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Longer lasting higher performance rubbers?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

No rubber is going to last 2-3 years if you play with any regularity and at any level above novice.


Rich Dewitt might disagree with you. But he is a special kind of player.


Rich has an excellent game which matches perfectly with his own laid back demeanor. Very nice guy who developed a style that suits him well. I know many players in my club who use ESN rubbers for long periods of time. They like it as it wears in. None that I've come across that are suitable for me which is why I asked, the closest being G1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't know if you would consider Karis M a high performance rubber because of its extreme linearity, but the stuff lasts for ever; actually it really doesn't begin to play right until you have about three weeks on it.  Then it just goes and goes and goes.


Thanks Baal, for reminding me of this possibility. I remember reading one of your reviews describing the long durability of Karis. It probably is made by the same factory as Calibra with updated characteristics. For a good mix of spin, control, and middle distance speed, would you recommend a good 5-ply like Infinity VPS, a 7-ply, or some composite blade? Thanks!


It needs to be on a composite IMHO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

"Everyone has multiple sports jerseys, tennis players use different rackets or similar rackets strung to similar or different tensions with various combinations of strings and natural gut and different balls are used at different tournaments as well. Golf players also change equipment as it suits them."

Pro golfers do not typically change clubs during a season. They are on an endorsement contract. Some try different putters, but not usually woods and irons.

Some amateur golfers do change clubs frewuently. Many do not. I have played the same golf clubs for many years.

The big difference between golf and tt is that any motivated golfer can find a pro shop and use a swing analyzer to get objective data. The analyzer will tell you if you hit a new club longer,straighter, higher, lower. You can determine the optimal specs for your swing speed. For the vast majority of amateur golfers, the optimal specs are not remotely close to what pros use.

Same for tennis, if you want to make a change, there are ways to get data. Can you hit serves at 120+ mph, FH at 100+ mph, and BH at 90+ mph? If not, then playing with Federer's exact specs is a terrible idea. Fed added length to his frame last year and said it took him several months to adjust to the change.


This is a good point. When I purchase golf clubs or a new tennis racket, there were different ways to try before buy, but I rarely changed because there was no reason to. Equipment was built to last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't know if you would consider Karis M a high performance rubber because of its extreme linearity, but the stuff lasts for ever; actually it really doesn't begin to play right until you have about three weeks on it.  Then it just goes and goes and goes.


Thanks Baal, for reminding me of this possibility. I remember reading one of your reviews describing the long durability of Karis. It probably is made by the same factory as Calibra with updated characteristics. For a good mix of spin, control, and middle distance speed, would you recommend a good 5-ply like Infinity VPS, a 7-ply, or some composite blade? Thanks!


It needs to be on a composite IMHO. 


Thanks Baal. I thought so but wanted to hear your opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

No rubber is going to last 2-3 years if you play with any regularity and at any level above novice.

Rich Dewitt might disagree with you. But he is a special kind of player.
even rich dewitt changes his rubber every 9-12 moths
rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

No rubber is going to last 2-3 years if you play with any regularity and at any level above novice.


Rich Dewitt might disagree with you. But he is a special kind of player.

even rich dewitt changes his rubber every 9-12 moths


Possibly, but that is not what he told me the last time we talked a couple of years ago. Maybe it's like pro's equipment - top secret. ☺
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2017 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Forum member chop4ever’s reviver product can do wonders, certainly enough to get decent spin relatively to the mindset you describe: true table tennis played casual.


Thanks fatt. I'll look into it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:



It needs to be on a composite IMHO. 


Hi Baal,

I decided to try out to sheets of Nexy Karis.

My choice of blades it's either the Rossi Emotion or Donic True Carbon. I believe you have tried out both. Any comparison that you can provide? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 9:52am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:



It needs to be on a composite IMHO. 


Hi Baal,

I decided to try out to sheets of Nexy Karis.

My choice of blades it's either the Rossi Emotion or Donic True Carbon. I believe you have tried out both. Any comparison that you can provide? I know the RE is inner and the TC is a fast, hard outer. Is RE adequate or do I need the extra speed of the TC? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 9:58am
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

"Everyone has multiple sports jerseys, tennis players use different rackets or similar rackets strung to similar or different tensions with various combinations of strings and natural gut and different balls are used at different tournaments as well. Golf players also change equipment as it suits them."

Pro golfers do not typically change clubs during a season. They are on an endorsement contract. Some try different putters, but not usually woods and irons.

Some amateur golfers do change clubs frequently. Many do not. I have played the same golf clubs for many years.

