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Return returned reversed pendulum serve balls

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kindof99 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/12/2018 at 3:31pm
I am learning reverse pendulum serves. One big problem for me is that I am having hard time to return the ball returned back to me.

I suppose that the ball is also with reversed spin and a bit floating too. Shall I return the returned ball assuming that it is served with reversed pendulum as well?

I hardly see anyone discuss this. Any suggestion is appreciated. Or any link? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 3:50pm
If you have problems with the th the return of your serve, then the serve might just no be for you. Since you're still learning the serve you might as well stop now and try a different one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 3:54pm
The reason that I am trying reversed pendulum serves is that I have trouble returning reverse spin (or backhand) serves, so I wanna get used to it.

I guess I need to open my wrist a little bit and loop it more slowly at the beginning. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 3:55pm
Assuming you talk about a passively return - why not just put the bat in front of the returned ball and see where it bounces off to? That should tell you everything you need to know. 

TLDR: Attack it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 8:04pm
I noticed this too when practicing reverse pendulum serve. A weird solution through drills I found was that I always had trouble returning with backhand but if I just took it with forehand it would work out. It may just be a personal thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2018 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Chicobo Chicobo wrote:

I noticed this too when practicing reverse pendulum serve. A weird solution through drills I found was that I always had trouble returning with backhand but if I just took it with forehand it would work out. It may just be a personal thing.

For shake handers, it is, imo, very awkward returning left side spin (i.e. the spin from a regular pendulum serve) with your backhand because you need to bend the wrist back. This is why most people return those serves with their forehand because the angle is already correct and its much easier to direct it to the side opposite from where the ball is served (and of course the opposite is true with right sidespin). Have someone hit you serves and observe the ball trajectory when the ball makes contact with the paddle in a neutral position. 
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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 5:15am
In short, you treat it like an oddball regular pendulum. Easier said than done.

The reverse pendulum serve is a difficult one to master and in turn it makes the return diffcult to handle as well.

The problem I often encounter when serving reverse pendulum is when the opponent just rolls it with all the spin back at me. Because it's often so loaded, you aren't certain in what manner and how much it will kick. Playing with the forehand is harder than with the backhand because it kicks towards elbow.

Side-top. This is the ideal case - popup w/ little kick.


Side-under. Less ideal. The return was lower than I would have liked, but because it didn't have the kick it was easier to handle.


Side-top. Really loaded. He just rolled it back, and because it was so low, barely cleared the table and coupled with the kick, I had to roll it back. God knows what wicked spin was on it at that point, but I was expecting to rip the return past him when suddenly the kick caused him to finger the shot. Instinct told me to push it back. Had I forced that one, there is a good chance I would've looped it right into the net.


Edited by zeio - 01/13/2018 at 5:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

I am learning reverse pendulum serves. One big problem for me is that I am having hard time to return the ball returned back to me.

I suppose that the ball is also with reversed spin and a bit floating too. Shall I return the returned ball assuming that it is served with reversed pendulum as well?

I hardly see anyone discuss this. Any suggestion is appreciated. Or any link? Thanks.
 

So what is your serve doing Side top  or side bottom?
which side of the table are you serving to?
how are they returning your serve push or top spin?
where are they returning to your backhand, middle or forehand?
what do you normally do next?
what happens when you doing a similar serve using a backhand stroke?

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kindof99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2018 at 7:05pm
Good play, zeio.

I guess, controlled aggression is the way to return the returned ball.

By the way, what would be zeio's USATT rating based on these videos? 2100?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2018 at 4:00pm
Here's my take if you give an underspin reverse pen serve to opponents fh and they push it back to your FH. It's going to be really difficult to loop to opponent's FH, instead you would want to loop to opponent's backhand. 

Also, if the ball land on the middle or aiming towards your elbow, try to receive it with your BH instead of stepping around and use FH. The ball will chase "into" your body making it very awkward, you will have to step wider around if you want to make your FH shot as compare to a traditional pendulum serve. 


Edited by hunkeelin - 01/16/2018 at 4:01pm
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