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Dimitrij Ovtcharov - The Road to the TOP |
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GECA
Super Member Joined: 02/11/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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Posted: 01/06/2018 at 12:17pm |
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Edited by GECA - 01/06/2018 at 12:17pm |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1223 |
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According to the available records, Dima and Ma Long have met 17 times.
Ma Long has defeated Dima EVERY SINGLE TIME! FdT. Edited by Fulanodetal - 01/06/2018 at 8:05pm |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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Yes, the road that conveniently had a lot of detours around the Chinese players, though not intentional.
Edited by rocketman222 - 01/06/2018 at 2:54pm |
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Chicobo
Super Member Joined: 04/08/2015 Location: Fort Worth Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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To expand on what rocketman222 said with some statistics. There were 3 tournaments that both Ma Long and Ovtcharov both participated in. Those were: 1) Qatar Open where Ma Long won 2) World Cup where Ovtcharov won (with TB's spectacular wins vs CNT) and 3) China Open where Ovtcharov won (we'll leave an asterisk next to that one but I would say CNT shot themselves in the foot here) I'm iffy on whether DO is greater than FZD, but given ML's meager participation in ITTF tournaments in 2017 and the above results, DO deserves a higher WR when looking at just the 2017 season.
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1223 |
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Ma Long graduated last year and became a dad. I think that might explain to some extent his absence for the second half of 2017. I just read he was complaining from some injuries, however I can't verify.
The new ITTF rules concerning ranking is a bit arbitrary although I don't disagree with it 100%. Olympic Gold Medal and other top achievements should be recognized. Yes Dima had a great year. Perhaps he should be #1 for 2017. But look at the record....even though they seem like friends, you gotta think Ma Long is a big thorn on Dimas side... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTmu0sSZgDc 2009 Yokohama https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cozAWC_DMQo 2009 Danish Open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkoocYnH1pc 2009 China Grand Finals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX158E4UikM 2010 German Open , Berlin, GER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7YLehvZBs 2012 Liebherr WTTTC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X7_hpeiTWA 2012 London Olympics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ0EJqR4h0k 2013 Qatar Open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK-IOwuuWB4 2013 China Open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwBXhuOTIX0 2014 ZEN NOH, Japan WTTC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfdmHMtaEFg 2014 China Super League https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5be9Ygp1gY 2015, Portugal ITTF Grand Finals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qXv5LCylSk 2015 Liehberr MWC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0rTCnO4-Lg 2015 Sweden MWC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogiPZwOipNY 2015 German Open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHqSsGFCJOY 2016 Qatar Open FdT
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pongfugrasshopper
Premier Member Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3659 |
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At this point ITTF no. 1 doesn't mean too much until we get active participation down the road.
Right now, ITTF no. 1 does not equate to best player in the world. Ma Long is widely considered to be either the best or 2nd best (behind fzd). I acknowledge that Dima had a great year, but everyone saw what FZD did to him at the grand finals. And if you look at the record: 0-17 vs Ma Long 1-3 vs FZD 1-6 vs Xu Xin this bears out that while he's Europe's best and a very very good player, he's not the best in the world. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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How many of those matches were in 2017? |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
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Timo hadn't beaten Ma Long since 2010. Ma Long and Dima didn't play in 2017. Dima went 1-1 with FZD and 1-0 with LGY. The historical records are interesting but enough stuff played out over the last 6 months of 2017 that there was no reason to believe that Dima had zero chance vs Ma Long in that period. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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Yeah, the ITTF ranking system is utter nonsense. Shouldn't be taken seriously
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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============ I agree with you 100%.
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skip3119
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1223 |
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"Dima went 1-1 with FZD and 1-0 with LGY. The historical records are interesting but enough stuff played out over the last 6 months of 2017 that there was no reason to believe that Dima had zero chance vs Ma Long in that period."
It is of course unfortunate that Ma Long has not played Dima last year. To be fair, Dima did have a great last year, and I believe one of his last games against Ma Long was pretty close at 4 games to 3. The record shows that Ma Longs dominance over Dima is complete. 17-0. I will have to see Dima beat Ma Long not once, maybe 3 times in a row to know somethings up. I don't see that happening. Remember they are only one year apart in age as well. FdT
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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I agree with you. My point is that you would have said similar things about Timo playing Ma Long as well this year and used the excuse that Timo had those wins when Ma Long was younger. So as damning as the record is, given that Ma Long lost to someone that Dima beat consistently and Dima beat two ther top CNT last Year, he did his job. Ma Long now has to do his. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Dream1700
Super Member Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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is Rating Central dying? I don't see the recent FZD-Dima game (German Open 2017). The tournament is still not rated after almost 2 months.
Still, a few missing tournaments should not make much difference. Here are the real standings:
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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======================== Ratings Central stopped carrying ITTF sanctioned events 3 1/2 months ago. ITTF and USATT have stable source of income, but not Ratings Central. My guess is that that is the problem. Carrying ITTF events need work, RC can not do that work for free forever. Ratings Central is dead when it comes to updating ITTF sanctioned events. ================= Here is that old thread about Ratings Central.
Edited by skip3119 - 01/07/2018 at 1:08pm |
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skip3119
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Dream1700
Super Member Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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I think the new ITTF system is a good idea since a similar approach works in tennis. BUT an alternative ranking system that is statistically valid must ALSO exist and be financed. ITTF could spend $500K/year (a wild guess) on Rating Central and force local federations to use it.
Of course, if RC is promoted then nobody will appreciate the garbage rankings the new system spits out . So, RC must die
Edited by Dream1700 - 01/07/2018 at 12:58pm |
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WeebleWobble
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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Do tennis players play often in leagues like table tennis players?
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shinchan1506217
Super Member Joined: 10/15/2017 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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If you mean something like T2APAC or Champion's league which is not a part of an umbrella organization, no because ATP and WTA players have so many world tour tournaments to play in.
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WeebleWobble
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Right. I mean, this type of rating system would work if the ITTF was the only game in town. But most table tennis players make their money from leagues, and they don't have to sit on a plane for 12 hours before playing.
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GECA
Super Member Joined: 02/11/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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Thanks,it's a video made by me for ITTF.
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Chicobo
Super Member Joined: 04/08/2015 Location: Fort Worth Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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I personally like the new system but I feel the 'drawbacks' that are the cause of criticism are valid.
What I would have liked to have seen is to have the new system be used to differentiate pro by level ranks such as Rank A (top 10 players), Rank B (#10 - #30), Rank C (#40 - #70WR). And then within each rank, have he players be sorted out with the old system. This way, it achieves what both sides want - more participation in ITTF majors (I definitely want to see Ma Long play more often) while retaining the subjective "skill" factor that people like by having more definitive player vs player records. |
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