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Help explain strange experience with my SP

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mjamja View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/11/2017 at 10:21pm
So today I drove 300 miles round trip for 4 hours playing time with some better players at the San Antonio TT club.  I had a strange experience with my short pips (Spectol Red 2.0 mm) and hope the forum might have some insights into what was going on.

I have been working on  backing  away from the table about 7-8 Ft when trying to rally with loopers who back off the table that much or more.  Trying to take the ball at top of the bounce (but sometimes slightly dropping) instead of my normal style of very close to table and taking balls right off the bounce.  I had been concentrating on my Fh counter-loop.  But since I can not force my opponents to hit only to my Fh when I am back off the table I figured I should get in some practice with the Bh from that distance.

The first player I worked with was a left handed hitter/counter-driver who hit the ball quite fast at me but with only light topspin.  I was hitting almost all the balls at the top of the bounce and even though I was off the table I still felt rushed by some of his harder shots.  After a short adjustment period I did pretty good at rallying with the pips from that distance.  Nothing really forcing, but could stay in rallies and strong enough that he did not just kill the first return from the pips.

The second player I hit with was a college student rated near 2100.  He was hitting from farther back from the table and with a lot more spin.  His shots never seemed fast and I never felt rushed, but of course I had lots of trouble making good contact because the ball trajectory was so different than I am used to seeing.  However, a lot of the time when I did make what I thought was good contact, the ball was just going into the bottom of the net.  Sometimes I even felt like the ball was slipping against the rubber.  It was kind of a milder version of the sensation that you get with a wet racket contact.

This is the first time I have tried hitting from that far back against someone who spins the ball that much.  So is the problem most likely just my timing being so bad, a need for a different technique with the pips from a distance (maybe flatter contact or maybe more grazing contact), or is this one of the limiting factors that gives rise to people talking about how poor pips perform away from the table?  Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Mark - Finally counter-looping with the Fh only to discover he has no Bh at that distance.
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GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2017 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

or is this one of the limiting factors that gives rise to people talking about how poor pips perform away from the table? 


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smackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 5:38am
So a older at the table player player using a thinner short pips to loop 8 feet away from the table
for a trial and the ball did not always go over.....

 nah sorry can't work it out either
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

So a older at the table player player using a thinner short pips to loop 8 feet away from the table
for a trial and the ball did not always go over.....

 nah sorry can't work it out either
 

 First I was not trying to counter-loop with the pips.  I was just trying to drive the ball back with fairly flat (but not totally flat contact).  Secondly, the main point of the post was not that I was hitting into the net but that there was such a great difference in my success against the flatter drives vs against the spiny loops.  I expected to hit more balls long against the loops vs the drives but it was just the opposite.  And finally there was this strange slipping sensation that I had never felt before.

Although I did not ask it directly I was wondering how to try to structure my game against off the table loopers (which I am starting to face more often as I play in higher rating events).  It was suggested that I need to back off the table more and that certainly helped with forehand counter-looping.  However it seems that presents a much greater problem with the pips Bh than I expected.  

So is it more likely that I improve more by working (more practice time) on the off the bounce counter-loop and stay closer to the table to help with the backhand or is there more hope in working harder on learning to use the pips from off the table and thus make it much easier to Fh counter-loop?

Of course it is most likely that there is no hope at all for me and I should switch to shuffleboard.

Mark - Hopeless in Seattle (well 2600 miles from Seattle)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 1:35pm
It is probably the pips stalling. If an incoming ball has strong spin and the pips are aligned against the ball in the same direction of the spin, it may stall and act more like long pips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 4:36pm
SP are a major liability away from the table. They become very unpredictable,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 5:57pm
Good info. Seems I should work more on off bounce Fh counter-loop so I can stay closer and use my existing SP Bh strokes.

Thanks

Mark - AKA Old guy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 1:24pm
Yep, even Tang Peng has to chop with his SP when he is backed up.


But then again, you're probably not gonna face Lee Sang Su anytime soon.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Yep, even Tang Peng has to chop with his SP when he is backed up.


But then again, you're probably not gonna face Lee Sang Su anytime soon.  Smile

But I do have to face the famously fast and furious fuselage of forehand attacks from VanJr each and every week.  Smile

Thanks for the video.  I will try and look up more of his play.  Someone mentioned him before, but I had forgotten the name.

Mark


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Chairman Meow Chairman Meow wrote:

It is probably the pips stalling. If an incoming ball has strong spin and the pips are aligned against the ball in the same direction of the spin, it may stall and act more like long pips.
 yes.Smile
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mjamja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 2:20pm
I have been working the last few sessions on getting back about 3-4 Ft from the table for rallies.  I have a bad habit of staying very close to table (1ft) after serving or staying at receive depth after returning serve.  Just getting back to 3ft seems like it gives me so much more time than I had been getting.  It still feels like I take most balls on the rise but not so much right off the bounce.  The SP Bh seems much more solid and consistent at this distance than from farther back.  The Fh counter-loop seems even better at this distance than from farther back since I can still employ that shorter stroke form I am more comfortable using.  But being just that little bit farther back makes me much more consistent.  And I still seem to surprise opponents with the quickness with which the counter-loop comes back at them.

Again, thanks for all the feedback.  I will keep working on it and let you know the results.

Mark
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