Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Please help me settle a bet
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Please help me settle a bet

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Please help me settle a bet
    Posted: 12/06/2017 at 11:33pm
I was playing with a buddy of mine. I served a good serve. He calls let, I claim there was no let. This is just a friendly bet and there are no hard feelings but we need some fresh eyes to help us out. Also, pay attention to the shadow of the ball when the video zooms in, it helps to show the trajectory the ball takes.
Thank you.

Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 12:53am
Sometimes it's hard to tell with these videos because of the angle or lack of frames, but personally I'm going to go with no let. I didn't get the impression it was a net at all from the original speed.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 11810
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 1:23am
I am actually on the let side but that is just me.  IT's easy to be wrong about these things.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Tibhar Inca
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
patrickhrdlicka View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 765
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 1:46am
Gentlemen's sport: If in doubt, let.
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

USATT rating: 2k+
Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 1:53am
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

Gentlemen's sport: If in doubt, let.


Oh don't worry I gave him the let when it happened even though I thought he was incorrect. It's just now, after we have reviewed the footage, are we discussing whether or not it actually touched the net.
Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 478
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:19am
Since I record most of my matches, I've had so many situations where I was pretty sure it was a let, but after getting home and checking the footage, it was kind of ambiguous. And I always record in at 60fps too.
Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:45am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Since I record most of my matches, I've had so many situations where I was pretty sure it was a let, but after getting home and checking the footage, it was kind of ambiguous. And I always record in at 60fps too.


Yes, I can definitely understand forced perspective. But having said that, I still feel like there is more evidence pointing towards no let than let, at least in my opinion.
Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 3:17am
no let
DHS H301 (84g) / Palio King Yue (82g)
FH Rubber: 729 Battle II
BH Rubber: Palio AK47 Blue
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 5664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 3:49am
Half long serve that barely got past the end line must mean the ball has touched the net!

TRUST ME!
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
haggisv View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar
Dark Knight

Joined: 06/28/2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4673
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 3:49am
I couldn't see any evidence of the ball touching the net either.
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
Tenergy Alternatives | My TT Articles
Back to Top
king_pong View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/29/2010
Location: Minneapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 794
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 4:07am
NO let. None.  I watched it through, several times at the different speeds.  Your first bounce appears quite forceful, maybe 12-14 in. inside your end line.  The bounce is generous, appearing to clear the net by a good 2-3" in this footage.  It then appears to land about mid-court on your opponents side.  There is NO WAY that a let would have resulted from that serve. 

All of this could be optical illusion to me, but I'd venture that your opponent is the one with the optical illusion in this case. Big smile
Donic Waldner (FL): fh/bh - Yasaka Mark V HPS
Back to Top
alphapong View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 439
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 4:54am
I think you named your video appropriately.
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 7:27am
no let.

The ball was nowhere near the net.

Thanks for the close up!!

FdT
Back to Top
passifid View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/22/2015
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 106
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote passifid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 7:46am
I think no let, I cannot tell becuase of frames to look if it touched but i cannot see any change in trajectory of the ball, if it was a let i would expect it to either deflect up or stall down from its initial trajectory but it seemed to fly clean, however it might have grazed it just there is no way to be conclusive.
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2496
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 8:00am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

I couldn't see any evidence of the ball touching the net either.

Same here, but I think your friend really thought it was a let, and did not attempt to return the serve at all, so it's not exactly cheating per se.


Edited by mhnh007 - 12/07/2017 at 8:02am
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 11810
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 8:58am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

I couldn't see any evidence of the ball touching the net either.
Why does the ball slow down when it hits the other side? Heavy backspin?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Tibhar Inca
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/22/2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 339
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 9:36am
The serve appears to be side/under so it's possible that underspin caused it to slow down when it hits his side of the table.  If your friend thought it was a let, he should have called it when he believed it hit the net.  Rather, he starts a motion to perform a return.  When he sees that he can't make an adequate return, he then calls a let.  I wouldn't go so far as to call him a cheater, but his let response is highly suspect.
Back to Top
BeaverMD View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/09/2007
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 10:43am
The ball did not hit the net but appears to have taken a bad bounce when it landed on his side of the table.  It did not look like a normal trajectory.  He should have lost the point but I do see why he called let.  I don't think Wenyin was trying to cheat and you really should be careful when you label people for the whole world to see.
Back to Top
flatstyk View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/31/2012
Location: central US
Status: Offline
Points: 64
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatstyk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 10:47am
At full speed it looks clean, but at slowest if one looks full screen at the edge of the net to our left of the ball as it goes over (at this resolution it is somewhat pixelated) you can see the pixels "jump" or flicker on the net edge.  That has to mean that ball slightly touched the net.  Let.
OSP Ultimate C-pen

FH MX-P

BH Waran
Back to Top
AL_in_MN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/13/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AL_in_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 11:34am
Does your "buddy" have a pattern of making sketchy let calls like this? If not, give him the benefit of the doubt for an honest mistake and play on, otherwise avoid playing with the cheater until he gets the message.
Blade:Yinhe W-1
Rubber:Air Illumina 2.1

Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 12:01pm
so what do we win on this bet? Wink

FdT

Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Half long serve that barely got past the end line must mean the ball has touched the net!

