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FZD's service toss

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    Posted: 11/13/2017 at 5:37am
I posted this question in the pro's equipment thread already but no one's biting so I'll try my luck here. 

Is FZD's service toss illegal? Looks to me like he's throwing the ball up with his fingers rather than just the open palm of his hand. 



Part of the reason why I ask is because it was recently pointed out to me that I let the ball rest in the crevice where middle finger and ring finger meet the palm and have since started changing my service toss. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 5:41am
I´m more interested in his new blade... I mean, his new handle. Which one is this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 5:46am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

I´m more interested in his new blade... I mean, his new handle. Which one is this?

Fang Bo 2 is what the fetishists seem to be saying. 

Now back on topic: What about his service toss?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 6:18am
yes in that picture his service toss would be illegal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 8:36am
The rule concerning server's Free Hand was loosen a bit since a time ago.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73094&PID=897384&title=service-rules#897384
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 9:07am
Igor is correct. ITTF says umpires should not call that. This again highlights that to answer questions ITTF has several documents. There are numerous technical bulletins, guides for umpires and match officials, guides for ITTF constitution and organization and meetings and elections, lists of approved balls and rackst coverings, as well as Laws of Table Tennis. You sometimes have to go to more than one place to find the official guidance. They update them from time to time, approximately yearly.   I have a thread stickied where I posted links to all of the various ITTF documents that address all kinds of stuff like this but since ITTF changed their websites the links are obsolete. At some point I will take a few hours to update them.

So his hand is ok as long as it is above the table and stationary. Not long ago there was a thread about a French player whose serve is illegal because his toss hand is never really stationary. Also see Ding Ning in Olympic final. A top US player used to get called because he would drop his hand below the table before tossing it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I posted this question in the pro's equipment thread already but no one's biting so I'll try my luck here. 

Is FZD's service toss illegal? Looks to me like he's throwing the ball up with his fingers rather than just the open palm of his hand. 



Part of the reason why I ask is because it was recently pointed out to me that I let the ball rest in the crevice where middle finger and ring finger meet the palm and have since started changing my service toss. 




dima plays with rubbers that are overhanging at least 2mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 9:27am
Baal, the ball is not resting in his palm though. I have been warned for this in the past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 9:40am
mog111's interpretation is the current guidance
>60yo, losing weight 30 pounds to go

Xiom ZX1 (Blade) + DHS hurricane H3/H8 (rubbers)

When all else fails, there is always delusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 10:02am
Only if you choose to ignore what ITTF advises.

Mog you cant say that from a static photo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 10:12am
all im saying is the ball is not resting in his palm, maybe he moves it to his palm before he starts his serve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dajdosta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 4:40pm
You mean in a palm but below table sutface level like this?
123.JPG
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by dajdosta dajdosta wrote:

You mean in a palm but below table sutface level like this?
123.JPG
Since Dima got called for that in a T2Apac league game he's worked at changing his backhand serve to make it fully legal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2018 at 7:10pm
due to older people and arthritis many people can't straighten their palm well and thus ittf has relaxed the rule that the ball has to completely rest on the fingers...that is the latest i heard
Stiga Clipper Wood, Viscaria,BBC,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2018 at 1:19am
As I have stated 1000 times before: the palm rule vs what FZD is idiotic. It provides no advantage. Hiding the contact point is the real culprit.
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2018 at 8:05am
THE BEST OPTIMAL STARTING POINT.

   The very conjunction of the palm to fingers is the best comfortable seat of the ball. . It prevents the ball from rolling off the server's hand, and makes the tossing action much easier to do. ( and the high tossing in particular).

I do always feel myself somewhat ungainly every time the ball starts up from my palm's сentre spot.    So I shifted the starting point of the ball towards the fingers , same as FZD did, and I now able to keep my tossing sheer vertical 2 meter high.            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2018 at 8:23am
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

As I have stated 1000 times before: the palm rule vs what FZD is idiotic. It provides no advantage. Hiding the contact point is the real culprit.


Without question. And this is why FZD and all the other pros who do the same thing are never called for it, and why ITTF specifically guided match officials that it is ok (as Igor already mentioned).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2018 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

I´m more interested in his new blade... I mean, his new handle. Which one is this?


Fang Bo 2 is what the fetishists seem to be saying. 

Now back on topic: What about his service toss?

He will be called if he play in US Natiional. Just ask Wang Chen. Now back to a more serious topic. Are you sure it’s Fang Bo 2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2018 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

As I have stated 1000 times before: the palm rule vs what FZD is idiotic. It provides no advantage. Hiding the contact point is the real culprit.


Without question. And this is why FZD and all the other pros who do the same thing are never called for it, and why ITTF specifically guided match officials that it is ok (as Igor already mentioned).


It is one of those calls that are 70/30.
No video reference, however, I have seen several calls (warnings mostly) for throws starting from that palm/finger joint.
The guidance is referring to where the ball is cupped but located in the middle of the palm.
The palm/finger joint location is a no no, but yes, players tend to get away with it (that's the 70) if the rest of the serve action is ok.


>60yo, losing weight 30 pounds to go

Xiom ZX1 (Blade) + DHS hurricane H3/H8 (rubbers)

When all else fails, there is always delusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarmonicTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2018 at 11:23am
It is not a fang bo 2 carbon..... You actually believe that crap
It's a custom made w968 with handles....
Same thing with wang haos and even Zhang jike(different blade but he uses viscaria handles lol)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2018 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by HarmonicTT HarmonicTT wrote:

It is not a fang bo 2 carbon..... You actually believe that crap
It's a custom made w968 with handles....
Same thing with wang haos and even Zhang jike(different blade but he uses viscaria handles lol)


It makes no sense at all that Zhang Jike would use some sort of custom blade but with Viscaria handles to fool people.  If that was happening, he would most certainly attach the handles of one of the even more expensive Butterfly blades that actually HAS HIS NAME ON IT. 

Back on topic, I certainly have not watched every TT match on Youtube, but I have personally never seen anyone called for that particular violation and so thew 70/30 number is not something I would accept for international or world tour events.  Maybe in the UK it is different and it is more strict.  Wouldn't surprise me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/04/2018 at 11:26am
Yes, I was referring to UK events which I saw live.
>60yo, losing weight 30 pounds to go

Xiom ZX1 (Blade) + DHS hurricane H3/H8 (rubbers)

When all else fails, there is always delusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fortunateluck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2018 at 6:45am
peace sells but who's buying it
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