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Which Long Pips Rubber ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:53am
Hello,

Thanks for the rather prompt response..

Yes, I do understand that there is a learning curve, and one session is certainly not enough.

Before I got bought the new setup, I tried a  LP setup, of another player, at a different club.. I played with it several times, on various occasions... That was a Dtecs LP on a VKM off or all blade, with a XVE on the FH. The Dtecs, as I have read and been informed, is supposed supposed to be an advanced LP, but I found it much much easier to play with, as compared to my new setup. Which is what I find rather strange..I mean, this new setup, on the BH, seemed unplayable.. Could it be something to do with the way I glued the LPs on?


Edited by Veet - 03/25/2018 at 1:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 4:56am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Pogo was a bouncy hitting pip while dtech is more for blocking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Hello,

Thanks for the rather prompt response..

Yes, I do understand that there is a learning curve, and one session is certainly not enough.

Before I got bought the new setup, I tried a  LP setup, of another player, at a different club.. I played with it several times, on various occasions... That was a Dtecs LP on a VKM off or all blade, with a XVE on the FH. The Dtecs, as I have read and been informed, is supposed supposed to be an advanced LP, but I found it much much easier to play with, as compared to my new setup. Which is what I find rather strange..I mean, this new setup, on the BH, seemed unplayable.. Could it be something to do with the way I glued the LPs on?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 9:58am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Pogo was a bouncy hitting pip while dtech is more for blocking.


When I played with the dtecs + VKM, initially thought it was fast, and, at times a bit difficult to control.. However, I was informed that dtecs is not a beginner friendly LPI. But, trust me, compared to my new setup, I could do everything better with the dtecs and VKM setup, right from the word go, without ever even having played with LPs before.. I could siide-swipe, push, and even hit the odd ball, all with relative ease. Its what convinced me to cross over to the dark side...

Playing with this new setup, at times, made it seem as if the ball was made of heavy lead, and would drop down straight onto the table, after it touched the BH side.... Just very weird...

Is this normal behaviour for this type of setup combo? I'm hoping it's my technique.. I'll play with it tomorrow, once again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

[QUOTE=Veet] Hello,

Go with another long pip, Globe 979 OX < $10 or Giant Dragon Talon < $20 a clone for Dtecs.



It's just been 1 day .... 

I was just wondering if this type of behaviour is okay, for an OX rubber on a Defplay..

Apart from Pogo, the Dawei 388D-1 OX too came highly recommended by a lot of players on this thread...So, I bought that one too.. So, if the Pogo JUST does do it for me, I'll change to the 388D-1

But, I think I'll give the pogo some more time, hoping it's just the technique.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Playing with long pimples takes a lot of skill, especially at the higher levels (only at the lower levels do you win a lot of cheap points because the opponent does not understand how LPs work). If you expected to learn how to use it in one session, you're very optimistic. I think you need some help from a player that plays with long pimples, to show you how to adjust.

Yep.... I did take into consideration all the above, before I decided to take the plunge... I'm well aware of the learning curve.... I mentioned, right at the beginning of this thread (when I wanted suggestions for LPs), that spin continuation (or reversal), and deception are not my top priorities.. So, I'm not looking for cheap points, against any level of player. 

I didn't go in expecting much anyway, to start off with ....

It's true, apart from just trying them out, I've never really played with LP, for any continued period... However, I've been playing Table Tennis for long enough, to have a slight idea of the general mechanics of the game, and even before buying the LPs, I did a lot of reading, and understating of how LPs work, in particular the Pogo, and the 388D-1 ... but, in practicality, it was nothing like what I had read and understood.  I am simply baffled, by the way this setup was playing yesterday.. It just didn't make sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sedis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:32pm
What you describe sounds pretty normal for playing with long pips for the first time, however I'm surprised that you found DtecS easy and are having trouble with the Pogo.

Did the DtecS you tried have sponge? 


Edited by Sedis - 03/25/2018 at 4:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Sedis Sedis wrote:

What you describe sounds like pretty normal for playing with long pips for the first time, however I'm surprised that you found DtecS easy and are having trouble with the Pogo.