TRUST ME!


You're a mind reader! I think this is exactly what happened.
Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
Tinykin View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/30/2003
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2034
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

The ball did not hit the net but appears to have taken a bad bounce when it landed on his side of the table.  It did not look like a normal trajectory.  He should have lost the point but I do see why he called let.  I don't think Wenyin was trying to cheat and you really should be careful when you label people for the whole world to see.


As an umpire in the celluloid days, one the cues for a possible net was if the ball wobbled when close to the net. These days I have to be very careful. The ball sometimes wobbles when close to the net or not.


Edited by Tinykin - 12/07/2017 at 2:14pm
>60yo, 60lbs overweight

Darker Speed 90 + T05/T05

When all else fails, there is always delusion.
Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by AL_in_MN AL_in_MN wrote:

Does your "buddy" have a pattern of making sketchy let calls like this? If not, give him the benefit of the doubt for an honest mistake and play on, otherwise avoid playing with the cheater until he gets the message.


No, he does not have that pattern. Even though it wasn't a let I still gave it to him since that is the right thing to do. He's a good person.
Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

so what do we win on this bet? Wink

FdT



Loser buys the winner a pint of ice cream. Thanks everyone for helping me get ice cream Beer
Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
coffeeholic View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/08/2016
Location: california
Status: Offline
Points: 88
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coffeeholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:38pm
no let. if you look at where the ball and net overlap in the video, it occurs at 2 points:

1. on its way up: this is not possible. when the net/ball cross each other on the frame, the ball is still clearly on the server's side. there's a shadow under the ball that indicates this

2. on its way down: also not possible. when the ball crosses the net on the frame on its way down, it's pretty much bouncing on the table midway between the net and receiver. the ball cannot touch the net AND the middle of the table at the same time.

in between the 2 frames, the ball is above the net.


Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control!
Back to Top
JediJesseS View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 06/02/2016
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JediJesseS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 3:32pm
The ball looks like it changed its trajectory from either the net or a bad bounce on the table. But let or no let you lose because you made an enormous deal out of nothing, labeled your "buddy" a cheater, and then spent time compiling an insulting video for the internet. All over what should be a very casual, friendly match between two low level players.

This is how you treat a friend? Seems as though you would be an exasperating person to play with. I'd spend more time thinking about why you are acting this way than if the let call was accurate or not. Is their bad blood between you and your "buddy" that needs to be talked out? Do you care too much about winning these casual matches instead of playing to improve? Would you let a call tilt you this badly in a real match? Adjusting your attitude might produce some good long term results.
Back to Top
ZingyDNA View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2100
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 3:59pm
Oh come on if they're buddies this is nothing.

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

The ball looks like it changed its trajectory from either the net or a bad bounce on the table. But let or no let you lose because you made an enormous deal out of nothing, labeled your "buddy" a cheater, and then spent time compiling an insulting video for the internet. All over what should be a very casual, friendly match between two low level players.

This is how you treat a friend? Seems as though you would be an exasperating person to play with. I'd spend more time thinking about why you are acting this way than if the let call was accurate or not. Is their bad blood between you and your "buddy" that needs to be talked out? Do you care too much about winning these casual matches instead of playing to improve? Would you let a call tilt you this badly in a real match? Adjusting your attitude might produce some good long term results.
Back to Top
GeneralSpecific View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/01/2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

The ball looks like it changed its trajectory from either the net or a bad bounce on the table. But let or no let you lose because you made an enormous deal out of nothing, labeled your "buddy" a cheater, and then spent time compiling an insulting video for the internet. All over what should be a very casual, friendly match between two low level players.

This is how you treat a friend? Seems as though you would be an exasperating person to play with. I'd spend more time thinking about why you are acting this way than if the let call was accurate or not. Is their bad blood between you and your "buddy" that needs to be talked out? Do you care too much about winning these casual matches instead of playing to improve? Would you let a call tilt you this badly in a real match? Adjusting your attitude might produce some good long term results.


Wow such aggression. He knows about the video and he knows I posted here. Nothing was done behind his back. What a bizarre post with so many assumptions. This was a friendly bet and the winner is literally getting ice cream.


Edited by GeneralSpecific - 12/07/2017 at 4:00pm
Blade - Butterfly Joo Saehyuk ST
Forehand - Xiom Omega 5 Asia
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF
Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: us
Status: Offline
Points: 491
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

The ball looks like it changed its trajectory from either the net or a bad bounce on the table. But let or no let you lose because you made an enormous deal out of nothing, labeled your "buddy" a cheater, and then spent time compiling an insulting video for the internet. All over what should be a very casual, friendly match between two low level players.

This is how you treat a friend? Seems as though you would be an exasperating person to play with. I'd spend more time thinking about why you are acting this way than if the let call was accurate or not. Is their bad blood between you and your "buddy" that needs to be talked out? Do you care too much about winning these casual matches instead of playing to improve? Would you let a call tilt you this badly in a real match? Adjusting your attitude might produce some good long term results.
Hey bro its a lot more likely they're friends both curious to hear the internet's opinion and the video title was banter/a joke, but great analysis Clap
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer