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    Posted: 01/12/2018 at 4:17am
ITTF Table Tennis Ratings is no longer the real "World Ranking". It's now considered as a ladder for the most recent active players. It doesn't reflect the true skills level of the top players. And using the current ITTF World Ranking is dangerous.

Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system, with the hope to determine correctly the real best table tennis players in the world.

By analyzing:

43 735 table tennis matches played in 2017 (in official ITTF events)
nearly 100 table tennis international tournaments during 2017

Here is my own Table Tennis World Ranking - Senior Men for 01/2018.


Table Tennis World Ranking 2018


Want to know, how I calculate the rating of the top Men players, read more here: Table Tennis World Ranking System by EmRatThich.


Edited by EmRatThich - 01/12/2018 at 4:18am
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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:06am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:45am
"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."

No, he is not arrogant at all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:47am
That looks way more sensible and reflective of true ranking than the shitty ITTF schemes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EmRatThich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:23am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."

No, he is not arrogant at all.



Sorry, I don't mean to be arrogant.
I just try to make something better, because when I saw the current ITTF rating, it's so strange and ridiculous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EmRatThich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:26am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


Yes, it's serious :)

Take a look at Rating Central, which is considered as a better system than ITTF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:40am
Originally posted by EmRatThich EmRatThich wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."

No, he is not arrogant at all.



Sorry, I don't mean to be arrogant.
I just try to make something better, because when I saw the current ITTF rating, it's so strange and ridiculous.
ITTF do not show any players rating, it shows world ranking. And that ranking has nothing strange or ridiculous. It´s a pure ranking, who make more points gain positions, simply as that and totally fair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RG_Long_Island Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 8:34am
accurate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 9:22am
It's this! One may be a better player but if he/she doesn't participate in ITTF's events he/she won't get any points


[/QUOTE]
ITTF do not show any players rating, it shows world ranking. And that ranking has nothing strange or ridiculous. It´s a pure ranking, who make more points gain positions, simply as that and totally fair.
[/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 9:53am
There appears to be some serious confusion between RATING and RANKING.

A rating is the evaluation or assessment of something, in terms of quality (as with a critic rating a novel), quantity (as with an athlete being rated by his or her statistics), or some combination of both.

A ranking is a relationship between a set of items such that, for any two items, the first is either 'ranked higher than', 'ranked lower than' or 'ranked equal to' the second. In mathematics, this is known as a weak order or total preorder of objects.

No one (not even the ITTF) is saying Ma Long is the 7th best player in the world, that would be a rating. Their system is a ranking by recent tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 10:00am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by EmRatThich EmRatThich wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."

No, he is not arrogant at all.



Sorry, I don't mean to be arrogant.
I just try to make something better, because when I saw the current ITTF rating, it's so strange and ridiculous.
ITTF do not show any players rating, it shows world ranking. And that ranking has nothing strange or ridiculous. It´s a pure ranking, who make more points gain positions, simply as that and totally fair.
\what will this ranking be used for?  will it not be used for tournament seeding (as the old system)?  Aside from not reflecting the relative strength of the various players, it will not protect the higher seeded players in the early rounds from strong players like ML and FZD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pliuya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 1:33pm
Ranking, rating. Are we playing word game? NO. 1 means the best, period. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 1:35pm
Saw this sentence on your website:

The problem of the new ITTF rating system
The problem of the new ITTF
ranking system

Some folks know where to use the word "
Rating" and where to use the word "Ranking" - apparently not you.




skip3119
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 2:25pm
Well done, EmRatThich.
This is a more much sensible
ranking system than the crap
ittf ranking system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pliuya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 3:14pm
I finish your post. Excellent work. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:55pm
Agree. ITTF is a mess. Their ranking system is useless and doesn't represent the real strength of the players.  Ratingscentral is much better.

 However, yours is not much better. I don't see how Boll and Ovtcharov can be rated higher than Xu Xin and a few other Chinese players.


Edited by ChichoFicho - 01/12/2018 at 5:58pm
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:23pm
Would be interested in seeing your lists of:

World Top 100 - Men.
World Top 100 - Women.
===============

Question:

If you do have the above lists, do you intend to update them whenever a new ITTF event is concluded?



