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T05 vs MXP |
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taczkid
Super Member Joined: 05/19/2016 Location: ILLINOIS Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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I think overall T05 is the best forehand rubber (all pros use it except Chinese). As far as backhand I find T05 to also work really well especially with new balls, might require slightly more time to get used to it on backhand but its worth to wait.
In my opinions T05 despite more expensive it will last you much longer if you take care of it (clean etc) and put edge tape to save edges.. It also will not shrink like MXP which comes factory boosted, where as T05 is not. After all MXP was made to be similar to T05, but I do not think it is... I like T05 way better, spin, speed and arc angle wise. There is a reason why everyone compares rubbers to T05 and why most of the players (not only Pros) use T05. It simply is better in every aspect of the game. If you never played tenergy you need to stick with it for few months (3+ ) to start using and realize it full potential! Not to say that MXP is bed rubber, it is probably #2 forehand rubber choice by (Non-Chinese) players. Both rubbers will work great on the blade you mentioned, I would personally go with T05. |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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I'm using Aurus Prime 2.1 Red on FH
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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And how is Aurus Prime in comparison with MX-P? I've tried AP only once - and it was an older test sheet (hence the question).
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Disclosure - I'm not particularly skilled at reviewing equipment with lots of detail, plus I don't have fresh recollections of MX-P, because last time I played with it was ~2 years ago. I've been playing with Aurus Prime 2.1 Red for the past 4 months, or so. Aurus Prime has different feeling due to very thin and not as grippy topsheet as MX-P, which I like, because I don't brush a lot, and generate spin and pace mostly with sponge. AP in 2.1 is fast (not as fast as MX-P, IMO) and it gives me more than enough oomph when I need it. It is also very linear, which I like, because it makes it very controllable in the short game ... plus, I'm a fan of linear rubbers in general - I play with Nexy Karis M on BH. Too me, AP has medium-firm feel, and it feels softer than MX-P, and softer than its sponge hardness would indicate - probably because of the thin topsheet. Also, I didn't notice any significant difference in AP's performance over time, which would indicate to me that it isn't factory boosted, but I might be wrong on that. |
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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Best for pros is not the rule in and of itself for 99.999 % of players. In badminton string tension of pros is too high for anyone not super good, Rogers old racquet is no longer ideal even for him. T05 is a great rubber because it suits a lot of peoples various games and its a great rubber... That has an aura and benefits from being the indisputable best rubber for a long time. Pros won't want to change from what they've been training with daily for a dubious benefit especially seeing as before sending nothing else compared. Non pros will gladly pay for the great rubber as they see value in that the best use it and its had a monopoly as the best for a while. Even if mxp was 1% better for 40% of temerity users do you think they would change? |
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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Thanks both
Perhaps that is the reason I always end up coming back to MX-P, I loop using only the topsheet and only engage the sponge when smashing. MX-P is amazing in that regard, I can brush power loop from 4-5 metres off the table without even feeling the sponge and get a ridiculously high arcing spinny and super fast loop on the table. I always notice when I try and do it with other rubbers, including T05, that i need to engage the sponge in order to get the spin, arc and speed. I find it difficult to adjust to that as with MX-P if you engage the sponge too much I find you end up with a severe loss of control, so my tendency is too always hit the ball tangentially. Does anyone know of any other rubbers which allow you to use topsheet only and powerloop from 3-5 metres back off the table? I chop from distance on BH against strong loopers using OX LP on a Koto/ZLC blade, which is why I am often that far off the table and wait for my chance to counter on the forehand. I have to say, blocking and fishing on forehand from distance works for me much better with MX-P than anything else too because the speed it goes back makes some of the blocks semi-offensive. The other shot I can play much better with MX-P than other rubbers is counter smashing a slow spinny loop right off the bounce. When you learn the correct timing for this shot it is incredible and consistant and I have beaten some very good loopers by standing close to the table and smacking every loop off the bounce. Obviously if they loop deeper on the table then it can't be done, but anything mid table gets the treatment My vicious forehand is the reason good players very quickly learn to pin me on my backhand OX LP and wait to hit one cross court wide enough that I can't fish it back. I am yet to find an answer for this so am somewhat hampered from making the next leg up in grading. Twiddling is one way, but for me I think it will have to be better footwork and perfecting my inside-out forehand on the backhand side (Liu Song stylee). Another anecdote I just thought of, I am one of the only players that can beat our league Anti-spin blocker. This guy has beaten guys in the top 200 mens seniors in the UK by standing still and blocking every loop off the bounce with his super dampening blade and half attached anti. I can push 5-10 times and wait for the right ball that drifts long to my forehand and give it the thinnest brush treatment with a small but very fast jerk of the arm and 8/10 times he will block it long due to the spin. I have tried this shot with T05 and it doesn't work, you need the sponge to engage to up the spin level and that would mean being further off the table to keep the ball on the table, which gives him more time to reposition his block. I really like that Yogi mentions in his reviews whether a rubber spins via topsheet or sponge, or a combination of both. I think this is a really important characteristic of a rubber if you want it to match your current stroke which has taken hours to groove, and will take many more hours to undo (like LP players going to Anti to get more reversal without realising the bat angles for blocking are completely inverted and muscle memory can be a ).
Edited by MydasDiablo - 01/19/2018 at 4:25pm |
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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As a fellow MX-P user, this is something i love about the rubber. The duality of the forehand as well as the other point re: slow spinny loops.
Most people don't attack slow spinny loops, they go and hit it up a bit and back away from the table. It's there to be hit, and if your eye is in and you are timing it well, this shot has a decent success rate. I see the pro's doing it a lot as well, so its even cooler to be able to play the shot. Most people don't expect that type of return, so when you land it, not only is it really hard to return anyways due to the flatness/speed/direction you get on it but its also just not one of the responses the were expecting. |
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Aurus prime is a rubber which I feel I can replace mx-p wth (yes, I was looking for an mx-p alternative and not a t05 alternative 😂). Been using it since almost 3 months now, unlike every other latest gen rubber, it can generate decent spin using the topsheet and get some good power and kick on the ball from far off the table (when I use the top+sponge). And the best thing abt these rubbers is that you get a good kick on your topspin since it makes yu engage the sponge. Also, another plus point is that these new gen stuff work incredibly well with the new abs balls, zero slippage or grip issues. Even though the topsheet starts looking super worn after around 2 weeks (that's quick, almost like a 2 month old tenergy), it still performs almost the same. Blocking is really easy and controllable. A friend boosted his aurus prime with 2 layers of falco mainly to get the sponge a softer and it feels amazing even after 3 months( boost wore off early but the softness remained) ,perfect balance between mx-p and t05 for me. Just give it time and use it on a not too stiff blade, typical bty alc blades or flexier. |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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@nv42- Very accurate description of Aurus Prime - I actually get sufficient power and kick far off the table from from 2.1 sponge, so I can imagine how one can get more than enough power from Max sponge. I'd also like to add that Aurus Prime is very tame and predictable in short game, since it doesn't have much catapult until one makes strong contact with the ball.
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1527 |
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This thread has some excellent comments!!
If I had to choose between an unlimited supply of MX-P vs T05, I would choose MX-P. For my game, MX-P used to be the better rubber in the first 20 h of its lifetime. As has been mentioned before, the drop-off in performance is much sharper with MX-P, and T05 is the 'better' rubber after ~25 h, and T05 certainly maintains adequate (but not phenomenal) performance for much longer.
One way around this is to have two identical set-ups, one for use in tournaments and one for practice. I would typically feel comfortable using the same MX-P sheet for two tournaments (~15-20h) and then 'relegate' it for use in practice up to ~75h (~2 months), perhaps with a light refresher in between. Assuming 12 months of TT per year, this amounts to 6-7 sheets per year for one side (e.g., FH) at ~$32/sheet when bought in bulk, for a total cost of ~$200. Obviously, one can do something similar with T05, e.g., use a sheet for ~45h of tournament play, then relegate it to practice play for ~150h (~4 months). This amounts to ~3 sheets per year at $70/sheet, for a similar total cost of ~$210. For me, the bottom line is the difference is the quality of your material in the tournaments. In my world, I have better material for tournaments but perhaps not quite as good material in practices, especially towards the end of the 2 month MX-P rotation period. Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 01/23/2018 at 1:20am |
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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+1 Patrick. I would choose the mx-p if I get an unlimited supply of it too haha, just love the overall feel and topsheet grab as opposed to t05. I don't get to practice much these days so I really love how controllable aurus prime is in. Certain aspects like the short game (like victor mentioned) and also loop to loop and block. Bascially it really helps support a rallying game as supposed to mx-p. I guess the same can be said for the other new gen rubbers, though the prime remains my favourite for now because of the stiff topsheet.
