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Pushblocking/LP 2-Speed BBC Blade - Forum Testing

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rocketman222 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pushblocking/LP 2-Speed BBC Blade - Forum Testing
    Posted: 02/18/2018 at 9:46pm

In the last couple of months, I have been trying to learn how to play a push-block style instead of the routine 2 wing looper, I was talking to charlie about the need for a blade that plays harder/faster on one side and softer on the other, So Charlie came up with this 2-speed design, and I really love how it plays.

And now we want to get more feedback on this design, as well as help spread the word on it. So If you would like to help test and review this blade, please reply to this thread below.

Some of the details of the blade.

Layers - Aspen(Regular) - Avi - Avi Core - Avi - Unidirectional Carbon - Aspen(Hardened)
Weight - 88g
Handle - Rounded Straight 
Rubbers Tested with -  Giant Dragon Talon OX, Palio CK531A 0.6mm and OX
Speed - ALL on one side and ALL+ on the other

Here are some of the pictures.








Edited by rocketman222 - 02/18/2018 at 9:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nachalnik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2018 at 10:05pm
If you play a pb style, i think you would want to have a hard and stiff backhand side for a greater reversal. Softer backhand will give you greater control but you'll have to play a much more active game. Also, as far as I know, most of the pb-style players, including me, are using balsa blades with carbon/ fiberglass added. I would try the blade as I'm playing with Dragon ox on Andro Fibercomp, but I'm afraid this blade at 88g is a little to heavy for my taste. However, I would really like to hear from other pb players re this blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2018 at 10:29pm
The center plies looks like the construction of the BBC All Around. Does it play like a faster version of the All Around?

I have an over sized BBC All Around that I have Dr Evil pips on one side, inverted on the other. It is my fun blade where I am learning to chop. I have goofed around with PB style, but do more chopping.

I might be interested in trying it out if you want feedback slanted towards chopping with a little PB style thrown in. It would be from the perspective of a double inverted player that tries other styles out for fun.

(I also own a BBC Triflex and 9-9-9, Charlie makes great customized handles)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2018 at 10:54am
If you're considering European testers/reviewers, count me in. I play a pushblocking game--with FH attack much more prominent since the advent of the new plastic balls--and have used many different combo blades.  Most recently, I used the Nexy Labyrinthos with Dtecs and Andro Powergrip. Currently, Dr Neu. Matador with Gangster OX and Tenergy 05.

Looks like a beauty, Charlie!


http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=54652&title=feedbackkevo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoFootwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2018 at 12:19pm
I'm a USATT 2000 player with OX LP on BH and H3 Neo on FH.  My style is chop blocking, aggressive pushing and occasionally hitting against backspin with the LP.  I loop with my FH.  I use the LP to set up my FH.  I don't block passively with the LP.

My current setup is Dragon Talon OX LP and H3 Neo on a Dr. Neubauer Hercules blade.  Before this I was playing with Grass D.Tecs OX LP and H3 Neo on Xiom Zeta Quad blade.  

Is Aspen a good looping outer ply?  I prefer Hinoki, Limba, and Koto outer plies (in that order) for my FH.

I can be a tester and test with D.Tecs, Talon, Spinlord DG, Spinlord, and Strahlkraft LPs (all OX.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2018 at 2:30pm
What thickness? (only curious). With LP OX, I prefer thicker blades
which means balsa (could not find anything else).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2018 at 3:44pm
nice to see Charlie making blades again
Stiga Clipper Wood, Viscaria,BBC,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MydasDiablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2018 at 1:40am
I have used Combination Blades for nearly all of my time playing local league (now top tier) table tennis: Dr Neubauer Titan (made by Achim Rendler), Sauer & Troger Zeus and currently Double Day Valiant Terminator, using OX pips BH.

If it gets sent to Europe, I am interested in testing. 

If he would sell another one for a decent price? - I am happy to just buy one and post a review.

