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EmRatThich 
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 Topic: Better Table Tennis World Ranking
Posted: 01/12/2018 at 4:17am |
ITTF Table Tennis Ratings is no longer the real "World Ranking". It's now considered as a ladder for the most recent active players. It doesn't reflect the true skills level of the top players. And using the current ITTF World Ranking is dangerous.
Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system, with the hope to determine correctly the real best table tennis players in the world.
By analyzing:
43 735 table tennis matches played in 2017 (in official ITTF events) nearly 100 table tennis international tournaments during 2017
Here is my own Table Tennis World Ranking - Senior Men for 01/2018.
Table Tennis World Ranking 2018
Edited by EmRatThich - 01/12/2018 at 4:18am
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zeio
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:06am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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TT newbie
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:45am |
"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."
No, he is not arrogant at all.
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Lightzy
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:47am |
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That looks way more sensible and reflective of true ranking than the shitty ITTF schemes.
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DHS H301
FH Rubber: 729 Battle II
BH Rubber: Palio AK47 Yellow
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EmRatThich
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:23am |
 TT newbie wrote:
"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."
No, he is not arrogant at all.
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Sorry, I don't mean to be arrogant. I just try to make something better, because when I saw the current ITTF rating, it's so strange and ridiculous.
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EmRatThich
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:26am |
zeio wrote:
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Yes, it's serious :)
Take a look at Rating Central, which is considered as a better system than ITTF.
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TT newbie
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:40am |
EmRatThich wrote:
TT newbie wrote:
"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."
No, he is not arrogant at all.
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Sorry, I don't mean to be arrogant. I just try to make something better, because when I saw the current ITTF rating, it's so strange and ridiculous. |
ITTF do not show any players rating, it shows world ranking. And that ranking has nothing strange or ridiculous. It´s a pure ranking, who make more points gain positions, simply as that and totally fair.
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RG_Long_Island
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 8:34am |
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accurate
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assam
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 9:22am |
It's this! One may be a better player but if he/she doesn't participate in ITTF's events he/she won't get any points
[/QUOTE]
ITTF do not show any players rating, it shows world ranking. And that ranking has nothing strange or ridiculous. It´s a pure ranking, who make more points gain positions, simply as that and totally fair. [/QUOTE]
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jfolsen
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 9:53am |
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There appears to be some serious confusion between RATING and RANKING.
A rating is the evaluation or assessment of something, in terms of quality (as with a critic rating a novel), quantity (as with an athlete being rated by his or her statistics), or some combination of both.
A ranking is a relationship between a set of items such that, for any two items, the first is either 'ranked higher than', 'ranked lower than' or 'ranked equal to' the second. In mathematics, this is known as a weak order or total preorder of objects.
No one (not even the ITTF) is saying Ma Long is the 7th best player in the world, that would be a rating. Their system is a ranking by recent tournaments.
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tom
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 10:00am |
TT newbie wrote:
EmRatThich wrote:
TT newbie wrote:
"Therefore, I decided to make my own rating system..."
No, he is not arrogant at all.
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Sorry, I don't mean to be arrogant. I just try to make something better, because when I saw the current ITTF rating, it's so strange and ridiculous. |
ITTF do not show any players rating, it shows world ranking. And that ranking has nothing strange or ridiculous. It´s a pure ranking, who make more points gain positions, simply as that and totally fair. |
\what will this ranking be used for? will it not be used for tournament seeding (as the old system)? Aside from not reflecting the relative strength of the various players, it will not protect the higher seeded players in the early rounds from strong players like ML and FZD
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pliuya
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 1:33pm |
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Ranking, rating. Are we playing word game? NO. 1 means the best, period.
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Viscaria (87g)/DHS W968 (90g)
FH: Neo Hurricane Provincial
BH: GoldArc 8/ MXP
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skip3119
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 1:35pm |
Saw this sentence on your website: The problem of the new ITTF rating system
The problem of the new ITTF ranking system
Some folks know where to use the word "Rating" and where to use the word "Ranking" - apparently not you.
