sample for the youngsters. Or may be you could be useful sample for the youngsters (what do not try), you never know.

I have nothing versus if this kind of game makes you happy with tt.
Just wondering all about the purpose of your style, concretely.
Thanks for sharing, that was one of the few samples of full passive style players I have seen for all my years in the sport.

I am very large in mind person and I will never have for purpose try hurt someone posting his videos here (direct or indirect) my purpose in general is to find the reason for your style.
That will be really interesting for me - to tell me what motivates you to continue with this boring and weird style more than 10 years (or probably more).

Thanks in advance once again!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

It is always nice to see people looking for an advice or useful and objective criticism for their videos.
Watching at your video I just noticed you are doing the same like many more non-talented players -
Looking for blocks, cuts, chops, drop-chops and variations of these "weird" movements, thinking they are doing something very hard or special. Nothing even close...

From psychological point - for all my time in the sport I saw many players like you to try this style and having some weird happiness after mistake of their opponents makes me wondering for something.
I'll be glad to know what exactly makes you happy doing this weird style...

 With these kind of movements you can never improve your level and you can never check the possibilities of your body. You are like a piece of stone on the table man...I thought the sport is made people to move their body, while your moving is connecting only if you must go to collect the ball.
Looking how you are limiting your mind with this style is more than sad.
Yes, sometimes someone from the better players (you have played versus) had ill stomach or bad day or lack of interest to show his best (topic here is very large, but I am only focused on the quality of your game, not mentioned your results, because they are not any factor for me).

I can not see something special which could makes you happy or proud of yourself after a win. You have not any one single strong attacking movement. As many people have found - best defense is the offense and talking for players from 1 century ago (comparing with today's players) is sounding even more weird for me...

You are unable to react adequately versus strong loops on your forehand (especially these close to your body) or slow and heavy lops in left with high trajectory. Your starting position is like a position of classic style wrestler. Even amateur coach could give you advice about better starting position which could be more effective in your game, but as you are focused on the full passive game - each position works with you.

I am always looking to see positive things in the style of each tt player, because I am self-educated player mostly (never had good coach for period), but watching your videos I felt completely disappointed.
Yes, players into each sport are trying to motivate themselves by one or another kind of activities during matches, but I really can't see what are trying to achieve on the table.
Too much defense, too much same game, too slow movements, nothing really useful to be a good sample for the youngsters. Or may be you could be useful sample for the youngsters (what do not try), you never know.

I have nothing versus if this kind of game makes you happy with tt.
Just wondering all about the purpose of your style, concretely.
Thanks for sharing, that was one of the few samples of full passive style players I have seen for all my years in the sport.

I am very large in mind person and I will never have for purpose try hurt someone posting his videos here (direct or indirect) my purpose in general is to find the reason for your style.
That will be really interesting for me - to tell me what motivates you to continue with this boring and weird style more than 10 years (or probably more).

Thanks in advance once again!


I guess an interesting question to ask at this point: can you beat 'pushblocker'? If not (and I suspect you have to be USATT 2200+ to do it comfortably, if not higher) - then arguments about how esthetically pleasing this style is (or not) seem to be besides the point. We are not talking about gymnastics, synchronized swimming or figure skating here, subjective judgements do not apply, only win-loss record matters.  

Can't speak for Pushblocker, but he can play whatever damn style he pleases. And so are you. 

P.S. Most of the statements you make contradict  the last one about being 'large in mind' person. IMHO, of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote passifid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 8:23pm
I assume he enjoys the ability to keep the ball going despite the best efforts to make him miss, much like a goalkeeper in football. I hate playing good players like him, its frustrating and honestly i find it boring to play. But i am sure he enjoys it and many enjoy playing with him as such he can do as he pleases, sure he wont be able to say look at my beautiful loop but he CAN say look at how i defended against 5 massive loops in a row and still managed to dink it away from him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I don't have game 1 and 2 on video.. Won game 1 and lost the next 3..
I'm a little rusty.. Didn't play tt since June 25.. Played yesterday at the Broward TTC 4 star tournament to kick off my NA Teams preparation..

