Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Plant Based / Vegan Diet
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Plant Based / Vegan Diet

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2018 at 2:02pm
A lot of diets work, but health wise some are horrible.
Back to Top
Joo Se Kev View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/06/2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2018 at 2:07pm

Wow guys! I’ve read this whole thread and I must say I’m impressed with the discussion so far. This can be a very controversial topic and all to often I see threads like this go down in flames.

It must be the naturally high intelligence, good nature, and sound judgment of table tennis players making the difference here Wink

I’d like to weigh in briefly, if you don’t mind.

I’ll be leaving any ethical considerations out of my response. I’m only going to be speaking about the potential benefits and drawbacks to veganism as it relates to health and performance.

Let’s also be wary of personal anecdotes; for while an anecdote may feel useful and relevant for the person giving it, I’m sure we could find just as many people with positive anecdotes following a totally different approach (there’s even people who swear by drinking paint thinner for health, for example).

I’ll stick to what the research says and try to present the evidence as objectively as I can.

1. General health/mortality: 

If you compare a vegan diet to the average diet of the general population, there is a clear advantage in favor of the vegan diet. Both in overall health and life expectancy.

This shouldn’t be a surprise though because those who practice veganism or vegetarianism also tend to be more health-conscious in general: they’re usually wealthier, exercise more, smoke/drink less, and eat more fruits/veggies than the average person.

These things are confounding variables that make it difficult to parse out what is causing the improved health outcomes. Is it the lack of meat/animal products or simply the extra fruits/veggies/exercise along with a reduction of highly processed and refined foods that are causing the improved health?

Maybe the meat/animal products are the proverbial “baby” being thrown out with the bathwater?

Indeed, when measures are taken to account for these factors, vegan/vegetarian diets don’t seem to be any better (or worse) for life expectancy than other diets followed by health-conscious individuals (1,2).

2. Performance:

While you might not gain any special performance benefits through a vegan diet, it’s probably not going to hurt your performance either--provided your diet is set up properly (3,4).

Your Omega 3s, vitamin B12, vitamin D, calcium, iodine, iron, and zinc levels are all things that can be tough to hit optimal ranges of without supplementation. 

Additionally, it may be wise to shoot for a slightly higher protein intake as the quality of vegan-based protein sources is lower on average (leucine, in particular, is noticeably low in most sources).

So, for a vegan athlete looking to optimize body composition, a pea + rice protein powder blend has a very favorable amino acid profile and is a good option if you need to supplement your protein intake.

The literature on soy is somewhat mixed and I would advise males to limit intake somewhat just as a precautionary measure.

The takeaway:

Overall, you can absolutely perform at an elite level athletically following a vegan diet, and there’s plenty of data showing it can be a perfectly healthy way to live (provided the diet is well constructed).

If you want to follow the diet for moral/ethical reasons, or you simply like how you feel on it, then go for it!

Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location*
Status: Offline
Points: 14900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2018 at 12:05am
Thanks for the kind words Joo Se Kev.

I am actually posting to tell Tony I think of him and his fellow as Cape Town are going through tough times:
Let's never take anything for granted; waste is evil and will always be.

Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

surprised to find this thread
anyways, I'm a vegetarian

one thing about plant based diet is environmental
I will just mention water, as right now Cape Town has a record drought.

1KG of steak needs 15000 litres of water
1KG of plant needs 300 litres of water
lots of info on google, here is just a random site I googled just to share the link:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 851
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2018 at 9:22am
"I do find it funny, though, that when people mention being vegetarian or vegan some people always seem to come out swinging like someone not eating animals is somehow harmful to the rest of us.  I doubt we'll see that on a page such as this, but on facebook I see it all the time.  "

I believe it's because the OP wrote the post in a tone in which there is no evidence of judgment towards those of us who are not vegan. It is simply a frank and judgement free discussion, and I for one welcome that approach!

FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 01/19/2018 at 9:22am
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location*
Status: Offline
Points: 14900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 3:58pm
I have read Joo Se Kev’s post above about 10 times now. His detached tone and impartial thinking are such a joy; I bet he is a scientist. Are you JSK?
Thanks FdT, fore sure I won’t use veganism as a tool to belittle other people, I despise my fellow vegan who do so, they are no better than the idiots who think their religion, sexual orientations or country are best. I believe in between many reasons we are successful as a species, we try many paths and eventually some get more popular than others, from individual choices.
Cheers!
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 4:39pm
I agree, but some of the things he mentioned are wrong. The list of nutrients that can be hard to hit is wrong.
Back to Top
Joo Se Kev View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/06/2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I have read Joo Se Kev’s post above about 10 times now. His detached tone and impartial thinking are such a joy; I bet he is a scientist. Are you JSK?
Thanks FdT, fore sure I won’t use veganism as a tool to belittle other people, I despise my fellow vegan who do so, they are no better than the idiots who think their religion, sexual orientations or country are best. I believe in between many reasons we are successful as a species, we try many paths and eventually some get more popular than others, from individual choices.
Cheers!