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skip3119
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jackwong23
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 2:25pm |
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Well done, EmRatThich.
This is a more much sensible
ranking system than the crap
ittf ranking system.
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pliuya
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 3:14pm |
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I finish your post. Excellent work.
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Viscaria (87g)/DHS W968 (90g)
FH: Neo Hurricane Provincial
BH: GoldArc 8/ MXP
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ChichoFicho
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 5:55pm |
Agree. ITTF is a mess. Their ranking system is useless and doesn't represent the real strength of the players. Ratingscentral is much better.
However, yours is not much better. I don't see how Boll and Ovtcharov can be rated higher than Xu Xin and a few other Chinese players.
Edited by ChichoFicho - 01/12/2018 at 5:58pm
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Darker Speed 70
Hammond FA Speed
Tyotokusen
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skip3119
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:23pm |
Would be interested in seeing your lists of:
World Top 100 - Men. World Top 100 - Women. ===============
Question:
If you do have the above lists, do you intend to update them whenever a new ITTF event is concluded?
Edited by skip3119 - 01/12/2018 at 7:35pm
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skip3119
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piligrim
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 6:59pm |
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Where is zjk? Not even in top20?
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Choo-Lei
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tom
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 7:32pm |
piligrim wrote:
Where is zjk? Not even in top20? |
based on last year's results - no
Edited by tom - 01/12/2018 at 7:33pm
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Victor_the_cleaner
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Posted: 01/12/2018 at 7:39pm |
ZJK is history, he made a ranking of the current players. I found it hard to disagree with those rankings. If you think any of them are not true - make an argument. I personally think Ma Long is still # 1 but in rankings he would be #2 based on some losses. Ovtcharov should be an inspiration for people with weird mechanics. Shows how far u can get with crooked strokes and unbalanced game.
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fatt
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 2:15am |
Victor_the_cleaner wrote:
ZJK is history, he made a ranking of the current players. I found it hard to disagree with those rankings. If you think any of them are not true - make an argument. I personally think Ma Long is still # 1 but in rankings he would be #2 based on some losses. Ovtcharov should be an inspiration for people with weird mechanics. Shows how far u can get with crooked strokes and unbalanced game. |
I like the bold but you put too much of your personal stuff: weird mechanics? doesn't matter if they work; same with the rest. As you implied, willpower is key.
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zeio
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 3:14am |
jackwong23 wrote:
Well done, EmRatThich.
This is a more much sensible
ranking system than the crap
ittf ranking system. |
How do you like the old one now? WCT dropped to 14 in Dec '17 and jumped back up to 7 in Jan '18. It turns out the old system didn't reward participation as much as you made it out to be.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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jackwong23
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 3:15am |
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Even an amateur like EmRatThich created a better
ranking system than the clueless ittf. Just
show you how pathetic an organisation the ittf is
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EmRatThich
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:53am |
I think you we should read the story of Rating Centrals, how hard he spent thousands of hours to develop the system. In return, he gains nothing.
David Marcus (AUTHOR OF RATING CENTRALS)> Don't see much, if any, advertisements by Table Tennis equipment> companies.Seehttp://www.ratingscentral.com/SupportRatingsCentral.php> Hope they are alright.Sean and I are fine.> I have no connection with the company that operates the site,Unfortunately, there is no company. It is just a hobby for me and Sean. Seehttp://www.ratingscentral.com/SupportRatingsCentral.php> They probably got pissed off at the ABS ball and quit the sport completelySean still coaches and, I assume, plays. I haven't played in a couple ofyears, so I haven't tried the ABS balls.> DM occasionally comes on the forum to chime in on something RC related> being debated... I would be patient.> Hope he will show up and let the TT fans know.I don't read this forum. Using it to communicate with me is playing "Sixdegrees of separation"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation). Someone told metoday that there was this thread.If you want to communicate with me, I don't think I'm hard to find: Ihave a couple of websites with contact info:http://www.davidmarcus.com/Personal.htmhttp://www.ratingscentral.com/Problems.phpPosting to this forum is not a reliable method.> Might be something to do with all the ITTF's website changes and how this> makes the transferring of results to RC trickier.About a year ago, ITTF unveiled their wonderful new site. It looked all
cool and was probably written in AngularJS. However, it was hard to view
the draw sheets: you could only see one match at a time. You wonder who
thought that was a good idea. Probably other things were messed up, too.