Game 3

Game 4

Didn't play bad but made too many unforced errors..


It is amazing that you can force him 2541 to play your game to win. You are an inspiration to all long pips players.

....
Few of my clubmates started to push the ball (like in game 4) back to me, and they would only loop or drive when they are in position. I believe the 40+ balls make the LP push harmless Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 8:48pm
Playing regularly with a lot of high level LP players (including a LP SP hitter), I can say that it is very difficult to appreciate the change in length and pace of the ball unless you are on the receiving end.
PushBlocker has good control on depth and placement and I think he would be quite effective even with an inverted.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 11/06/2017 at 8:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think you play very well Pushblocker.  You do not look rusty at all.  The quality of your push is probably better than in your older video, most of your error came from rushing the shot, but I think that is because your opponent is so good, if you don't rush and give him enough pace, he will make you pay.
Good observation.. I was rushing and also pushing too aggressively against low spin balls which results in a floating ball which usually goes too long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

It is always nice to see people looking for an advice or useful and objective criticism for their videos.
Watching at your video I just noticed you are doing the same like many more non-talented players -
Looking for blocks, cuts, chops, drop-chops and variations of these "weird" movements, thinking they are doing something very hard or special. Nothing even close...

From psychological point - for all my time in the sport I saw many players like you to try this style and having some weird happiness after mistake of their opponents makes me wondering for something.
I'll be glad to know what exactly makes you happy doing this weird style...

 With these kind of movements you can never improve your level and you can never check the possibilities of your body. You are like a piece of stone on the table man...I thought the sport is made people to move their body, while your moving is connecting only if you must go to collect the ball.
Looking how you are limiting your mind with this style is more than sad.
Yes, sometimes someone from the better players (you have played versus) had ill stomach or bad day or lack of interest to show his best (topic here is very large, but I am only focused on the quality of your game, not mentioned your results, because they are not any factor for me).

I can not see something special which could makes you happy or proud of yourself after a win. You have not any one single strong attacking movement. As many people have found - best defense is the offense and talking for players from 1 century ago (comparing with today's players) is sounding even more weird for me...

You are unable to react adequately versus strong loops on your forehand (especially these close to your body) or slow and heavy lops in left with high trajectory. Your starting position is like a position of classic style wrestler. Even amateur coach could give you advice about better starting position which could be more effective in your game, but as you are focused on the full passive game - each position works with you.

I am always looking to see positive things in the style of each tt player, because I am self-educated player mostly (never had good coach for period), but watching your videos I felt completely disappointed.
Yes, players into each sport are trying to motivate themselves by one or another kind of activities during matches, but I really can't see what are trying to achieve on the table.
Too much defense, too much same game, too slow movements, nothing really useful to be a good sample for the youngsters. Or may be you could be useful sample for the youngsters (what do not try), you never know.

I have nothing versus if this kind of game makes you happy with tt.
Just wondering all about the purpose of your style, concretely.
Thanks for sharing, that was one of the few samples of full passive style players I have seen for all my years in the sport.

I am very large in mind person and I will never have for purpose try hurt someone posting his videos here (direct or indirect) my purpose in general is to find the reason for your style.
That will be really interesting for me - to tell me what motivates you to continue with this boring and weird style more than 10 years (or probably more).

Thanks in advance once again!

With that horrible game, I have obtained a 2309 rating and maintained 2200's for a few years, a level that 95% of players never reach.. I'm 46 years old, have 2 young kids and no time to change my game at this point. I play for fun and I'm not too worried what others think of my skills.. At this point with no practice, I'm glad that I can maintain 2000 to 2100 level and occasionally take down some 2200's and 2300's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Playing regularly with a lot of high level LP players (including a LP SP hitter), I can say that it is very difficult to appreciate the change in length and pace of the ball unless you are on the receiving end.
PushBlocker has good control on depth and placement and I think he would be quite effective even with an inverted.
I do practice with inverted from time to time and my best win was a 1700 player (and I won mostly because of my serve) but my level with inverted is closer to 1400..