Planning to lightly boost it with falco so that the sponge becomes a bit softer, loved my colleagues boosted aurus prime even after months. Kinda OT, but I'm rying out the aurus select now, and I kinda get why certain ppl compared it to t05fx, pretty tight throw angle and amazing for a counter game. |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Those who are using Aurus Prime can you please confirm how durable is AP? How long
till the booster wears off and the rubber starts playing differently?
And does it shrink on re-glueing like MX-P?
And for those who use MX-P, can you please confirm if changing from max thickness down to 2.0 thickness provides better control in rallies and counters or not? Thanks |
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Aurus Prime has a much different feeling (soaks more) than MXP, and it jsd similar/less speed and is more durable, esp the topsheet imo.
Good stuff
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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The topsheet starts looking super worn really early but maintains perfect grip even after a a good 3 months. It definitely shrinks, a bit lesser than mx-p, but every new gen rubber including the aurus prime /select, rasansters, hype kr and bluestorm definitely do shrink. Dint really notice any huge degradation in speed or spin, on the other hand I found that the rubber plays/feels better the longer ive used it.
Aurus prime is pretty bouncy, maybe a bit more than mx-p at certain strokes, so if you find max mx-p tough to use, don't get max aurus prime either. Edited by nv42 - 01/23/2018 at 9:42pm |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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For me, the choice is blade-dependent. If it is a Viscaria type ALC blade, then I'd chose T05. If it is a blade with limba outers, I'd go for MX-P. If it a slow, spinny, all-wood blade, I'd choose MX-P. If it is a low-throw, extra-stiff blade, I'd go for T05 (or better, just ditch the blade). If it is high-throw, stiff & spinny blade with limba outers (MJ-SZLC), both work fine with T05 more forgiving and MX-P more aggressive.
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ThePongProfessor
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Almost without exception, I use all-wood blades with limba outers :)
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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I am interested to know what those in the know think about how MX-S fits in to this conversation... We covered Aurus Prime in comparison to MX-P and T05 so I don't think it derails the thread too much. There appear to be a lot of satisfied users of MX-S, as well as a lot of people that just don't get on with it. I only tried it once on a Nittaku S-CZ blade and it played terrible. I think it needs a hard outer ply and carbon to play the way I would want it to, the spruce on the S-CZ did not seem to marry well at all. I have a sneaky feeling MX-S has the potential to be the best of the bunch, but with it being very blade dependant, (a lot more so than MX-P and T05) and requiring a specific stroke style by the user (brush hard to make your own arc).
I am gonna give MX-S another go, this time on my DD Terminator. I hope the Koto/ZLC FH side will allow me to get into the rock hard sponge a bit more than with spruce and the ZLC provide the extra kick. Patrick's review of MX-S which was summarised with "A superb rubber for the spin-, block- and flat hit minded player" got me thinking, on the FH I either block, brush loop with heavy spin off a push, or smack anything mid table above net height, everything else is covered with my OX LP on the BH, so this rubber should be perfect for my game! Furthermore, the harder and more inert the sponge of the FH rubber, the better behaved the OX LP plays on the other side, having T05 on my FH makes my OX LP 10-20% faster which is not helpful and is one of the reasons I use MX-P. If anyone knows the physics behind this i.e. why having the Spring Sponge on the FH makes my BH OX LP springier too, I would love to know.