However, they left the old site up, so you could still find the results
there. And they soon added links from the new site to the draw sheets on
the old site.
In October, they sent out this press release:http://mailchi.mp/d1e7fe0e4fcd/ittf-ends-information-technology-relationship-with-tms-international?e=57190ec215So, another disastrous IT project bites the dust. At that point, the old
site disappeared and the new site stopped even having its one match at a
time results. Now, it only has PDFs of the draw sheets.
Scraping the PDFs wouldn't be a lot of fun, and it sounds like ITTF will be
trying to make changes to the site. We've seen a couple of other sites that
have ITTF data in a more usable format, but we don't know how official they
are or how they get their data. So, I'm waiting to see if things stabilize
before spending a lot of time trying to rewrite my scraper to grab data off
the current site.
We have no contacts in ITTF, so if anyone knows anything, feel free to pass
it on. I have no idea if ITTF intentionally makes the data hard to get or
it didn't occur to them that people would like to be able to get the data.
> For ITTF sanctioned events: This requires work on RC's partIt took some effort to write the scraper program. But, it generally onlytook me about five minutes to submit each event (except when ITTF didsomething weird with the data, like had matches where the winner wasneither of the players or made up new event codes).> For League events: The League Director enters the data, with no work> needed on RC's partYes, although it is impressive how many things event directors can do wrongor need help with. For example, despite the instructions clearly sayingthat event directors should make backups of their data, I get a steadystream of directors telling me that they don't have the data for their oldevents because they no longer have the computer they used to submit theevents.> I suspect USATT wanted to keep DM on a leashThey mostly ignored us. The original project was suggested by Sean and the
USATT Ratings Committee. Before spending 2000 hours developing a new
system, I wanted some indication that it was wanted and would be adopted.
Some board members seemed supportive. But, words are cheap. I said that to
do the research and development, I'd need some better computing resources
(remember, this was long ago when computers were primitive). I said USATT
should pay for a decent computer and software that I could use for the
project; this would cost around $5,000. I would contribute the 2000 hours
for free. The board declined. I wasn't in the room when the Executive
Director and board discussed it, but I'm pretty sure it was because the
Executive Director didn't want to spend the money. The Executive Director
then said we could get a grant from the USOC. Perhaps foolishly, I agreed,
and we did that. Skip ahead a couple of years, and the system is ready and
the Ratings Committee recommends USATT adopt it. By this time, the few
somewhat-friendly people on the board had been voted out, and the board was
full of nutty people. We attended the board meeting where it was decided
whether to adopt the new system. The discussion was completely nutty with
board members saying things that were ridiculous (with ridiculous
PowerPoint presentations to back them up). I think the vote was 7-5 against.In retrospect, I'm happy to not be involved with USATT. They are very hardto work with. Tangential to Ratings Central is Zermelo, my tournamentsoftware. This supports USATT tournaments. Twice in the last few years,USATT has changed how they handle digital submissions of tournamentresults. The first time, they emailed the three people who had tournamentsoftware and said the system would be changing in one week (they were goingto go live with the change and announce it in literally one week) and theywere sure we would be able to modify our apps to support the new formats bythen. This was the first we had heard of this, and they didn't provide anysample data or specs for the new formats. After several months ofdiscussion with them, I did manage to get them to tell us (decide) what thenew format would be and modify Zermelo to work with their new setup. Then ayear later, they changed it again, and again did not coordinate with us.> it is there available and he can pass it onThat might be hard. There are quite a few interconnected parts.> (A) The world-wide TT fans can write to TT equipment mfrs (Butterfly,> DHS, Donic, Nittaku, etc.) asking them to advertise on RC's site.We have sometimes had people pay for ads, but not regularly. I doubt youwill be able to convince companies to spend their money by writing to them.> (B) And we can launch a donation program and get world-wide TT fans to> donate to RC. (Personally, I will donate.)We welcome donations:http://www.ratingscentral.com/SupportRatingsCentral.phpWe accept donations in any amount, so you are welcome to donate based onwhat the site is worth to you. If you are curious what our expenses are,this may help:We could cover our out-of-pocket expenses* if each director who submitted an event in the past year donatedUS$5.91,* or if each director donated US$0.25 for each event that theysubmitted in the past year,* or if each player who played in an event in the past year donatedUS$0.05,* or if each player donated US$0.01 each time they entered an event inthe past year.David