Edited by Pushblocker - 11/06/2017 at 9:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2017 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:


Can't speak for Pushblocker, but he can play whatever damn style he pleases. And so are you. 
=============
Agree with this statement 100%.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

but my level with inverted is closer to 1400..

Nice match! Haterz gonna hate... LOL! Many people don't understand that by the time a player reaches I would say around 1950-ish level, your table tennis IQ needs to be pretty good.  Blocking 2500 level loops off the bounce is NOT an easy thing to do.

Was that a FH loopkill at 0:51 of game 3? You are no longer allowed to call yourself a "non-attacking" pushblocker Smile

But I think your inverted rating can be higher than 1400.  What rubbers were you using? You need to slap some 729FX or Reflectoid and play like this penholder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 9:07am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

I guess an interesting question to ask at this point: can you beat 'pushblocker'? If not (and I suspect you have to be USATT 2200+ to do it comfortably, if not higher) - then arguments about how esthetically pleasing this style is (or not) seem to be besides the point.


so if I can't beat FZD I am not allow to criticize him or his style? :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 9:26am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

It is always nice to see people looking for an advice or useful and objective criticism for their videos.
Watching at your video I just noticed you are doing the same like many more non-talented players -
Looking for blocks, cuts, chops, drop-chops and variations of these "weird" movements, thinking they are doing something very hard or special. Nothing even close...

From psychological point - for all my time in the sport I saw many players like you to try this style and having some weird happiness after mistake of their opponents makes me wondering for something.
I'll be glad to know what exactly makes you happy doing this weird style...

 With these kind of movements you can never improve your level and you can never check the possibilities of your body. You are like a piece of stone on the table man...I thought the sport is made people to move their body, while your moving is connecting only if you must go to collect the ball.
Looking how you are limiting your mind with this style is more than sad.
Yes, sometimes someone from the better players (you have played versus) had ill stomach or bad day or lack of interest to show his best (topic here is very large, but I am only focused on the quality of your game, not mentioned your results, because they are not any factor for me).

I can not see something special which could makes you happy or proud of yourself after a win. You have not any one single strong attacking movement. As many people have found - best defense is the offense and talking for players from 1 century ago (comparing with today's players) is sounding even more weird for me...

You are unable to react adequately versus strong loops on your forehand (especially these close to your body) or slow and heavy lops in left with high trajectory. Your starting position is like a position of classic style wrestler. Even amateur coach could give you advice about better starting position which could be more effective in your game, but as you are focused on the full passive game - each position works with you.

I am always looking to see positive things in the style of each tt player, because I am self-educated player mostly (never had good coach for period), but watching your videos I felt completely disappointed.
Yes, players into each sport are trying to motivate themselves by one or another kind of activities during matches, but I really can't see what are trying to achieve on the table.
Too much defense, too much same game, too slow movements, nothing really useful to be a good sample for the youngsters. Or may be you could be useful sample for the youngsters (what do not try), you never know.

I have nothing versus if this kind of game makes you happy with tt.
Just wondering all about the purpose of your style, concretely.
Thanks for sharing, that was one of the few samples of full passive style players I have seen for all my years in the sport.

I am very large in mind person and I will never have for purpose try hurt someone posting his videos here (direct or indirect) my purpose in general is to find the reason for your style.
That will be really interesting for me - to tell me what motivates you to continue with this boring and weird style more than 10 years (or probably more).

Thanks in advance once again!


I guess an interesting question to ask at this point: can you beat 'pushblocker'? If not (and I suspect you have to be USATT 2200+ to do it comfortably, if not higher) - then arguments about how esthetically pleasing this style is (or not) seem to be besides the point. We are not talking about gymnastics, synchronized swimming or figure skating here, subjective judgements do not apply, only win-loss record matters.  

Can't speak for Pushblocker, but he can play whatever damn style he pleases. And so are you. 

P.S. Most of the statements you make contradict  the last one about being 'large in mind' person. IMHO, of course.

Could you expound on why someone needs to be able to possibly beat pushblocker to comment on how aesthetically pleasing his style is, when he is posting his match videos on the forum for public commenting?