Edited by skip3119 - 01/12/2018 at 7:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:59pm
Where is zjk? Not even in top20?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Where is zjk? Not even in top20?
based on last year's results - no

Edited by tom - 01/12/2018 at 7:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 7:39pm
ZJK is history, he made a ranking of the current players. I found it hard to disagree with those rankings. If you think any of them are not true - make an argument. I personally think Ma Long is still # 1 but in rankings he would be #2 based on some losses. 
Ovtcharov should be an inspiration for people with weird mechanics. Shows how far u can get with crooked strokes and unbalanced game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 2:15am
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

ZJK is history, he made a ranking of the current players. I found it hard to disagree with those rankings. If you think any of them are not true - make an argument. I personally think Ma Long is still # 1 but in rankings he would be #2 based on some losses. 
Ovtcharov should be an inspiration for people with weird mechanics. Shows how far u can get with crooked strokes and unbalanced game.
I like the bold but you put too much of your personal stuff: weird mechanics? doesn't matter if they work; same with the rest. 
As you implied, willpower is key.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 3:14am
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Well done, EmRatThich.
This is a more much sensible
ranking system than the crap
ittf ranking system.

How do you like the old one now?

WCT dropped to 14 in Dec '17 and jumped back up to 7 in Jan '18.

It turns out the old system didn't reward participation as much as you made it out to be.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 3:15am
Even an amateur like EmRatThich created a better
ranking system than the clueless ittf. Just
show you how pathetic an organisation the ittf is
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EmRatThich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:53am
I think you we should read the story of Rating Centrals, how hard he spent thousands of hours to develop the system. In return, he gains nothing.

David Marcus (AUTHOR OF RATING CENTRALS)
> Don't see much, if any, advertisements by Table Tennis equipment
> companies.

See

http://www.ratingscentral.com/SupportRatingsCentral.php

> Hope they are alright.

Sean and I are fine.

> I have no connection with the company that operates the site,

Unfortunately, there is no company. It is just a hobby for me and Sean. See

http://www.ratingscentral.com/SupportRatingsCentral.php

> They probably got pissed off at the ABS ball and quit the sport completely

Sean still coaches and, I assume, plays. I haven't played in a couple of
years, so I haven't tried the ABS balls.

> DM occasionally comes on the forum to chime in on something RC related
> being debated... I would be patient.

> Hope he will show up and let the TT fans know.

I don't read this forum. Using it to communicate with me is playing "Six
degrees of separation"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation). Someone told me
today that there was this thread.

If you want to communicate with me, I don't think I'm hard to find: I
have a couple of websites with contact info:

http://www.davidmarcus.com/Personal.htm
http://www.ratingscentral.com/Problems.php

Posting to this forum is not a reliable method.

> Might be something to do with all the ITTF's website changes and how this
> makes the transferring of results to RC trickier.

About a year ago, ITTF unveiled their wonderful new site. It looked all
cool and was probably written in AngularJS. However, it was hard to view
the draw sheets: you could only see one match at a time. You wonder who
thought that was a good idea. Probably other things were messed up, too.
However, they left the old site up, so you could still find the results
there. And they soon added links from the new site to the draw sheets on
the old site.

In October, they sent out this press release:

http://mailchi.mp/d1e7fe0e4fcd/ittf-ends-information-technology-relationship-with-tms-international?e=57190ec215

So, another disastrous IT project bites the dust. At that point, the old
site disappeared and the new site stopped even having its one match at a
time results. Now, it only has PDFs of the draw sheets.

Scraping the PDFs wouldn't be a lot of fun, and it sounds like ITTF will be
trying to make changes to the site. We've seen a couple of other sites that
have ITTF data in a more usable format, but we don't know how official they
are or how they get their data. So, I'm waiting to see if things stabilize
before spending a lot of time trying to rewrite my scraper to grab data off
the current site.

We have no contacts in ITTF, so if anyone knows anything, feel free to pass
it on. I have no idea if ITTF intentionally makes the data hard to get or
it didn't occur to them that people would like to be able to get the data.

> For ITTF sanctioned events: This requires work on RC's part

It took some effort to write the scraper program. But, it generally only
took me about five minutes to submit each event (except when ITTF did
something weird with the data, like had matches where the winner was
neither of the players or made up new event codes).

> For League events: The League Director enters the data, with no work
> needed on RC's part

Yes, although it is impressive how many things event directors can do wrong
or need help with. For example, despite the instructions clearly saying
that event directors should make backups of their data, I get a steady
stream of directors telling me that they don't have the data for their old
events because they no longer have the computer they used to submit the
events.

> I suspect USATT wanted to keep DM on a leash

They mostly ignored us. The original project was suggested by Sean and the
USATT Ratings Committee. Before spending 2000 hours developing a new
system, I wanted some indication that it was wanted and would be adopted.
Some board members seemed supportive. But, words are cheap. I said that to
do the research and development, I'd need some better computing resources
(remember, this was long ago when computers were primitive). I said USATT
should pay for a decent computer and software that I could use for the
project; this would cost around $5,000. I would contribute the 2000 hours
for free. The board declined. I wasn't in the room when the Executive
Director and board discussed it, but I'm pretty sure it was because the
Executive Director didn't want to spend the money. The Executive Director
then said we could get a grant from the USOC. Perhaps foolishly, I agreed,
and we did that. Skip ahead a couple of years, and the system is ready and
the Ratings Committee recommends USATT adopt it. By this time, the few
somewhat-friendly people on the board had been voted out, and the board was
full of nutty people. We attended the board meeting where it was decided
whether to adopt the new system. The discussion was completely nutty with
board members saying things that were ridiculous (with ridiculous
PowerPoint presentations to back them up). I think the vote was 7-5 against.