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EmRatThich
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:54am |
skip3119 wrote:
Would be interested in seeing your lists of:
World Top 100 - Men. World Top 100 - Women. ===============
Question:
If you do have the above lists, do you intend to update them whenever a new ITTF event is concluded?
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yes, I will update it each month. And put it on pingsunday
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EmRatThich
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:57am |
skip3119 wrote:
Saw this sentence on your website:The problem of the new ITTF rating system
The problem of the new ITTF ranking system
Some folks know where to use the word "Rating" and where to use the word "Ranking" - apparently not you.
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Thank you. I will fix it. English is not my native language.
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jackwong23
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 7:25am |
zeio wrote:
jackwong23 wrote:
Well done, EmRatThich.
This is a more much sensible
ranking system than the crap
ittf ranking system. |
How do you like the old one now?
WCT dropped to 14 in Dec '17 and jumped back up to 7 in Jan '18.
It turns out the old system didn't reward participation as much as you made it out to be. |
He is lucky to be ranked at No 7 at the moment , because the current system rewards participation. If a system reflects real ability of players, he should be ranked some where in the 20s. The system should reflect the real strength of players, instead of bumping the ranking of players who participate more ittf tournaments. Ma Long currently ranks at No 7 and Ding Ning at No 20, What a joke the current ranking is.
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zeio
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 8:56am |
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That's the problem NextLevel pointed out. Everyone has their own idea what the ranking should be about.
What many people fail to realize is they are thinking only from their own point of view. They show no interest in making any attempt to see from the stance of the ITTF, the players and most importantly, the audience.
Players wanted a World Ranking reform.
ITTF wanted to sell the Tour.
Audience wanted to meet their idols.
How many of you have even gone through the minutes of the EC meeting?
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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NextLevel
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 9:58am |
zeio wrote:
That's the problem NextLevel pointed out. Everyone has their own idea what the ranking should be about.
What many people fail to realize is they are thinking only from their own point of view. They show no interest in making any attempt to see from the stance of the ITTF, the players and most importantly, the audience.
Players wanted a World Ranking reform.
ITTF wanted to sell the Tour.
Audience wanted to meet their idols.
How many of you have even gone through the minutes of the EC meeting? |
I have not discussed as much here. I posted a long time ago that anyone can create their own system to measure player strength. So it is good to see I am right. The issue with this thread is that it pretends the ITTF wants to measure player strength and the dubiously argues that the new system is flawed because it does not. I don't know whether the ITTF will succeed in building a marketable tour. But the old system didn't give players sufficient incentive to play. And the consequences of not playing in the new system are significant. Let's see how the players and associations and leagues respond. But you can't evaluate the performance of a system by largely focusing on something the system wasn't intended to do.
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Baal
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Posted: 01/13/2018 at 10:31am |
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Also the new system has to be in place for awhile before things shake out. Obviously now the result is nonsensical.
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