I'm not taking anything away from his game, just don't get this statement at all. 


Edited by bard romance - 11/07/2017 at 9:26am
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Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

Many say it's a shortcut, well that may be true up to about usatt 1600-1700.

I think there is some truth to this.  At lower levels, you can win with LP simply because your opponents haven't had enough experience against them.  This scenario can be the one that frustrates opponents and bakes in the idea that they're unfair in some way.  I can see both sides to this - new players can be put off the sport, and LP can be a crutch to keep older players competitive.  For many new players it's just a phase they need to get through, and good coaching is the best way.

After the lower levels everything tends to even out.  I tend to do well against players at my level using LP or anti because I find them predictable and can easily set up attacks on subsequent balls, but that's come with experience and training over many years.  I see them as an advantage in my favour.  Players who are better than me are more likely to beat me of course, regardless of equipment.

At the top level the laws of physics come into play and there is a reason why the top 100 is dominated by reverse rubber users these days.  It would take something unusual or innovative to get a LP/SP/Anti world number one now.

Oliver is something of a marvel in the modern game.  I have no idea how he plays like he does, especially in the face of rule changes over the last 10 years which will have knocked him back.  I find it fascinating and I take my hat off to him - the dedication he must have put into the style is incredibly impressive.  Sure, I don't find it attractive in the aesthetic sense (a very subjective statement), but in practical, sporting terms it's amazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 9:47am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

but my level with inverted is closer to 1400..

Nice match! Haterz gonna hate... LOL! Many people don't understand that by the time a player reaches I would say around 1950-ish level, your table tennis IQ needs to be pretty good.  Blocking 2500 level loops off the bounce is NOT an easy thing to do.

Was that a FH loopkill at 0:51 of game 3? You are no longer allowed to call yourself a "non-attacking" pushblocker Smile

But I think your inverted rating can be higher than 1400.  What rubbers were you using? You need to slap some 729FX or Reflectoid and play like this penholder.
I had about 2 attacks in game 1 and one attach in game 3.. Don't think that 3 attacks in 4 games make me an attacker LOL.

I have taken games off 2000 players using inverted.. I was using a 729 SST cross on the bh and some looping rubber with a soft sponge on the forehand (don't recall what brand it was). 
I can play about low 2000 level with anti which is also an inverted rubber...
My main issue with inverted is not when the ball is in play. My main problem with inverted is service return.. I never practice service return with inverted as I return all serves with pips..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

My main issue with inverted is not when the ball is in play. My main problem with inverted is service return.. I never practice service return with inverted as I return all serves with pips..


hmm .. so instead to practice service return you choose easy way and use pips :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 11:34am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

My main issue with inverted is not when the ball is in play. My main problem with inverted is service return.. I never practice service return with inverted as I return all serves with pips..


hmm .. so instead to practice service return you choose easy way and use pips :)
With all due respect, I cannot agree with pushblocker's statement; he don't play like Fukuoka Haruna, Stefan Kostadinovic or Liu Song after the 2nd ball LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 11:52am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

My main issue with inverted is not when the ball is in play. My main problem with inverted is service return.. I never practice service return with inverted as I return all serves with pips..


hmm .. so instead to practice service return you choose easy way and use pips :)

i sure do.. Those pips instantly made me a 2000+ player.. They are magical

Edited by Pushblocker - 11/07/2017 at 11:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hhca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 2:36pm
2nd that observation: those were not actually "unforced" errors. the opponent exerted on you directly or indirectly. That being said, your style is a measuring stick for a player's soundness in fundamentals and understanding of spin

Edited by hhca - 11/07/2017 at 2:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:


Could you expound on why someone needs to be able to possibly beat pushblocker to comment on how aesthetically pleasing his style is, when he is posting his match videos on the forum for public commenting?

I'm not taking anything away from his game, just don't get this statement at all. 



He is asking to understand the motives of the poster. Many people are just annoyed that pips players can play well without the same level of athleticism of most similarly rated inverted players. But if the player is highly rated then the criticisms are less likely to be driven by ratings envy.