Can't find any info on the properties of Aspen wood... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2018 at 3:02am
Everyone, thanks for responding. Here are some of the answers

Swiss Aspen wood - I have tested a few of charlie's aspen blades, it feels very similar to limba wood, its good for both driving and looping, and provides great feedback.

Thickness - I don't have measuring device, but its mostly around 6.2 mm

As some of you have observed, the hardened aspen side with carbon underneath is what we believe should be used with Pips and the other side would be used for regular rubber.

Currently the testing is limited to US(due to shipping costs). Players in europe can always email charlie bladesbycharlie@gmail.com to order this model, its not on the website yet.

The way this testing would work is
  1. You get the blade in the mail
  2. You play with it for a week or 2, and then mail it to the next person in the list
  3. If you like the blade enough, you can buy it for 50$, in which case I will send a new blade to the next person on the list.
  4. Post a review on this thread.
So this is the list of US testers so far, let me know your addresses in a private message.
  • nachalnik
  • qpskfec
  • NoFootwork





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MydasDiablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2018 at 4:15am
If a US based tester can buy the blade for 50 USD then it seems only fair that Euro testers be given the opportunity to buy one for 50 USD plus the 20 USD it would cost to ship. I am happy to do that and review it, if I don't ultimately keep it then I could pass it on to another Euro tester for 50 USD. Can you ask Charlie if that would be possible?

Edited by MydasDiablo - 02/20/2018 at 4:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2018 at 7:20am
Originally posted by MydasDiablo MydasDiablo wrote:

If a US based tester can buy the blade for 50 USD then it seems only fair that Euro testers be given the opportunity to buy one for 50 USD plus the 20 USD it would cost to ship. I am happy to do that and review it, if I don't ultimately keep it then I could pass it on to another Euro tester for 50 USD. Can you ask Charlie if that would be possible?

This sounds like a plan. I'd be up for this as well. Or would happily take MasDiablo's cast off for 50$! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2018 at 11:46am
I have not played with 2 speed blade, but don't you want to have the slower, and softer side for OX?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2018 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by MydasDiablo MydasDiablo wrote:

If a US based tester can buy the blade for 50 USD then it seems only fair that Euro testers be given the opportunity to buy one for 50 USD plus the 20 USD it would cost to ship. I am happy to do that and review it, if I don't ultimately keep it then I could pass it on to another Euro tester for 50 USD. Can you ask Charlie if that would be possible?

I talked to charlie, and he is ok with this arrangement. I will IM you his paypal etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MydasDiablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2018 at 3:56pm
Great! 

Is there an appetite to test one with a flared handle, or do we (the Europeans) want to test one with the rounded straight (I personally don't twiddle but others might)?

Rocketman - do you have any comments on how the blade plays?

Mhnh007 - You need stiffer outer plies when using OX and the purpose of having carbon underneath is to provide a large area on the blade surface that gives a uniform bounce. Without sponge, the blades characteristics are much more pronounced so when you use OX on softer wood blades you can get unpredictable results depending where on the blade face you contact the ball i.e. the sweet spot might send the ball 20-30% further/faster than the outside of the blade. For effective chop blocking, pushing and off the table chopping with OX, you need to be able to rely on a consistent bounce across as much of the blade surface as possible. The other factor is reversal, typically OX pips are designed to reverse spin (or continue it technically speaking) and harder outer plies and carbon intermediate plies enhance the amount of reversal generated because the ball has less contact time with the rubber, thus less of the opponents spin is scrubbed off. You can still vary the spin to some degree with some use of the wrist and by changing the force of your grip, but not anywhere near to the degree you would with grippy sponged pips. The stiffer outer ply and presence of carbon also results in a lower throw, which is essential when using OX pips to disturb at the table and when chopping to avoid the opponent simply smacking you off the table (a real problem since the introduction of the plastic ball). The difficult part in all this is making a blade with these characteristics that 1. Is still playable on the FH as if it mimicked the BH (as it pretty much does on the S&T Zeus) you end up with a stiff and low throw blade for looping (good for SP mind you which is what Zeus was originally designed for); and 2. If the outer ply is too hard and there is too much carbon then blocking faster and spinnier loops is going to be very difficult without sending them long (i.e. Matador Texa - but that blade is good for Anti BH). I achieve the feel I want for off the table chopping and forehand looping by using a Viscaria, however I can't block a decent loop close to the table because the blade is simply too fast on the BH.

