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Nittaku Factive Review

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2017 at 12:18pm
Factive is interesting, as a medium-hard tensioned rubber lighter than 44g glued.
I cannot think of another.

Edit:
I meant of medium hardness. I only found medium-soft tension rubbers,
i.e. Vega Europe, being lighter than 44g.

Edited by pitigoi - 11/10/2017 at 2:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2017 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure.  I don't think it fits into the Fastarc line at all in terms of materials - the topsheet doesn't look like anything I've seen before, that I can remember anyway.  So not like M2/M1 because they were similar apart from sponge hardness.  But certainly a step down in hardness and speed on Fastarc P1, although not as big step as I had anticipated and - crucially - the spin is pretty much just as good.


This is the problem. No one knows what is the purpose of this rubber or most rubbers thrown into the marketplace. Vendor strategy seems to be to come up with new names for opaque technologies, throw it out into the marketplace, and see what happens.

A market strategy must first:

1) Identify a problem

2) Identity the target market

3) Identify how the new product solves the problem for the target market

4) Have the product reviewed/tested/endorsed by members of the target market?

TT marketing, is worse than pitiful.

I did run across a review of Factive on a Russian forum, and in a broken English translation, it appears that the rubber is targeted to entry level players looking to step into the ESN rubbers or those who are using ESN but want to practice with a rubber with more control.

As usual, the reviews were mixed about the rubber, the biggest issue being that there is nothing great to talk about, which is not unexpected, since a reviewer who is fine with the catapult of modern ESN is going to find all entry level rubbers lacking (e.g.Rozena). What the vendors need to do is get entry level players and/or their coaches to review entry level rubbers, but they don't. They just throw it out there into the be-wilderness of hundreds of other rubbers.

This rubber mat be just what I'm looking for - but I have no idea if it is.


Edited by richrf - 11/10/2017 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 10:52am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure.  I don't think it fits into the Fastarc line at all in terms of materials - the topsheet doesn't look like anything I've seen before, that I can remember anyway.  So not like M2/M1 because they were similar apart from sponge hardness.  But certainly a step down in hardness and speed on Fastarc P1, although not as big step as I had anticipated and - crucially - the spin is pretty much just as good.


This is the problem. No one knows what is the purpose of this rubber or most rubbers thrown into the marketplace. Vendor strategy seems to be to come up with new names for opaque technologies, throw it out into the marketplace, and see what happens.

No, you've misrepresented what I said there.  I was answering a specific question about if Factive fits directly into the Fastarc series.  I'm not sure because I'm not privy to how the rubbers are put together, the ingredients used, that kind of thing.  I've said I don't think so because it looks and plays differently but there's no way to be sure definitively, and that's not a failing of the marketing - it's just the way things are.  I don't expect Nittaku to give me this information beyond numerical evaluation of speed/spin and some descriptive text.  It would be great if they said - hey guys, this is Baracuda's old sponge with Vega Japan's topsheet - but there are obvious reasons why this won't fly.

As for the rest of it, I think you're just wrong about this particular rubber.  You seem to have an axe to grind, which is fine of course (and you're not wrong about TT marketing in general IMO), but Nittaku have done quite a lot to position Factive and inform potential customers (rubber matrix, press and forum reviews, video reviews and so on).  Unfortunately, most of that has happened in Nittaku's major market - Japan.  They're a Japanese company after all.

You just seem focused on the name more than anything else.  You want to know if it would work for you - well, read the back of the packet.  What do you think?

About Nittaku - they really do put a boatload of effort into this stuff, but it is unfortunately in Japanese.  Have a look at the product page - 


We have numbers, descriptions, a mini review, and some really cool PDF files towards the bottom that basically give you the info you want I think.  Sure, it's a shame there aren't english language versions of those, but it's Nittaku's decision to focus on their home territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 10:57am
I've looked all over (even French forums) for information and positioning about Factive and came up with nothing. If Nittaku is only concerned with the Japanese market, I wish them all the luck competing against Rozena, of which there is tons of information. Sorry, I don't read Japanese.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

I've looked all over (even French forums) for information and positioning about Factive and came up with nothing. If Nittaku is only concerned with the Japanese market, I wish them all the luck competing against Rozena, of which there is tons of information. Sorry, I don't read Japanese.

I know, that's not your fault of course.  Nittaku has its focus and I presume they make decisions for their own reasons.  You can read an english-language catalog here...


...but their focus is certainly on their home market.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2018 at 6:33pm
Does "Made in Germany" essentially mean "Made by ESN" when it comes to rubber?

Edited by Dream1700 - 02/19/2018 at 6:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2018 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by Dream1700 Dream1700 wrote:

Does "<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Made in Germany" essentially mean "Made by ESN" when it comes to rubber?</span>

Yes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2018 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Factive is interesting, as a medium-hard tensioned rubber lighter than 44g glued.
I cannot think of another.

Edit:
I meant of medium hardness. I only found medium-soft tension rubbers,
i.e. Vega Europe, being lighter than 44g.

I played a little against a robot with Vega Europe and Factive in the same thickness (1.8mm) on the same blade (twiddling). To be honest, often I can't even tell them apart. Factive feels a bit more crisp on power drives (probably due to harder sponge). Factive also lacks Vega's catapult. Spin generation seems similar.  At this point (and it is still early days in my testing the setup) I actually prefer Factive to Vega because I find Vega's catapult more annoying than helpful.

I am around 1300 strength (West Coast, which is about 2000 on the East Coast scale)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2018 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Dream1700 Dream1700 wrote:

I am around 1300 strength (West Coast, which is about 2000 on the East Coast scale

How did you arrive at this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2018 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by Dream1700 Dream1700 wrote:

I am around 1300 strength (West Coast, which is about 2000 on the East Coast scale

How did you arrive at this?

Via time-honored WAG ('wild a** guess') technique, I presume.

For what it's worth - I played quite a few ~1500 West coasties at US Open and did not lose once as a lowly 1750 East coast player. 

50-100 point  difference I might be convinced (but you still need to show me some data, anecdotes are not enough) - 700 is a silly joke. 

P.S. Most of the time when someone says they are 'around XXXX strength', this usually means they don't actually have a rating, but 'estimate' themselves to be at that level. IMHO, of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2018 at 1:06pm
sorry, I was just joking about the rating difference Embarrassed

~1300 is the best estimate I could come up with since I am returning to TT after a long hiatus. once I play a few more tournaments and polish up on my skills I will report back with better estimate. 


Edited by Dream1700 - 02/27/2018 at 1:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2018 at 12:16pm
thanks for the review
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