Did the DtecS you tried have sponge? 

The Dects I tried, was in OX... 

This belonged to a player, at another club... No one, at my club uses LPs, but a fellow-club member, who plays at another club too, mentioned that there's a LP player, at the other club. So, I went there, a couple of time, just to try-out the LP...  

I'm not saying, playing with the Dtecs was a piece of cake, right from the word go. But, even when I netted the ball,or put it long, it was due to the usual reasons, and I understood what I had done wrong, and once I made the required adjustments, it was more playable.. I could swipe, push (over table, and from a bit away from it too), place the ball, at will, and after a couple of failed attempts, even hit. When it didn't work, atleast, I knew why, or what I had done wrong, without much pointing out from any other player. My new setup, seemed a lot more unplayable, no matter what I tried.. No amount adjusting, resulted in the desired shot...

From what I've heard, seen and read, LPs, typically baffle the player on the other side. In my case, I think, I was more baffled than the player, across the table.


Edited by Veet - 03/25/2018 at 1:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:50pm
Describe your issues you had when trying the setup.. A video would be helpful to determine what the issue is.. Strokes are quite different with with long pips compared to inverted..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Describe your issues you had when trying the setup.. A video would be helpful to determine what the issue is.. Strokes are quite different with with long pips compared to inverted..

Hi Pushblocker,

Thanks for replying... I have described the issues, as well as I could, on page #2 of this thread... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2018 at 10:30pm
Playing lower level players may not be giving you the same quality of ball to play against that you experienced playing at the other club against player who were used to playing against long pips.  I found the hardest players to play against when I was using long pips were the ones who returned balls to me that had little spin for me to work with.  

One thing you could do to compensate for this is use your inverted side to make sure points start out with a good level of spin.  This should help make the long pips perform as you expect and give you fewer unexpected balls from the long pips until you begin to get some feel for what they are capable of.

I know when I play a local 2000+ long pip chopper, I try to keep the spin level at a manageable (for me) level, at least as much as I can.  So begin practice points the same way each time, probably with a heavy chop serve or if you prefer a heavy topspin ball, so you know what will be coming your way.  If you let your opponent start out the point he need to understand what you need to make it a quality practice point.  Cut down the variables as much as possible.  Another possibility would be to practice against a robot, which should give you a very similar ball to work with each time.

Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2018 at 1:05am
Hi,

Yesterday, I Had a pretty long session, with various players, who play at my level. Plus, I also invited the Dtecs player, from the other club, and he obliged.

I just put whatever I had read/watched/learnt, about playing with LP, in a small box, and stashed it away, way way at the back of my brain...


What I realized, is that, if I stay close (closer than I normally would), to the table, I could get the ball over the net... Plus, keeping the bat vertical(perpendicular to the table) did not help.. It worked, if I kept the bat angle more horizontal (parallel to the table), not completely, but towards.. 

It was much better than yesterday, I managed to get the ball over the net, for most parts..However, now the issue was getting the ball to stay low, and effective, cause most of them got put away, with relative ease. I even managed to chop,a bit away from the table.. However, I'm not too how much back-spin was generated, if any at all...I think, most of the time, I was just floating the ball. Once again, the bat angle was more towards horizontal ...weird.... just weird... 

The swipe which I was hoping would be my bread-n-butter shot - I just could not get right, no matter what I tried.. no matter, what adjustment I made..

Although, I did manage to keep the ball in play, I had a tough time controlling it, and moving it around, at will..Also, blocking with the LP, seemed impossible, with the ball simply plonking onto the table.

Also, rolling the ball on the BH, did not work.. However, I'm not too sure, if LPs, in general, like that..

Oddly, I won some easy points, when I served with my LP - especially, if I served to my opponents FH, using a side-spin/backspin type serving action. A lot of times, the return to me, was high (smack..smack...smackity smack), or more oddly, they would return wide, to their FH itself... 

When I played against the dtecs, I got massacred. This is probably cause I have no knowledge of LP  vs LP.. Later-on we swapped racquets, and even the Dtecs player had a tough time, playing with my setup. He requested that we swap back... He suggested that I try a LP with some sponge, perhaps 0.5.