Thanks! I really appreciate that!

I'm a scientist in spirit only. Exercise science and nutrition are areas I study extensively both out of personal interest (obsession really) and so that I can be the best coach I can be for my clients Smile
Back to Top
Joo Se Kev View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/06/2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I agree, but some of the things he mentioned are wrong. The list of nutrients that can be hard to hit is wrong.

In what way, if you don't mind me asking? 
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 7:51pm
The only thing though to hit is b12. Vitamin D is easily obtained by going out( which everyone should do) and a bowl of oats already sets you up for at least a third of nutrients such as zink, iron and magnesium.
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

The only thing though to hit is b12. Vitamin D is easily obtained by going out( which everyone should do) and a bowl of oats already sets you up for at least a third of nutrients such as zink, iron and magnesium.


There have been studies, seniors are at risk for a Vitamin D deficiency.

Vitamin D
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 7:12am
This is not a scientific studie. You linked a blog. Also did you read it? It says right in the beginning that vitamin D is produced naturally when going outside. The blog just talks about the effects of a vitamin d deficiency and the benefits that seniors could have. This is somethings that bothers me quite a lot, when people cite sites that have nothing to do with scientific research. Try pubmed as your sources.
Back to Top
Joo Se Kev View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/06/2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 7:15am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

The only thing though to hit is b12. Vitamin D is easily obtained by going out( which everyone should do) and a bowl of oats already sets you up for at least a third of nutrients such as zink, iron and magnesium.

We can definitely agree on B12. This is especially important for vegans to be aware of as chronic deficiency can result in brain damage.

I disagree a bit regarding vitamin D...It's not so not so easy to get enough sun exposure in certain parts of the world (and during winter months). Rates of deficiency are pretty common, but this is not a unique problem to the vegan diet. 

I'd also like to point out the difference between simply having adequate levels and *optimal* levels. Most people (vegan or otherwise) do not have optimal levels without some measure of supplementation and/or intentional sun exposure.

Overall, I do think the risks of vegan diets as being a surefire path to deficiency are often overstated. 

If it's structured well, a vegan diet is absolutely able to meet your body's nutrient needs (B12 and DHA being notable exceptions). The problem is, most people struggle to maintain a well-thought out and structured diet. And when your pool of foods is artificially restricted, you may occasionally end up having to rely on a narrow list of foods to maintain your vegan status.

Fortunately, today there are a *ton* more vegan and vegetarian friendly options out there so this is becoming less of a problem Smile

As for the other vitamins mentioned, my source is from a research review I follow (and highly recommend), The Alan Aragon Research Review. The above-mentioned vitamins are some of the most commonly cited, population-wide nutritional shortcomings of vegan diets. For those who are interested, here are some of the sources:







Edit: Fixing the broken links.




Edited by Joo Se Kev - 01/21/2018 at 7:21am
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 7:50am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

This is not a scientific studie. You linked a blog. Also did you read it? It says right in the beginning that vitamin D is produced naturally when going outside. The blog just talks about the effects of a vitamin d deficiency and the benefits that seniors could have. This is somethings that bothers me quite a lot, when people cite sites that have nothing to do with scientific research. Try pubmed as your sources.


That was just talking about the deficiency.

In this article here is a quote "According to an article published in “Mayo Clinic Proceedings” in August 2010, vitamin D deficiency is much more prevalent than it has been in the past." by Livingstrong.com

Vitamin D

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 01/21/2018 at 8:11am
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 8:20am
That still doesn't prove that getting vitamin d on a vegan diet is hard. What it actually says is that a lot of people have a vitamin d deficiency and looking at the number of meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans, the majority of people are meat eaters. It's the same thing as calcium. When people think of milk they think of calcium. But what about Denmark for example? They consume huge amounts of milk and still have almost the highest rate of osteoporosis. And then the milk industry advertises milk as good for bones. Critical thinking and ACTUAL scientific evidence are key in our modern society.
Back to Top
MCollins View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/28/2016
Location: Canada (NL)
Status: Offline
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 4:04pm
Correlations.  Fertility and telephone poles.  There's enough research that milk is good for bones (and weight loss), but it's not the whole story.  For example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28736622
My Feedback
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75703&title=feedback-mcollins
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 4:13pm
There's also enough research that animal products cause heart disease and still we eat tons of them everyday.