I had a 1200 friend who lost to a 1500 pips player complain this weekend, while I understood how he felt, you usually don't beat pips players until you come to accept what they do well and what they don't do well and adapt your game weapons to take advantage. Saying your opponent is hiding behind equipment makes it harder to play pips well in my experience.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/07/2017 at 2:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:


Could you expound on why someone needs to be able to possibly beat pushblocker to comment on how aesthetically pleasing his style is, when he is posting his match videos on the forum for public commenting?

I'm not taking anything away from his game, just don't get this statement at all. 



He is asking to understand the motives of the poster. Many people are just annoyed that pips players can play well without the same level of athleticism of most similarly rated inverted players. But if the player is highly rated then the criticisms are less likely to be driven by ratings envy.

I had a 1200 friend who lost to a 1500 pips player complain this weekend, while I understood how he felt, you usually don't beat pips players until you come to accept what they do well and what they don't do well and adapt your game weapons to take advantage. Saying your opponent is hiding behind equipment makes it harder to play pips well in my experience.

Understood and agreed. However, aesthetically pleasing is a separate issue. I think most people can agree that it is not an aesthetically pleasing style. Understanding what is actually going on on the gameplay level is a separate thing. Though it does seem like a number of the posters here would fall into the group you mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:


Understood and agreed. However, aesthetically pleasing is a separate issue. I think most people can agree that it is not an aesthetically pleasing style. Understanding what is actually going on on the gameplay level is a separate thing. Though it does seem like a number of the posters here would fall into the group you mentioned.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  The better you are as a table tennis player, the better you appreciate the level of skill required to play like pushblocker almost to the point you begin to enjoy watching it.  In chess, we have similar considerations about how certain playing styles are considered "boring" but they can become beautiful in the eyes of someone who appreciates the kinds of gifts one has to have to play them.  So while I agree that the general audience won't find this as aesthetically pleasing as a looper vs chopper or looper vs looper battle, the question of rating is relevant as it does ask the question of whether the critic is at a playing level that enables him to appreciate the difficulty of the style. Of course, one can very well not be and that level and still be a critic.  But it is just a data point to consider and not always irrelevant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmileTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 3:07pm
If long pips is the easy route and the best, everyone would be using them! Imo, they are more difficult to use than inverted grippy rubbers. And Short pips probably the most difficult to use well, out of the three. 

How come no one complains about blades?  Surely a slower one is easier to use compared to OFF and OFF+ ones? People are just complaining because of the perceived advantage of pips. The only advantage they have over inverted users, is unfamiliarity. Similar to why lefties have some advantages. Pips can't even generate their own spin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 3:08pm
Just wanted to add something.. I highly doubt that most players who use inverted on both sides who have been between 1500 and 1800 would suddenly become 2000+ players if they would put pips on their racket and play pushblocking style.. If it was true that pips make you improve 3 levels or so, everyone would use pips and play pushblocking style.. Who wouldn't want to be 2000+ for 15+ years??
Of course, if you are a 1300 level player and you switch to pips, you may jump 200 points, maybe even 300.. However, the higher you get with that style, the more difficult it becomes and you can't fool anyone by just slapping a piece of long pips on your blade..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 3:35pm
If you consider a sport beautiful when it requires a young, super-fit athletic body to play, why you watching table tennis videos in the first place? Watch track and field, or diving.

Pushblocker came to the club in my tiny town once and was kind enough to play a match with me. It was a short match as I was about 800 points lower rated. You may not find it beautiful, but to take a cross-court loop drive at his bh and block it so it hooked off my wide fh line was certainly an eye-opener.

The thing about lp being unfair is just stupid whining. They are allowed, end of story. Seriously if you aren't tough enough to deal with the rules of table tennis just give up competitive sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 3:38pm
Nah. Don't while. Complain about short serves and short pushes. Those mess up the game and should be banned.   Anything that bounces twice on the opponent's table should lose the point.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/08/2017 at 8:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 4:24pm
Interesting reading :)

I would be interested to see a video of 'Pushblocker' playing against a similar rated chopper. 
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