If I could choose, I would ask for this blade to have one amendment, a thin layer (so as not to affect the speed of the BH) of soft carbon or just the fiber (Kevlar or Aramid) placed under the outer ply on the FH side to expand the sweet spot for fishing/looping from distance when you get caught off the table chopping down power loops. The UD carbon on the BH should also be as thin a layer as is possible whilst retaining a uniform reaction on a large surface area of the blade (in this case the BBC blade looks spot on at achieving that Clap).     


Edited by MydasDiablo - 02/21/2018 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2018 at 8:55am
I have tried many different blades and rubbers and I always come back to balsa blades, specifically to the Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus.. I also have several custom made blades but nothing that I've tried comes close to the feel I get for my pips game with the Firewall Plus. One blade that I liked a lot before I switched to Firewall Plus was the Butterfly Grubba Variant blade. That's the only non balsa blade that I used above 2200 rating.. It actually got me into the 2200's back in 2009.. (I used AIR UPUPUPUP long pips and Friendship 729 SST Cross 1.5mm on the backhandon a Grubba Variant blade)
The plastic ball has added some new challenges for this style. Especially passive blocking is not very effective with the plastic ball. The bounciness of both, the balsa as also the soft pips that I use helps to keep dwell time to a minimum, allowing decent reversal on passive blocks.. I found that I would get less reversal with non balsa blades..


Edited by Pushblocker - 02/22/2018 at 8:56am
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MydasDiablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2018 at 4:34am
Ok, after consultation with Charlie, two blades made - one with the original ply design and one with an extra Nano Carbon layer placed under the top ply on the forehand side, both with a wide flared handle and a head size of 161x155. I will be testing both over the coming weeks, until then here are some pictures to get things started.

Blade 1 (with Nano Carbon under top ply on FH and UD Carbon under top ply on BH) 

Blade 2 (Just UD Carbon under top ply on BH) 

Craftsmanship flawless, handle is the most comfortable I have ever tried.

i will be testing the version with the Nano Carbon first and pairing it with MX-S Max FH and Grass D.Tecs OX BH. In my book, every blade designed for this style should be tested with D.TecS as a benchmark, as if it can tame that rubber then you know it is fit for purpose because D.TecS is bitchy as hell! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MydasDiablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/16/2018 at 2:24pm
Just to keep everything together, Kevo's review of the blade I was sent without the carbon on the forehand has been posted here: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82021&PN=1#1018096

I will be posting my own review of the blade I have with nano carbon on the forehand in the coming days having tested it for the last week. Essentially, I agree with everything Kevo has said in his review, but the version I have is a bit more crisp and has more power on the forehand due to the nano carbon under the top ply. Interestly though, the blade still has the feedback of an all wood blade and spin is abundant. 

If anyone else in Europe would like to test the version I have then please PM me and we can arrange it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Science Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2018 at 8:58am

                       Quantum Quad Trip (QQ-T)

In physics, a quantum leap occurs when an electron gains energy and “jumps” from a lower energy level in an atom to a higher energy level in the same atom. 

 In table tennis, a “quantum leap” occurs when a player using long pips rubber glued to the mahogany side of a QQ-T blade strikes the new plastic ball with the mahogany side of the blade causing the ball to immediately jump off his/her rubber with an abundance of alacrity. The ball seems to gain energy as it slices through the air and skitters over the net. At this point the defender may not know what to do as the ball then dances “erratically” on his/her side of the table.  The player is often befuddled by the “strange” movements of the ball and makes many striking errors.  This new table tennis weapon being used by many long pips players is made up of a top layer of mahogany and then alternating layers of carbon, cypress, carbon, cypress, carbon and a final layer of cypress.  Is it time for you to make a quantum leap to a QQ-T table tennis blade?

