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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 10:49am
The player who got his Viscaria directly from Btfly, for free, was 2600+ at the time I tried his blade and found it to be pretty much the same as several that I have sitting in my closet.  In fact, very good.

The one thing I will say in defense of Rich about the DTC is there is more variability in the playing properties than I would like based on the ones I have played with (I own two, have played with probably four).  I have never had two Viscarias that differ as much as the two DTC blades I have, and I have owned way too many.  But to say that all ALC blades are like toys? 

Nope.  I don't think that opinion will get any traction!  And I know for a fact that it is not because better players get better blades.  I am a nobody in this sport and I have some great blades.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 11:30am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

It's funny that you are commenting about the "robustness" and "character" of a blade that you never actually hit with. You say in this thread you have tried your True Carbon but on your for sale post you advertise it as never used so you should probably account for that discrepancy. If you are so wise to "know a crap blade when you see one" then why all the equipment question threads? And if you're defining "top player" as 2500+, yes, most of them do get their blades from the same sources as online retailers. 

I would be curious to know the details of a player who can't even see a world where ALC is a viable choice for many. 


Equipment threads exist to induce buying, just like this thread. My advice to other players are to hold on to and take care of blades that they like (especially older ones) and purchase only through sources with which they have developed good relationships. This will help minimize monetary losses. A good review for the Donic True Carbon or some of the other blades I've tried (including ALC blades) would be the reviewer tossing the blade in a trash can. 😃 Yet, I never see such review though they should exist.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 12:30pm
A bad blade is a blade that a good player with decent technique struggles to make shots with even after adjusting with practice.  There are very few truly bad commercial blades.   I prefer the lighter True Carbons to the heavier ones (I re-sold/gave away the heavier ones), but that is because I tend to prefer a certain set up weight and use heavier rubbers and grip tape.

IT's very easy to pick up a blade and not like it. The late great Barry Dattel told me that he didn't like his Keyshot when he first got it.  And then he wasn't sure about it.  And then he beat a top player (Brian Masters) with it and then he really liked it.

When you hear a story like that, you realize how silly it is to come around on a web board spouting uninformed opinion about equipment as facts - unless the goal is to troll of course.

IT's one of the reasons I Try to put up video or explain the characteristics of what I use and talk about my playing preferences and level.  All those things affect how you view equipment, especially when the parameters are not fully specified.  We might get to a scientific point where features can be specified physically and that will be sufficiently correlated with feel to make subjectivity less of an issue, but right now, people like richrf should speak more about their ignorance than their knowledge.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:


...
I apologize for disrupting the purpose of this marketing video. 😃

It is a marketing video indeed, but its purpose is not to market ALC blades per se, it is to advertise OP's YouTube channel. The idea is to attract eyeballs, whether you do it by discussing ALC blades, ESN rubbers, or latest and greatest LP/anti. Whatever works.









Edited by pgpg - 12/11/2017 at 12:44pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:



This is as bizarre a post as I have seen in a long time. It sounds trollish or sock puppet like. Online stores for table tennis have allowed table tennis players access to quality products that was unattainable for almost everyone in this board. The brick and mortar stores have and continue to sell the least quality crap. How many table tennis products do you buy in stores now???


I've literally thrown out 90% or more of the stuff I've purchased online. I've kept a sheet of Calibra and Phenix. By far the best equipment I've ever had were the blades and rubbers purchased for me by my coaches in Chicago via their channels. (They were US rated 2500+ and 2700+). For the most part online purchases are an expensive gamble which can probably best be described as unwilling EJing.

Unfortunately, I no longer have no access to reliable channels so I threw away $160 and will continue to play with my 8 year old setup because I can find no better. No big deal.My old Calibra plays like a Mark V which is good enough. After all it is the practice that counts not the equipment.
Perhaps you are used to your Calibra, there are many rubbers that objectively outperform it, esp. a used one. As mentioned if you took the time to get used to T05 or MXP you would undoubtedly get better performance imo
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:


Perhaps you are used to your Calibra, there are many rubbers that objectively outperform it, esp. a used one. As mentioned if you took the time to get used to T05 or MXP you would undoubtedly get better performance imo


Objectively??? You realize if course there are many, many Calibra users that will disagree. In anycase, I have no idea whether the Calibra I bought 8 years ago had anything to do with the Calibra I might buy today. Table tennis equipment purchase is a minefield. I have no interest at all in purchasing and repurchasing ESN or Tenergy rubbers every three months simply to line the pockets of manufacturers or retail outlets. My 8 year old Calibra with my beautiful 8 year old Diamond Q blade (I underscore that they are 8 years old and my or may not have anything to do with this year's model) will suffice. I'll just practice more.

P.S. I so much regret giving away my old Masunov blade. 😢

Edited by richrf - 12/11/2017 at 1:18pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:



Equipment threads exist to induce buying, just like this thread....... A good review for the Donic True Carbon or some of the other blades I've tried (including ALC blades) would be the reviewer tossing the blade in a trash can. 😃 Yet, I never see such review though they should exist.


No they don't.  They exist so that people can find information about blades, rubbers, balls, etc.  that they might want to buy*.  My distinct impression is that you yourself have created about seventy gazillion threads requesting information about this or that.  Just sayin'.

When I have created threads about this or that piece of equipment, I am completely indifferent about people actually buying something or taking my adviceI am not a  TT company, don't work for them, don't get free stuff from them, and my feelings aren't hurt if other people don't like the stuff that  I like.  I honestly don't care. If they find something they DO like, that is good.  I think most of us here feel the same way.

I definitely don't like it when people post stuff that is objectively wrong, but usually that comes up in discussions about balls.


*As to whether that information actually helps them find something they eventually like, well maybe not as much as we would all hope, although as a site moderator maybe I should not be encouraged to say that.






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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 3:07pm
Butterfly Please Take My Money! Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

It's funny that you are commenting about the "robustness" and "character" of a blade that you never actually hit with. You say in this thread you have tried your True Carbon but on your for sale post you advertise it as never used so you should probably account for that discrepancy. If you are so wise to "know a crap blade when you see one" then why all the equipment question threads? And if you're defining "top player" as 2500+, yes, most of them do get their blades from the same sources as online retailers. 

I would be curious to know the details of a player who can't even see a world where ALC is a viable choice for many. 


Equipment threads exist to induce buying, just like this thread. My advice to other players are to hold on to and take care of blades that they like (especially older ones) and purchase only through sources with which they have developed good relationships. This will help minimize monetary losses. A good review for the Donic True Carbon or some of the other blades I've tried (including ALC blades) would be the reviewer tossing the blade in a trash can. 😃 Yet, I never see such review though they should exist.

Sound advice no doubt. But that you are happy with an 8 year old rubber, but were immediately turned off by giving any chance to an ALC blade means you are the outlier, not everyone else. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 4:56pm
Unless you play anti spin, 8 year old rubber is a bad idea
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Unless you play anti spin, 8 year old rubber is a bad idea


A worse idea would be to play with the junk I just bought and an even worse idea would be to keep paying hundreds upon hundreds of dollars looking for some needle in the haystack. I'm OK where I'm at. Today I played with a $10 cheapo at the University and it was fine after a little adjustment.

But as it looks like I won't be able to sell it, I'll play with it for just a tiny bit before giving it away to someone at the University, maybe as a tournament prize. I want to keep it fresh so I'm not giving away some used stuff.

Edited by richrf - 12/11/2017 at 5:06pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Unless you play anti spin, 8 year old rubber is a bad idea


A worse idea would be to play with the junk I just bought and an even worse idea would be to keep paying hundreds upon hundreds of dollars looking for some needle in the haystack. I'm OK where I'm at. Today I played with a $10 cheapo at the University and it was fine after a little adjustment.

But as it looks like I won't be able to sell it, I'll play with it for just a tiny bit before giving it away to someone at the University, maybe as a tournament prize. I want to keep it fresh so I'm not giving away some used stuff.

Not sure if it applies in your case, but if you played with the same sheet of rubber for 8 years, pretty much anything new will play very different from what you are used to. Your strokes and muscle memory adapted to what you had, for better or worse. Perhaps it explains somewhat why you think new stuff was 'junk' and why it was so easy to adjust to $10 cheapo paddle in your example above. 

I was in the same boat 4 years ago, when I finally got rid of my very old BTY 301 premade after joining the club, by that time it had very little grip, not antispin-slick, but close, and you can imagine what my stroke looked like when I was trying to 'loop' the ball (hint - it was VERY vertical, I am still trying to fix that). 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Unless you play anti spin, 8 year old rubber is a bad idea


You need to loop with good technique to wear out rubbers. Worth remembering.

That said Calibra rubbers have always been more mechanical spin than topsheet grip.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 9:20pm
I honestly wonder if short pips might be an easier transition from 8 year old rubbers than pretty much any brand new, reasonably spinny inverted.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2017 at 12:23am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Butterfly sells 4 times as many blades as Stiga a year.

What do you think?


Is this true? Where are you getting your statistics on this?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2017 at 2:45am
Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Butterfly sells 4 times as many blades as Stiga a year.

What do you think?


Is this true? Where are you getting your statistics on this?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2017 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Butterfly sells 4 times as many blades as Stiga a year.

What do you think?


Is this true? Where are you getting your statistics on this?



(that's a funny meme LOL)

While domestically I would have to agree (here in the U.S.), I always thought that Stiga (wisely) put  their eggs in the basket of selling to the Chinese market, where there are probably more players than the rest of the globe combined.  If they can outsell competition in China, they should top the sales list world-wide.  (I don't have statistics on this for the record, I'm merely guessing).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 7:19am
This is my private list.
Everyone can have a different opinion then let him do it;)
I test a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8o7aRCyyqGJ_B-OLROrRt2AEiNXMcWcp
I did not record everything.
The recordings are created from my private budget. Ouch

The discussion is good. Wink
However, some need some distance to each other. Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Tajny1989 Tajny1989 wrote:

This is my private list.
Everyone can have a different opinion then let him do it;)
I test a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8o7aRCyyqGJ_B-OLROrRt2AEiNXMcWcp
I did not record everything.
The recordings are created from my private budget. Ouch

The discussion is good. Wink
However, some need some distance to each other. Confused

It takes courage to throw up a video like this. And I agree, it led to some fun (and frustrating) discussion. One thing I realized after watching and doing a short search is how few arylate carbon blades are made by different companies-except for Butterfly. Everybody has lots of carbon blades, but relatively few arylate carbon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2017 at 8:26am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by Tajny1989 Tajny1989 wrote:

This is my private list.
Everyone can have a different opinion then let him do it;)
I test a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8o7aRCyyqGJ_B-OLROrRt2AEiNXMcWcp
I did not record everything.
The recordings are created from my private budget. Ouch

The discussion is good. Wink
However, some need some distance to each other. Confused

It takes courage to throw up a video like this. And I agree, it led to some fun (and frustrating) discussion. One thing I realized after watching and doing a short search is how few arylate carbon blades are made by different companies-except for Butterfly. Everybody has lots of carbon blades, but relatively few arylate carbon.

Kinda true but Nah.  Aramid Carbon is pretty much the same as Arylate Carbon and there are many Aramid Carbon blade from many brands and also some Kevlar Carbon - they just didn't make the list because the video maker is either not testing them or unfamiliar with them.  True Carbon could easily have made the list as could have the blade I am currently using but they won't until tested.  Same with the Nexy Arirang or the Nexy Oscar depending on your preferences etc.  That the DHS 301 which has barely been around for a second made the list and got a high spot tells you something.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 8:21am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

It takes courage to throw up a video like this. And I agree, it led to some fun (and frustrating) discussion. One thing I realized after watching and doing a short search is how few arylate carbon blades are made by different companies-except for Butterfly. Everybody has lots of carbon blades, but relatively few arylate carbon.


Courage? Hardly. It's just one of millions of marketing/advertising videos on the Tube. It can be easily totally ignored just like almost all of the top 10 videos that litter YT. The thing is, finding reliable information is almost impossible since the marketing stuff inundates the media. I actually never found a good source for audio equipment information but luckily found a good Onkyo at Best Buy (brick and mortar)- only after having to returning a fake one that I purchased on Amazon (I was able to return it). So much scamming online nowadays. The hazards of the new way of shopping.

Edited by richrf - 12/14/2017 at 8:34am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 9:48am
You really can't call something a "marketing/advertising" video if it is made by an independent person who is not getting paid for it, who doesn't work for a blade company, and who is simply saying what blades he likes,  and who lists blades from a wide range of price points and different manufacturers.  Especially when you have created a large number of EJish threads yourself. 

Obviously it is the opinion of the guy who made it who may or may not have tried a bunch of other blades in the same general class.  I find some things on the list a bit odd myself, but that would be my opinion.  I don't work for a blade company either.

Finding reliable information is difficult because table tennis is complicated and what works for player A won't work for player B; and although some people hate to admit it, part of it stems from differences in the levels of the players as well as styles of play.

One last thing.  Buying a blade with high hopes and then not liking it is not the end of the world.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


One last thing.  Buying a blade with high hopes and then not liking it is not the end of the world.

I would never have known it... LOL
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 1:21pm
I know many other blades.
Aramid and Kevlar are not the same as Arylate. There are delicate differences - read.
The list was to include only arylatecarbon.
I made all these blades and checked how they bounce.
I made the order according to my feelings.
The problem for some is that they never had 10 arylatecarbon blades.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

It takes courage to throw up a video like this. And I agree, it led to some fun (and frustrating) discussion. One thing I realized after watching and doing a short search is how few arylate carbon blades are made by different companies-except for Butterfly. Everybody has lots of carbon blades, but relatively few arylate carbon.


Courage? Hardly. It's just one of millions of marketing/advertising videos on the Tube. It can be easily totally ignored just like almost all of the top 10 videos that litter YT. The thing is, finding reliable information is almost impossible since the marketing stuff inundates the media. I actually never found a good source for audio equipment information but luckily found a good Onkyo at Best Buy (brick and mortar)- only after having to returning a fake one that I purchased on Amazon (I was able to return it). So much scamming online nowadays. The hazards of the new way of shopping.

I personally test the equipment.
I do it from my own budget. These are my feelings. Respect my work and time, though.
You can be negative. But I always talk about the pros and cons. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 2:28pm
Keep up with the good work. It's fun watching it with the broken subtitle.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Tajny1989 Tajny1989 wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

It takes courage to throw up a video like this. And I agree, it led to some fun (and frustrating) discussion. One thing I realized after watching and doing a short search is how few arylate carbon blades are made by different companies-except for Butterfly. Everybody has lots of carbon blades, but relatively few arylate carbon.


Courage? Hardly. It's just one of millions of marketing/advertising videos on the Tube. It can be easily totally ignored just like almost all of the top 10 videos that litter YT. The thing is, finding reliable information is almost impossible since the marketing stuff inundates the media. I actually never found a good source for audio equipment information but luckily found a good Onkyo at Best Buy (brick and mortar)- only after having to returning a fake one that I purchased on Amazon (I was able to return it). So much scamming online nowadays. The hazards of the new way of shopping.

I personally test the equipment.
I do it from my own budget. These are my feelings. Respect my work and time, though.
You can be negative. But I always talk about the pros and cons. 


 
Actually if you had mentioned that this video was your work based on your experience, it would have been received differently, its nothing against you, but there is a tonne of stuff that people post here, like ERT videos etc...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by Tajny1989 Tajny1989 wrote:



I personally test the equipment.
I do it from my own budget. These are my feelings. Respect my work and time, though.
You can be negative. But I always talk about the pros and cons. 



I watched a good bit of your review of Brittany fast arc. One constructive criticism: you need someone who plays table tennis to translate for you. While I could follow some of what you said, much was obscured by the language. It is obvious you care about your reviews. This video was better than the first one you posted in my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

You really can't call something a "marketing/advertising" video if it is made by an independent person who is not getting paid for it, who doesn't work for a blade company, and who is simply saying what blades he likes,  and who lists blades from a wide range of price points and different manufacturers.  Especially when you have created a large number of EJish threads yourself. 

Obviously it is the opinion of the guy who made it who may or may not have tried a bunch of other blades in the same general class.  I find some things on the list a bit odd myself, but that would be my opinion.  I don't work for a blade company either.

Finding reliable information is difficult because table tennis is complicated and what works for player A won't work for player B; and although some people hate to admit it, part of it stems from differences in the levels of the players as well as styles of play.

One last thing.  Buying a blade with high hopes and then not liking it is not the end of the world.



I have no idea who this person is or the motivation but any Yat "Top 10" list is going to be suspect as far as I'm concerned.

As for expectations, I didn't expect much (even with all of the rave "Viscaria" reviews) but I was surprised at how totally crappy it it. Real, unadulterated junk. But ... If someone wishes to follow the advice of the reviews and wishes to purchase this blade, mine is still available in the For Sale forum for cheap.

I'm not surprised at the rah-rah attitude for junk equipment. It was exactly, precisely the same when I was searching for audio. The only place I found any audio equipment of any worth was in brick-and-mortar stores. They can't sell junk because the customer actually gets to try out the equipment before purchasing. No brick-and-mortar retailer is going to carry junk in inventory because of the cost. Unfortunately, no such outlet for table tennis equipment.

And I really, really, really dislike the condescending attitude I'm being shown. Grow up everyone. This is the real world of online shopping. 70% or more of the stuff I buy off Amazon, I return, especially electronics. And guess what? They all receive "rave reviews".

Edited by richrf - 12/14/2017 at 4:03pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2017 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

You really can't call something a "marketing/advertising" video if it is made by an independent person who is not getting paid for it, who doesn't work for a blade company, and who is simply saying what blades he likes,  and who lists blades from a wide range of price points and different manufacturers.  Especially when you have created a large number of EJish threads yourself. 

Obviously it is the opinion of the guy who made it who may or may not have tried a bunch of other blades in the same general class.  I find some things on the list a bit odd myself, but that would be my opinion.  I don't work for a blade company either.

Finding reliable information is difficult because table tennis is complicated and what works for player A won't work for player B; and although some people hate to admit it, part of it stems from differences in the levels of the players as well as styles of play.

One last thing.  Buying a blade with high hopes and then not liking it is not the end of the world.



I have no idea who this person is or the motivation but any Yat "Top 10" list is going to be suspect as far as I'm concerned.

As for expectations, I didn't expect much (even with all of the rave "Viscaria" reviews) but I was surprised at how totally crappy it it. Real, unadulterated junk. But ... If someone wishes to follow the advice of the reviews and wishes to purchase this blade, mine is still available in the For Sale forum for cheap.

I'm not surprised at the rah-rah attitude for junk equipment. It was exactly, precisely the same when I was searching for audio. The only place I found any audio equipment of any worth was in brick-and-mortar stores. They can't sell junk because the customer actually gets to try out the equipment before purchasing. No brick-and-mortar retailer is going to carry junk in inventory because of the cost. Unfortunately, no such outlet for table tennis equipment.

And I really, really, really dislike the condescending attitude I'm being shown. Grow up everyone. This is the real world of online shopping. 70% or more of the stuff I buy off Amazon, I return, especially electronics. And guess what? They all receive "rave reviews".

Have you ever considered that maybe it's just you? I think that is what everyone is subtly, or, not so subtly, trying to get at. 
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