The one thing I must say - This LP produces some insane knuckle-balls (mid-air wobble), on almost all shots.. However, it did not seem to bother most players.

The FH, seems a lot more controlled, while countering, looping/top-spinning, over table pushing.. I could produce some nice, curvy top-spins. This FH combo gives me the confidence to smack my opponents top-spins... On the flip-side, blocking top-spins, seems harder (than it did with my old Joyner/Neo3 combo), with the ball, almost always, flying-off long..I guess, I need to close the bat angle, a bit, than I'm used to... 

All-in-all, I feel, the sheer lack of pace, due to this setup, caused some trouble for my opponents, and some, for me too..





Edited by Veet - 03/27/2018 at 2:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2018 at 2:39pm
Veet,

the strokes with pips are nothing like the strokes with any other type of rubber.. It's similar to how you would play with sand paper with the difference that sandpaper does not dampen and slow the speed of the ball when blocking.  I can't talk for others or based on what the "correct" way to use long pips is but what works for me is to not alter the angle of the blade during the stroke.. I always block with 90 degrees off the bounce. If you block behind the table and not over the table, you will need to adjust racket angle.. 90 degrees only works when blocking right off the bounce. Another key issue with long pips is to push aggressive against underspin with a slightly open face racket. When blocking off the bounce, you can almost always block with 90 degree angle. When receiving a spinless ball, this is when it becomes tricky. Some players hit against spinless balls like they would hit with sand paper... 90 degree racket angle  sandpaper attack stroke.. Another option is just to softly push the ball as low and short as possible. Pushing against dead balls creates a floating ball that tends to go long.. So, unless you hit or chop such ball, you can't be aggressive at all as such ball will have no stability due to lack of spin. I wish that I could show you in person.. It's hard to explain the technique via a forum post..
The key is that my type of technique only works well right off the bounce.. If you let the ball get past the end of the table before you strike it, that technique will not work.


Edited by Pushblocker - 03/27/2018 at 2:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2018 at 2:57pm
I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2018 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

You need to open your blade according or do a hard push. You cannot blindfoldedly hit the ball LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2018 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.
During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.
You need to open your blade according or do a hard push. You cannot blindfoldedly hit the ball LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
====================
Saw pushblocker's advice:
Another key issue with long pips is to push aggressive against underspin with a slightly open face racket.
------------------
More or less the same as your advice.
Got to push aggressively.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:13am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by Sedis Sedis wrote:


What you describe sounds like pretty normal for playing with long pips for the first time, however I'm surprised that you found <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">DtecS easy and are having trouble with the Pogo.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Did the </span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">DtecS you tried have sponge? </span>


The Dects I tried, was in OX... 

This belonged to a player, at another club... No one, at my club uses LPs, but a fellow-club member, who plays at another club too, mentioned that there's a LP player, at the other club. So, I went there, a couple of time, just to try-out the LP...  

I'm not saying, playing with the Dtecs was a piece of cake, right from the word go. But, even when I netted the ball,or put it long, it was due to the usual reasons, and I understood what I had done wrong, and once I made the required adjustments, it was more playable.. I could swipe, push (over table, and from a bit away from it too), place the ball, at will, and after a couple of failed attempts, even hit. When it didn't work, atleast, I knew why, or what I had done wrong, without much pointing out from any other player. My new setup, seemed a lot more unplayable, no matter what I tried.. No amount adjusting, resulted in the desired shot...

From what I've heard, seen and read, LPs, typically baffle the player on the other side. In my case, I think, I was more baffled than the player, across the table.



is there any LP more dangerous or gives harder balls than Dtects?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:29am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Veet,

I always block with 90 degrees off the bounce. If you block behind the table and not over the table, you will need to adjust racket angle.. 90 degrees only works when blocking right off the bounce. Another key issue with long pips is to push aggressive against underspin with a slightly open face racket. When blocking off the bounce, you can almost always block with 90 degree angle. 