Edited by Tt Gold - 01/21/2018 at 4:13pm
Back to Top
MCollins View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/28/2016
Location: Canada (NL)
Status: Offline
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 4:45pm
Again, correlational.  As Joo Se Kev explained, there's many confounders to consider... life choices often accompanying certain diets.  Further, fish, or more specifically their oils, will actually reduce heart disease (and pretty much everything else wrong with you).  There's also some cool new research being done with cultures that eat a lot of wild game instead of farm-raised animals, and the differences are staggering.  


My Feedback
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75703&title=feedback-mcollins
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

There's also enough research that animal products cause heart disease and still we eat tons of them everyday.


The problem is their consumption of a balanced diet with fiber, vegetables and fruits. When a person reaches 50 or so when they are less active they do need to cut down on their overall consumption which includes meat.

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 01/21/2018 at 4:52pm
Back to Top
MCollins View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/28/2016
Location: Canada (NL)
Status: Offline
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 5:17pm
To be fair, Tt Gold has a valid point in that many animal products do directly cause health problems.  The amount of nitrates/ites in some preserved meats shouldn't even be legal, and the sat fat in many meat products causes cholesterol build up and a host of other problems.  But not all meats are created equal, which I guess is my point.  
My Feedback
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75703&title=feedback-mcollins
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by MCollins MCollins wrote:

To be fair, Tt Gold has a valid point in that many animal products do directly cause health problems.  The amount of nitrates/ites in some preserved meats shouldn't even be legal, and the sat fat in many meat products causes cholesterol build up and a host of other problems.  But not all meats are created equal, which I guess is my point.  


The Eskimos eat a high fat diet but don't have a problem.

The French eat more pork, which is high in fat, than anyone but they don't have a problem.
Back to Top
MCollins View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/28/2016
Location: Canada (NL)
Status: Offline
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 5:38pm
Not all fats are the same.  Fish fat, for example, is quite heart-healthy.  Pig fat, not so much.  And there's quite a difference in wild game and farm-raised animals, or at least that's what early research is suggesting.  As for the French, can you think of any other differences in lifestyle that could cause different health outcomes?  This is the problem with correlational data... it just doesn't get to the heart of the issue like basic research does.  When it comes to sat fat, from insulin resistance to beta-cell dysfunction to cholesterol buildup to a host of other issues, the data is clear.  

I hope I'm not coming across as a royal arsehole here.  I think there's valid points on both sides.  It's just that I think these conversations tend to be too broad and generalized.  All meats are not created equal, so when talking about health problems/benefits of eating meat we need to specify which meat.  Vegan diets are certainly more healthy than the typical North American diet, but that same diet with some healthy fish and maybe a bit of moose could be even more healthy.  
My Feedback
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75703&title=feedback-mcollins
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by MCollins MCollins wrote:

Not all fats are the same.  Fish fat, for example, is quite heart-healthy.  Pig fat, not so much.  And there's quite a difference in wild game and farm-raised animals, or at least that's what early research is suggesting.  As for the French, can you think of any other differences in lifestyle that could cause different health outcomes?  This is the problem with correlational data... it just doesn't get to the heart of the issue like basic research does.  When it comes to sat fat, from insulin resistance to beta-cell dysfunction to cholesterol buildup to a host of other issues, the data is clear.  


I hope I'm not coming across as a royal arsehole here.  I think there's valid points on both sides.  It's just that I think these conversations tend to be too broad and generalized.  All meats are not created equal, so when talking about health problems/benefits of eating meat we need to specify which meat.  Vegan diets are certainly more healthy than the typical North American diet, but that same diet with some healthy fish and maybe a bit of moose could be even more healthy.  


Good discussion, my point there also appears to be diet antidotes to the bad fat and cholesterol consumption.

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 01/21/2018 at 6:05pm
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 12886
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 7:40pm
Having spent a lot of time there, I have noticed that French people simply eat less on average than people in the US, even if items high in animal fats are consumed often. At the end of the day, that matters more than anything.

There are a few other things French people traditionally do (for example eating a larger meal in the aftsrnoon and not so much in the evening) but moderating total caloric intake over time is a big factor. I personally believe that a somewhat higher fat content makes that highly sustainable because what they do eat is really really good! 👍

I remember that tbe best vegetarian meal I have ever had was at a tiny restaurant in Aix-en-Provence. It wasn't strictly vegan I suspect.
Back to Top
pro946 View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 01/30/2018
Location: NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pro946 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2018 at 12:10pm
ClapClapClap Veganism is really a healthy alternative and many millennials and entrepreneurs turn vegan just because of animal cruelty, also because of the health advantages that show in the long term. I'm trying a vegan diet and happy to be part of a facebook group with over +30k members that provide help when I need it. Raise vegan is the largest vegan community and it's best to have a supportive community to rely on especially when you're starting a vegan lifestyle. You can join the group if you want and meet the lovely people there. https://www.facebook.com/groups/veganpregnancyandparenting/
or go to https://raisevegan.com and read about pregnancy, parenting recipes, nutrition through a vegetarian approach. 