The big difference between golf and tt is that any motivated golfer can find a pro shop and use a swing analyzer to get objective data. The analyzer will tell you if you hit a new club longer,straighter, higher, lower. You can determine the optimal specs for your swing speed. For the vast majority of amateur golfers, the optimal specs are not remotely close to what pros use.

Same for tennis, if you want to make a change, there are ways to get data. Can you hit serves at 120+ mph, FH at 100+ mph, and BH at 90+ mph? If not, then playing with Federer's exact specs is a terrible idea. Fed added length to his frame last year and said it took him several months to adjust to the change.


Most people changing equipment in a sport change it due to wear and tear and loss, or due to different playing conditions, not because they are doing so on a whim.  My point is that the idea that people change equipment in some ridiculous way in table tennis that is different from other sports is silly.

In table tennis, there are also ways to get data that are reasonably similar to golf.  The thing is that these things are not doing to define your game as much as your practice and play with equipment for a long time will given the complexity of table tennis.  Unfortunately, it takes people forever to accept this, and then some people get frustrated with their lack of improvement and do everything to talk around except put in the hours at the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 10:03am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:



It needs to be on a composite IMHO. 


Hi Baal,

I decided to try out to sheets of Nexy Karis.

My choice of blades it's either the Rossi Emotion or Donic True Carbon. I believe you have tried out both. Any comparison that you can provide? I know the RE is inner and the TC is a fast, hard outer. Is RE adequate or do I need the extra speed of the TC? Thanks.


Never tried the Rossi Emotion. Ask Next Level I think he has tried that one. I have only played Karis M with my Viscaria but DTC is a very similar blade. Karis needs a reasonably fast OFF class blade IMHO. Karis will make the blade very controllable while still allowing for big power when needed. But even then it will let you know when your stroke is lazy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote al_111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 10:17am
Calibra is pretty low throw, isn't it? If so, coming from Calibra, forget what I've said about Baracuda & T05 - there could be too much of an adjustment. If Karis does not work and you want to try Tenergy, you can probably go with T64.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 10:56am
Rossi Emotion is slower than the True Carbon.  More ALL+/OFF- and lower ranges of OFF when the carbon kicks in.  You need to lift weights if you play that with Karis unless you are really trying to keep the ball short.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 11:13am
@Baal Thanks. RE will probably not provide enough juice so I'll go with an outer.

@al_111 Thanks for he the additional advice. Calibra is low throw, but I find that I can adjust to Tenergy without much problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 11:15am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Rossi Emotion is slower than the True Carbon.  More ALL+/OFF- and lower ranges of OFF when the carbon kicks in.  You need to lift weights if you play that with Karis unless you are really trying to keep the ball short.


Thanks for the advice. It looks like I'll need an outer composite. Appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by al_111 al_111 wrote:

Calibra is pretty low throw, isn't it? If so, coming from Calibra, forget what I've said about Baracuda & T05 - there could be too much of an adjustment. If Karis does not work and you want to try Tenergy, you can probably go with T64.


what do you recomend for somebody who needs a rubber to last spinny soft not fast. I m afraid that most stores sell old batch mark v
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 4:44pm


[/QUOTE]

Most people changing equipment in a sport change it due to wear and tear and loss, or due to different playing conditions, not because they are doing so on a whim.  My point is that the idea that people change equipment in some ridiculous way in table tennis that is different from other sports is silly.

In table tennis, there are also ways to get data that are reasonably similar to golf.  The thing is that these things are not doing to define your game as much as your practice and play with equipment for a long time will given the complexity of table tennis.  Unfortunately, it takes people forever to accept this, and then some people get frustrated with their lack of improvement and do everything to talk around except put in the hours at the table.
[/QUOTE]

Well said NL.  Unfortunately many players find it easier and quicker to change equipment than to put in the extra hours on the table.  With so many different equipment combos they never run out of things to try. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:



Well said NL.  Unfortunately many players find it easier and quicker to change equipment than to put in the extra hours on the table.  With so many different equipment combos they never run out of things to try. 


Can I ask how often you change your rubber?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2017 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

No rubber is going to last 2-3 years if you play with any regularity and at any level above novice.


Rich Dewitt might disagree with you. But he is a special kind of player.


Rich has an excellent game which matches perfectly with his own laid back demeanor. Very nice guy who developed a style that suits him well. I know many players in my club who use ESN rubbers for long periods of time. They like it as it wears in. None that I've come across that are suitable for me which is why I asked, the closest being G1.

on a serious note, I'm curious to see how the original Andro Rasant holds up.

I have a sheet with > 50 hours of use on it and it plays remarkably well. 
Hope it's similar at the 100 hour mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stancuzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2017 at 6:46pm
Not very likely. After 70-80 hours the ball starts to slip pretty much like every other euro rubber.