In retrospect, I'm happy to not be involved with USATT. They are very hard
to work with. Tangential to Ratings Central is Zermelo, my tournament
software. This supports USATT tournaments. Twice in the last few years,
USATT has changed how they handle digital submissions of tournament
results. The first time, they emailed the three people who had tournament
software and said the system would be changing in one week (they were going
to go live with the change and announce it in literally one week) and they
were sure we would be able to modify our apps to support the new formats by
then. This was the first we had heard of this, and they didn't provide any
sample data or specs for the new formats. After several months of
discussion with them, I did manage to get them to tell us (decide) what the
new format would be and modify Zermelo to work with their new setup. Then a
year later, they changed it again, and again did not coordinate with us.

> it is there available and he can pass it on

That might be hard. There are quite a few interconnected parts.

> (A) The world-wide TT fans can write to TT equipment mfrs (Butterfly,
> DHS, Donic, Nittaku, etc.) asking them to advertise on RC's site.

We have sometimes had people pay for ads, but not regularly. I doubt you
will be able to convince companies to spend their money by writing to them.

> (B) And we can launch a donation program and get world-wide TT fans to
> donate to RC. (Personally, I will donate.)

We welcome donations:

http://www.ratingscentral.com/SupportRatingsCentral.php

We accept donations in any amount, so you are welcome to donate based on
what the site is worth to you. If you are curious what our expenses are,
this may help:

We could cover our out-of-pocket expenses

* if each director who submitted an event in the past year donated
US$5.91,

* or if each director donated US$0.25 for each event that they
submitted in the past year,

* or if each player who played in an event in the past year donated
US$0.05,

* or if each player donated US$0.01 each time they entered an event in
the past year.

David

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EmRatThich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:54am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Would be interested in seeing your lists of:

World Top 100 - Men.
World Top 100 - Women.
===============

Question:

If you do have the above lists, do you intend to update them whenever a new ITTF event is concluded?


yes, I will update it each month. And put it on pingsunday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EmRatThich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:57am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Saw this sentence on your website:

The problem of the new ITTF rating system
The problem of the new ITTF
ranking system

Some folks know where to use the word "
Rating" and where to use the word "Ranking" - apparently not you.





Thank you. I will fix it. English is not my native language.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 7:25am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Well done, EmRatThich.
This is a more much sensible
ranking system than the crap
ittf ranking system.

How do you like the old one now?

WCT dropped to 14 in Dec '17 and jumped back up to 7 in Jan '18.

It turns out the old system didn't reward participation as much as you made it out to be.


He is lucky to be ranked at No 7 at the moment , because the current system rewards participation. If a system reflects real ability of players, he should be ranked some where in the 20s.

The system should reflect the real strength of players, instead of bumping the ranking of players who participate more ittf tournaments.
Ma Long currently ranks at No 7 and Ding Ning at No 20, What a joke the current ranking is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 8:56am
That's the problem NextLevel pointed out. Everyone has their own idea what the ranking should be about.

What many people fail to realize is they are thinking only from their own point of view. They show no interest in making any attempt to see from the stance of the ITTF, the players and most importantly, the audience.

Players wanted a World Ranking reform.
ITTF wanted to sell the Tour.
Audience wanted to meet their idols.

How many of you have even gone through the minutes of the EC meeting?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 9:58am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

That's the problem NextLevel pointed out. Everyone has their own idea what the ranking should be about.

What many people fail to realize is they are thinking only from their own point of view. They show no interest in making any attempt to see from the stance of the ITTF, the players and most importantly, the audience.

Players wanted a World Ranking reform.
ITTF wanted to sell the Tour.
Audience wanted to meet their idols.

How many of you have even gone through the minutes of the EC meeting?


I have not discussed as much here.

I posted a long time ago that anyone can create their own system to measure player strength. So it is good to see I am right.

The issue with this thread is that it pretends the ITTF wants to measure player strength and the dubiously argues that the new system is flawed because it does not.

I don't know whether the ITTF will succeed in building a marketable tour. But the old system didn't give players sufficient incentive to play. And the consequences of not playing in the new system are significant.

Let's see how the players and associations and leagues respond.   But you can't evaluate the performance of a system by largely focusing on something the system wasn't intended to do.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 10:31am
Also the new system has to be in place for awhile before things shake out. Obviously now the result is nonsensical.
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