Edited by MydasDiablo - 01/24/2018 at 2:57pm |
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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MX-S too low throw for me but worked wonders on my backhand, apart from opening loops. Can block, counter and punch anything. It's just not as good for skilled players as it is very weak for opening loops and open rallies, too much of a tradeoff for better counters and blocks (short game gains insignificant)
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Online Points: 14822 |
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MX-S is for brush looping and the throw is extremely high if you loop with arc. It tends to flatten out if your stroke is not spin focused. That's where the confusion about its throw comes from.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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NL, what is the weight of MX-S in 1.9, looking for an avg
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NextLevel
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About the same as a sheet of Tenergy 05 max, could be less. In fact, I have been testing out Omega 7 pro recently and I don't think I gain that much weight reduction switching from MX-S 1.9mm to Omega 7 Pro (then again, the sheets are not the same age so something else could be at play).
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Interestingly, I didn't observe any noticeable shrinkage with Aurus Prime. I didn't see it with my first sheet, but since I didn't really proactively look for shrinkage I decided to look at my current sheet, which I've been using for about 7 weeks. I took it off the blade about an hour ago and it still fits the blade perfectly - no noticeable shrinkage. Since I haven't noticed shrinkage, or any meaningful changes in the performance of the sponge over the life of the rubber, I suspect that Aurus Prime might not be pre-boosted by Tibhar, but this is just my conjecture. |
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Even t05 isn't boosted according to many, but for some reason it still does shrink, the same with aurus prime. I noticed it with a sheet of hype kr too. The shrinkage is quite minimal, nothinh like the mx-p, bluefire m generation rubbers.
Mx-s definitely is blade dependent, love how it plays on my buddy's tb alc, its a pretty high throw alc (highest one iv tried). Found it alright on a lowish throw vega pro. And found it really weird on a ebenholz, just dint like the feel. Also felt pretty darn good on a stratus power wood (dint get to try this for long, but felt pretty darn good). It definitely is meant for brush looping like next level mentioned. Also, mx-s shrinks a decent amount too if that helps. Anyway, wonder how come very few have tried the gewo hype xt 50. It's got a softer topsheet compared to mx-p and mx-s, really supports consistent looping from a few steps off the table (not really blade dependent but feels good on mid-flexy (tbalc etc) koto and hinoki outers, felt kinda outta place on the vega pro, so not sure how it'l be on a limba ply but I reckon it should work well since it's a pretty easy to use rubber. |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Online Points: 14822 |
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As a heavy MX-S user, who has probably bought more sheets of MX-S than any other rubber I can remember, I have never experienced the shrinkage. I suspect you are a rubber cement user, but I could be wrong.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Nope, I use regualr water based glue, gewo/revo /tibhar etc. And I did have an mx-s and an el-s shrink, but only after like around 4 months of usage. And the shrinkage was pretty minimal, 1-2mm at the most, I can confirm that it shrunk cuz I did reglue the rubbers once after the 1 month period and it had no shrinkage (hence it dint shrink cuz I stretched out the rubber while gluing).
Recently reglue a friend's mx-s after he used it for 3-4 months and even that had around 2mm shrinkage from all sides. Thats pretty minimal compared to what happens with an mx-p. However, old gen rubbers like aurus, rakza, vega pro etc don't shrink a bit. Edited by nv42 - 01/26/2018 at 2:41pm |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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HarmonicTT
Super Member Joined: 09/04/2017 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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If you put too much force or pressure when you put it on it'll expand and stretch hence causing the skrinkage as you claim
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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I know, exactly why I mentioned that I had removed the rubbers after 1 month and it had no signs of shrinkage then, if I had stretched out the rubber while gluing, it should've shrunk when I removed it then, but it shrunk a bit only the 2nd time I removed it around 2-3 months later. Again, I'm talking abt pretty minimal shrinkage here. |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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Mickael
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2011 Location: World Status: Offline Points: 794 |
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My thoughts mx-p is the best offensive rubber when new, especially after reading this thread!
Is there any other rubber with the exact same characteristics without a booster in it? |
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Nittaku Acoustic Carbon FL
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 FH Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 BH |
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slevin
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MX-P was the best (for me) for many years. Not any more. Bluestorm Z1 has supplanted it. |
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Mickael
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I am willing to try it. Does it hold the ball on slow strokes (opening loops forehand, backhand and serves) and shoot like bullits on faster strokes (loop kills from anyhere on the table court ) like mx-p? |
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Nittaku Acoustic Carbon FL
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 FH Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 BH |
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