Cheers, Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 12:26am
I'm definitely a mid level player, using the Seemiller grip, so take this for what it's worth.  If I'm playing tournaments or getting ready for tournaments, I probably change rubber after 2 months or so.  If not I can stretch it to 3 months (approx. 100 hours) for club play before I begin to miss the play of new rubber enough to change.  I keep older sheets around for backup blades (like for coaching or as loaners) that I also carry to the club.  After they retire from that, they are pretty much finished. 

Right now, there is nothing coming up, so I'm experimenting with other rubber I've purchased.  If nothing else this serves to remind me why I'm using my current equipment.  I always keep my standard setup handy in case I'm having a particularly tough time with something experimental on my blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 12:44am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't know if you would consider Karis M a high performance rubber because of its extreme linearity, but the stuff lasts for ever; actually it really doesn't begin to play right until you have about three weeks on it.  Then it just goes and goes and goes.

That was not my experience.  I bought six sheets, two of each hardness.  Five of them became fast anti within three months of play.  That's less than a month for each rubber sheet.  The topsheet loses grip rapidly and red seems to have about 60% of the duration of the black.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 1:31am
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't know if you would consider Karis M a high performance rubber because of its extreme linearity, but the stuff lasts for ever; actually it really doesn't begin to play right until you have about three weeks on it.  Then it just goes and goes and goes.


That was not my experience.  I bought six sheets, two of each hardness.  Five of them became fast anti within three months of play.  That's less than a month for each rubber sheet.  The topsheet loses grip rapidly and red seems to have about 60% of the duration of the black.

ILya


Your experience is personal, I had someone use a sheet for almost a year. I find that Karis also responds well to Revolution Rubber Rejuvenator so you can basically use that on it whenever you feel the initial tack is gone and get some more life out of the the rubber.

The one thing is that Karis is not a heavy spin rubber in the first place but the difference in performance over its life was negligible for me. I suspect for your technique, it lost its initial tack early.   But that initial tack is not what people rely on to loop and in any case if you care about that then use the Rejuvenator.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/24/2017 at 1:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote el luchador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 4:18am
from a science perspective,

rubbers lose oil as they age.

I know from first hand experience you can rejuvenate a non tacky rubber to almost new condition by adding back oils to the sponge. 

matter of fact it may play better than new for a week or two.

this will not do anything for the topsheet though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 6:43am
Originally posted by el luchador el luchador wrote:

from a science perspective,

rubbers lose oil as they age.

I know from first hand experience you can rejuvenate a non tacky rubber to almost new condition by adding back oils to the sponge. 

matter of fact it may play better than new for a week or two.

this will not do anything for the topsheet though

That is actually how my Reviver works. Thanks FATT to mention me here.
I vote for Sriver EL on carbon blade.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:


I vote for Sriver EL on carbon blade.



I was thinking that Sriver EL would not give me the + performance over Calibra LT that I was looking for. Do you agree? Right now I am considering LT Sound or Spin, but I don't think they will perform better than LT(maybe slightly better spin), once the initial 100 hrs has passed.

Unfortunately I had to give up on Nexy. Nexy needs to revisit their U.S. distributorship.

It's actually quite tough doing better than LT, but what keeps me trying it's that I know for sure I need a bump up in spin. Tenergy is obvious, only thing is that I don't like the feeling of isolation between the ball, blade and me. So I can't get myself to pull the trigger. Spin it's great though!

Edited by richrf - 11/24/2017 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote el luchador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2017 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by el luchador el luchador wrote:

from a science perspective,

rubbers lose oil as they age.

I know from first hand experience you can rejuvenate a non tacky rubber to almost new condition by adding back oils to the sponge. 

matter of fact it may play better than new for a week or two.

this will not do anything for the topsheet though

That is actually how my Reviver works. Thanks FATT to mention me here.
I vote for Sriver EL on carbon blade.


Ive found a little bit of household wd40 to work great for adding back oils into a sponge.

too much and the rubber gets boosted but a little and it gets rejuvenated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote al_111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2017 at 12:36am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Tenergy is obvious, only thing is that I don't like the feeling of isolation between the ball, blade and me. So I can't get myself to pull the trigger. Spin it's great though!
Thinner sponge, probably?..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2017 at 12:39am
Originally posted by al_111 al_111 wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Tenergy is obvious, only thing is that I don't like the feeling of isolation between the ball, blade and me. So I can't get myself to pull the trigger. Spin it's great though!
Thinner sponge, probably?..


Certainly a good idea. Something to mull over. At the club, I've only tried max since that is all that cZi could find.
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