Stay active, stay healthy, stay vegan!
Back to Top
MCollins View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/28/2016
Location: Canada (NL)
Status: Offline
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2018 at 2:27pm
My only issue with the raisevegan group is their advocating for veganism in children.  Vegetarian diets seem to meet nutritional needs adequately if you know what you're doing, but take away the dairy and things get iffy... zinc sups and special foods to up the iron, B12, and vit D almost being a necessity for older infants.  I'm not saying it can't be done.  It certainly can.  But to recommend such an undertaking en masse seems irresponsible to me.  On the other hand, like many North Americans, I was raised on hot dogs and hamburgers and the data is pretty clear that that's worse.  
My Feedback
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75703&title=feedback-mcollins
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location*
Status: Offline
Points: 14900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2018 at 3:31pm
I started with insomnia and a facebook ad about challenge22. I was already reading about it and sure enough they got me. It's a fb private group and a website. You register on the website, you get added to the next Challenge22 22 days challenge private group (one a month) and for a few days you are getting coached to get ready about knowing where the good stuff is, knowing the stores around your places, what to look for, what to be aware of etc...You hang in there and after your 22 days challenge is over you move onto the Challenge22 graduate also private group where people constantly post good stuff. Of course like anywhere there are whiners, leaders and everything in between, including plant rights activists, my favorite among the nuts, right after the pecans Tongue. Sorting the good stuff out from the mountains of @#$% is the same job than reading this forum LOL.
My 11 yo daughter was already a veggie and was leading the house re. eating the least possible amount of animal products and I was the worst with all kind of sausages, cheeses, steaks and what not. She wanted to join me and I opposed due to the danger of me doing something wrong threatening her development. I was happy that after 2 days it was too hard at school and at her play dates' houses to manage veganism so for her it's no meat, no fish at all, just eggs, milk, cheese and a lot of beans, tofu etc...like before. To get kids on veganism require the oversight of highly skilled professionals; I can't imagine a situation where I would face having harmed my kid for not knowing what I am doing.


Edited by fatt - 01/30/2018 at 3:33pm
Back to Top
BRS View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/08/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 783
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2018 at 3:42pm
For people who have the money and the inclination, there are dairy and egg sources that are both healthier and far less cruel. Particularly with eggs, anyone who takes a chance on raising chickens themselves will soon discover that what you buy in the store as an "egg" tastes about as much like a proper farm egg as the tomato slice on a fast food burger does to a big fresh tomato you just pulled out of your own garden.

They might as well be two completely different foods.

That is a nice thing to do with kids. Roughly as much effort as a dog, but less costly, and something good comes out the other end of it, which you definitely do not get from a dog.

Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location*
Status: Offline
Points: 14900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2018 at 3:54pm
That's the problem I have with the vegan thing: I stay vegan 100% because I am the kind of guy who would go back all the way to being omnivore if I put my finger in it, very much like an alcoholic who can't have one little drink or in no time they'd be on their knees on their way back home. However I have 4 chicken and they have names; they let me grab them and pet them; they follow me everywhere in the garden; they get up on the deck and watch through the window when they have the urge to roost (the hen house is outside and they can't go back by themselves). They hang out in the garden all day long and go back to their home at night. Eating their eggs would be nice in my opinion and my wife & 2 kids do. It's a perfect symbiosis between us and them. We feed them and offer them shelter and care and we get eggs.
Vegan people say: yes but if you do not take their eggs they will lay 100 a year; when you take their eggs they will lay 300 a year, stressing their body big time. EUH... OK! that's where I have trouble to fully embrace the vegan spirit even though I am still 100% plant based (at least I am not malicious when I am not).


Edited by fatt - 01/31/2018 at 12:36am
Back to Top
mischasln View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2016
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mischasln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2018 at 12:50pm
I've been vegan for a few years.
YouTube     
人生卓球
---
RSM Athena Platinum Special | RSM G-MAX | Cypress G-MAX
Omega V Europe | Powercell Ultra 48 | Tenergy 05
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2018 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by mischasln mischasln wrote:

I've been vegan for a few years.


What are some of your favorite tasting dishes ? I always like to try new meal plans.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer