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Tips against attacking player

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    Posted: 01/20/2018 at 6:21pm
Hi I have tough time playing against players who would return my serves with topspin returns right from get go and this pushes me into a backfoot and I start playing defensively and eventually lose. Any tips on how to overcome this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 6:30pm
Find out how to use this to your advantage, i have some people where i serve far into their backhand. If i get a fast return to my backhand a fast block to the forehand usually gives a weak return that I can attack. The key is to find a strategy that can give you an advantage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 6:38pm
Not knowing what serves you are using I am guessing you are serving too deep. If you serve something off the table good players will loop/attack your serve no matter what spin you have. Try serving as short and low as possible to still allow your 3rd ball attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacificspice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 6:43pm
So yesterday I played an attacking player who mostly played with his FH and I was serving mostly short backspin serves towards his BH even though his BH is pretty good as well and he would still topspin with his FH from a low height and push me in the backfoot. Usually short backspin serves mostly works to get a backspin return but not against this player. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 7:28pm
If you have a player that plays forehand openings from a «wide» backhand, opening with a spinny loop. Then you have to attack this loop maybe to his forehand. It’s not easy, but against this type of player, attacking his loop and make him «run» or try to force him off the table would be preferable. It’s not easy, but it’s important to make a tactic for what you should do. If you feel better «forcing» your oponent to open with the backhand. Try to serve fast and wide to the backhand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 9:29pm
If he can attack your serves with a loop that means it's not short and low enough....You need to practice your serves so that they skim the net and double bounce!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by pacificspice pacificspice wrote:

So yesterday I played an attacking player who mostly played with his FH and I was serving mostly short backspin serves towards his BH even though his BH is pretty good as well and he would still topspin with his FH from a low height and push me in the backfoot. Usually short backspin serves mostly works to get a backspin return but not against this player. 

If he's attacking those serves with FH top spin, that means that they are either way too high or they aren't double bounce serves (short). A short serve should bounce twice on your opponents side if you let it. Are your serves truly short? If you get shorter and he starts flipping them with his BH, you can try short underspin to his FH side - just make sure it's actually short. Flicking is harder than the banana flip and if he moves to use his BH from his FH side, then he opens up the table for you unless his footwork is really good.


Edited by hookumsnivy - 01/20/2018 at 9:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 11:12pm
What is your level and what is his level?  I am asking because sometimes, people ask questions about playing styles when the real problem is the level of the opponent.

IF you are both at the same level, then this is truly a problem.  IF not, then you are really asking how to get to the level of the opponent, not just how to prevent what he is doing.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacificspice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2018 at 11:57pm
I am 1500 whereas he would be 100 - 150 points higher than me. Ofcourse I have had problems with similar players before. Even though I was mainly serving double bounce serves he was still good enough to FH flick the serves. Maybe my serves didnt carry much backspin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 12:03am
Your serves could also be too high. Serving variable spins or some side may throw him off. Also varying placement. Lots of options. Including long fast and deep to backhand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 12:21am
Originally posted by pacificspice pacificspice wrote:

I am 1500 whereas he would be 100 - 150 points higher than me. Ofcourse I have had problems with similar players before. Even though I was mainly serving double bounce serves he was still good enough to FH flick the serves. Maybe my serves didnt carry much backspin.
Short is not the same thing as double bounce and anything can be flicked once it is long enough, it all depends on how hard the flick is.  If he is flicking it and killing it, the ball is too high.  If he is flicking it with spin, then you need to learn how to attack or return with quality a ball with spin. At a certain level, you can't prevent attacks 100%, you have to learn to attack the weak and spinny attacks so that they have to be at a certain level of quality and deception for you to struggle.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 12:21am
Originally posted by pacificspice pacificspice wrote:

I am 1500 whereas he would be 100 - 150 points higher than me. Ofcourse I have had problems with similar players before. Even though I was mainly serving double bounce serves he was still good enough to FH flick the serves. Maybe my serves didnt carry much backspin.


Yes that is most likely the case. If you can get very heavy backspin serves going they will be close to impossible to flick because they don't bounce much. Have you tried the ghost serve practice where you try to make a backspin serve that goes back to the net?

That said if you have the blade angle right you can pretty much flick any short serve if you're in position. But it is unlikely going to be a strong flick and you can just counter it back to play the topspin topspin rally where most of the fun is...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 12:26pm
Unless dude is WAY under rated, a 1600-1700 level player is gunna make a LOT of mistakes and is not generally a juggernaut of serve receive. Your short underspin serve is either too high or is just right for that player.

Try a fast/deep serve right at his body or breaking away. Tryout a lot of other serves. There will not be overwhelming strength at that level on everything. Probe some more. Try to find a less consistent place or find his middle. 

Try for consistency, a player that level will make mistakes, try for placement and make opponent move. Change spins on pushes. Try to make your push as quality as it can be while changing it up. I make a ton of money on that move even vs many 2000 level players. Don't piss away the point or give it up easy with a low quality ball. Give him different and still keep it on the table. Go for it when it is there. Choke him out with consistency and placement and hammer it when he coughs it up weak. Make him pee in hiz pants outta frustration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2018 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pacificspice pacificspice wrote:

I am 1500 whereas he would be 100 - 150 points higher than me. Ofcourse I have had problems with similar players before. Even though I was mainly serving double bounce serves he was still good enough to FH flick the serves. Maybe my serves didnt carry much backspin.


Yes that is most likely the case. If you can get very heavy backspin serves going they will be close to impossible to flick because they don't bounce much. Have you tried the ghost serve practice where you try to make a backspin serve that goes back to the net?

That said if you have the blade angle right you can pretty much flick any short serve if you're in position. But it is unlikely going to be a strong flick and you can just counter it back to play the topspin topspin rally where most of the fun is...
Even fairly lowly rated players (under 1300) can make a strong flick if they get lucky.  What I've found is that for most players under 2000, when they have a strong flick it is only against a certain spin, and when you change the spin, the flick either fails or is very weak.  For example, I know a couple of players who can flick strongly against left spin serve if it's side or side-top.  Change the spin to either right spin or heavy under, and suddenly they miss repeatedly.

Of course, this assumes your serves are low to the net.  A common problem is people who focus on strong spin at the expense of a high bounce.  That will work against some players, but others will flick for a winner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/22/2018 at 8:44am
You need to learn an effective very deep serve. It is essential with 40+ balls. You have to vary depth as well as spin. Otherwise people get too comfortable.

A 1500 player can learn this but you will need buckdts of balls to practice it. You need to have confidence in it before it works.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geardaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/22/2018 at 10:36am
OP sounds like he is looking for a passive return to underspin serve towards opponents BH, and they are continuing to return topspin with BH flip or have good footwork such that they can move into an aggressive FH return.  I have certainly encountered similar things when I play someone at a 2100+ level where they simply are much more proficient at reading the spin and more consistent in being able to turn and execute a strong FH loop return.  I've noticed that in particular my FH pendulum serve from the my BH corner gets eaten alive, especially if I give them a longer underspin serve.

Well, the best attribute for any serve is deception, and they simply are not being deceived by your serve, either on spin, placement or both.  So, there are lots of things to try, such as:

1) Change your serve start position.  I've found that simply serving more from the center of the table instead of the BH corner can help make it harder for your opponent to anticipate the direction of the serve.  It keeps them guessing a little bit more on the placement of the serve.
2) Work on getting underspin, topspin, and no-spin variations with the same motion.  You should really do this with all of your serves.  Again, try to keep them guessing as to the spin on your serve.
3) Serve more no-spin and topspin serves.  No-spin serves can be very effective, even against higher level players.  Topspin serves are always a risk, as they can be aggressively attacked, so a good topspin serve must be deceptive.  Well disguised topspin and no-spin serves can be effective against a player that wants to be aggressive with their return, i.e. you can get them to go long off the table in many instances.
4) Work harder on good short serves.  Try to develop a good double-bounce topspin and no-spin variety to your short serves, which is definitely more difficult than with underspin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Makelele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/22/2018 at 11:04am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

  A common problem is people who focus on strong spin at the expense of a high bounce.  That will work against some players, but others will flick for a winner.


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