 A Quantum Quad-Trip blade is another fine work of art produced through the magic hands of Charlie at BBC.  Charlie has many fine blades on display at his elaborate website (http://www.bladesbycharlie.com).  You are sure to find a blade to fit your table tennis needs at a fair price.  Check it out!  By the way, players using various types of rubbers can utilize the QQ-T.  It seems to be particularly efficacious when it is used in conjunction with long pips on the mahogany side of the blade.       



Edited by Bob Science - 05/25/2018 at 5:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Science Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2018 at 5:07pm

Quantum Quad Trip (QQ-T) Test

 

My previous post was a general description of a QQ-T blade that I had just begun using at home with my robot and at club.  I actually wrote the post about a month ago, but I placed it online just this morning. This report is a follow-up to that post. I write this Post, not to bloviate, but to give you, the reader, confidence in my comments about the QQ-T blade. 

 

There are about 70 players in our club, six of whom are ranked well over 1900 by the USATT.  Presently, I am ranked fourth in our club.  I am using Tibhar GRASS D.TecS (red ox LP) on my backhand and Victas VO>102 (1.8 SP) on my forehand.  Before using the QQ-T I was using a Quad-Trip blade made by Charlie at BBC (Blades By Charlie).  The Q-T is an excellent blade, and I used it extensively for several months.  Upon Charlie’s recommendation I tried the QQ-T on an experimental basis.  I made a wise choice because this blade is adding another dimension to my LP game. The speed of the plastic ball off the backhand side of the blade (mahogany) is quicker than the Q-T on its backhand (cypress) side.  This leaves opponents less time to deal with the deception of the ball caused by the long pips.  And, when dealing with long topspin balls by my opponents, I find that I can do a better job of being able to place my own topspin on the ball in return.  Normally, it is very difficult to return a topspin ball with another topspin ball when using GDT or other LP rubbers.  However, it is not nearly as much of a problem when using the QQ-T blade.  Overall, I would rate the QQ-T as an offensive blade.  But, this blade, as with the Q-T, seems to have “gears” and allows an at the table defender to return speedy shots by the opponent.  Also, ball movement on the forehand side of The QQ-T seems a little quicker than that of the Q-T. 

I am confident in my statements about the QQ-T because my practice partner and others have stated how difficult it is to deal with my LP on the QQ-T blade.  I am so confident in my play with the QQ-T blade that I am going to ask Charlie to make another one for me as a backup.  You might consider ordering your own blade by Charlie from his website at (http://www.bladesbycharlie.com). Thumbs Up
 



Edited by Bob Science - 05/27/2018 at 2:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2018 at 1:20pm
Just to keep things together, as MasDiablo said above, here is my review of the BBC Combo blade with update:

I received the blade from MasDiablo--thanks John!--and tested it last night. It is the original version with a layer of carbon under the hardened Aspen wood on the BH. You can see pics--again, thanks John!--below.

 

Blade 2 (Just UD Carbon under top ply on BH)     

https://imgur.com/a/XbxJo[1] 

 

This is a preliminary review, after playing with it for two hours of drills with a few sets at the end. In the past two years I’ve mainly used the Dr. Neubauer Matador with DTecs or Gangster but have recently returned to using the Nexy Labyrinthos with DTecs, sacrificing some control for faster, spinnier blocks and a more powerful FH. I play 1st Division league tt here in Ireland—though I would be in the lower range of this level, particularly since the new ball came in—which I would imagine is around 2000+ range in US rankings. The player I tested with is a 2 wing power looper/hitter who I would imagine to be 2300+--he played at a v high level in Poland--when he is competing. We used Xushofa and Nittaku Premium plastic/ABS balls.  

 

I paired the blade with a sheet of Tenergy 05 2.1 on the FH and OX Grass DTecs on the BH. 