Hi Oliver,

I've watched your match-play videos, and I've observed how close to the table, you play... Same for the 90 degree racquet angle. The thing is - I feel I play close'ish to the table, however, I think you play a lot closer, and I do...So, when I moved more close to the table, I did manage to get the balls over the net, but not with the racquet at 90 degrees...But then, that kind of messed with my FH top-spinning/looping, due to how close I was to the table...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:30am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

 is there any LP more dangerous or gives harder balls than Dtects?

Giant Dragon Talon, from what I read/hear, comes-in a close second...some say, it's very similar to the Dtecs


Edited by Veet - 03/28/2018 at 12:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

 is there any LP more dangerous or gives harder balls than Dtects?

Giant Dragon Talon, from what I read/hear, comes-in a close second...some say, it's very similar to the Dtecs

Rubber still does not play by itself, so I would not expect miracles on Day 1 with any of them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 8:57am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Rubber still does not play by itself, so I would not expect miracles on Day 1 with any of them. 

I, obviously, I don't expect any miracles... not only on day 1, not ever..... I understand, that there would be a learning curve.

So, even before buying my setup, or trying the Dtecs, I did a lot of reading-up on LPs, watching training videos etc...even observing the Dtecs player...getting some pointers from him.

Then, I tried the Dtecs, and although, I found it difficult to control initially, it wasn't like (as difficult) how it was with my setup.. The Dtecs just seemed more playable..  My setup just felt weird.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 9:56am

When I first started playing with long pips I used a pips I felt comfortable. I initially started with GD Talon but couldn't control it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 11:43am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

One of my clubmates who chops and blocks with LP recently switched to Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1.  It seems to the rest of us that his game picked up about a hundred rating points.  Chops and blocks both seem to have much stronger spin reversal than before and his ability to punch with it is much more dangerous.  The pips seem very slick, like in the old days when true slick LP rubbers were still legal.  It seems like a very potent rubber.

And the packaging (which is mostly in Chinese) has an emblem that says "Light curing certification".  What's that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

One of my clubmates who chops and blocks with LP recently switched to Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1.  It seems to the rest of us that his game picked up about a hundred rating points.  Chops and blocks both seem to have much stronger spin reversal than before and his ability to punch with it is much more dangerous.  The pips seem very slick, like in the old days when true slick LP rubbers were still legal.  It seems like a very potent rubber.

And the packaging (which is mostly in Chinese) has an emblem that says "Light curing certification".  What's that?

Most likely it means they were treated... Does it even have ITTF stamp? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:58pm
Can not find this rubber on eBay:
Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1
===============

However, I found this.
But it is "Pips Kingdom", not Magic Kingdom".


Edited by skip3119 - 03/28/2018 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Can not find this rubber on eBay:

Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1
Did he mean the treated 338D-1 from taobao ? Wink
 
There are many versions of 338D-1 Dead 




then, there are couple more expensive versions:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

One of my clubmates who chops and blocks with LP recently switched to Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1.  It seems to the rest of us that his game picked up about a hundred rating points.  Chops and blocks both seem to have much stronger spin reversal than before and his ability to punch with it is much more dangerous.  The pips seem very slick, like in the old days when true slick LP rubbers were still legal.  It seems like a very potent rubber.

And the packaging (which is mostly in Chinese) has an emblem that says "Light curing certification".  What's that?

Most likely it means they were treated... Does it even have ITTF stamp? 
They are the treated rubbers from taobao; however, unlike efforter's LP rubber, I read somewhere that ITTF cannot ban them unless ITTF changes the rule.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

They are the treated rubbers from taobao; however, unlike efforter's LP rubber, I read somewhere that ITTF cannot ban them unless ITTF changes the rule.


=======================

Where can I buy this rubber?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

=======================

Where can I buy this rubber?


LOL even Skip is tempted.  Count me in, can't overlook a 100 point improvement Smile.


Edited by mhnh007 - 03/28/2018 at 3:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2018 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

=======================

Where can I buy this rubber?


LOL even Skip is tempted.  Count me in, can't overlook a 100 point improvement Smile.

taobao has them; there are 2 "light curing certification" treated LPs (388D-1 and saviga). Unlike other treated LPs, those treated LPs are as durable as the org. LPs. I played with both LPs. Ya, at least 100~200 pts sound is about right.
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