 

 

Build Quality: First off, the quality of the blade is amazing. I've only ever owned one handmade blade--an OSP Pushblocker OX, which I loved but found too slow on the FH, more anon--and this BBC Blade is equal to it in all ways in terms of craftmanship and aesthetics. Like the OSP, this blade is beautiful to look at. More importantly, it feels great in the hand. The blade for testing came with a wide FL handle and, despite having only used ST handles for the past 10 years, I loved it. The balance of the blade is perfect and despite conventional wisdom, I found the FL handle on this blade easy to twiddle with. 

 

 

Performance BH: The BH side is, quite simply, amazing. The carbon layer just under the hardened Aspen makes the whole blade face one large sweet spot. The throw angle with the DTecs was low and laser straight and the braking effect was one of the best I've come across, particularly on harder loops. This was a really unique feature, I felt. With Balsa blades, the harder the loop, the faster the ball comes off the block. This can be good or bad depending on your style etc. Here, the blade soaked up the pressure of hard, spinny loops, sending back low, linear but shortish blocks (when played with a soft hand) with more than adequate backspin. Though I’m used to the DTecs, I could imagine this to be the perfect blade for a player who wants a more dangerous, disruptive LP rubber such as the DTecs but is wary of sacrificing control. This blade enhanced the DTecs qualities while taming its excess speed.

 

Chopping off the table was fine, though I wouldn’t say the blade is designed specifically for this and I only do it myself when I get in trouble. This is a pushblocker’s blade and as such it is great. It was easy to move the ball around the table and attacking backspin was a dream. The carbon/hardened Aspen gives better than average backspin but also seems soft somehow—probably bc I’ve been using the balsa/carbon Labyrinthos lately—allowing really easy fast pushes and attacking shots. The overall control was fabulous and this is perhaps what makes this the first proper Pushblocking/Combo blade for use with the new plastic balls.

 

Performance FH: The FH side is where I fell out of love with this blade, but this is down to what I’m used to, rather than anything about the blade itself. I found the FH quite ‘dwelly’ and somewhat slower than I am used to. I tend to win most of my points with my FH and have become accustomed to the crisp, low throw of the Labyrinthos (and the somewhat lower throw of the Matador). The throw angle here, in stark contrast to the BH side, is quite high when paired with the Tenergy 05. (Note: T05 is a high throw rubber so a lower throw rubber might solve this.) This is by no means a bad thing, though. In fact, it is unique in that most Combo blades hardly differ at all in terms of performance between the FH/BH where is there is a real contrast here. This is really impressive, particularly since the only blades that are known to have such a contrast between sides are the very expensive, thick Adler/Neubauer balsa combos.

 

The FH side of this blade is great for looping, particularly from mid-distance. Maybe paired with a harder or thinner rubber it would be perfect. I play close/mid distance normally and at the table I found myself blocking a lot of balls off the table and that my loops had too high a throw angle to be dangerous to a high level opponent. It does have great control however, and I really liked how much spin it imparted when serving.

 

In conclusion, I felt the FH to be a slightly ‘dwellier’  ‘loopier’ and more controlled version of the Matador, while the BH was a new, unique alternative to the standard, high-end balsa blocking blades.

 

Overall, this is a great new blade from BBC, purpose built for Pushblocking with the new ABS plastic balls.

 Update: I used the BBC Combo blade in a recent tournament with Xiom Omega VII on the FH. Wow! Really works well. Easier to deal with incoming spin than with Tenergy 05 for some reason, and the looping was out of this world. So consistent. After only a short warm-up I really got my groove on and was landing FH winners all over the shop. And the spin on serves is great. 

It is also a great blocking blade with LPs. Every block is low and straight. It lacks the 'punch' of balsa blades, which I'm used to, but is so easy to control. 

The handle is thick-ish and very comfortable in the hand. Despite being FL--and I normally play with ST handles--it was easy to twiddle.

A great blade for LP/Antispin at the table blockers.

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