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FITeT: Cheaters No Passaran !!

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    Posted: 04/11/2018 at 7:44pm
FITeT is Federacio di Italiano Tennis Tavolo to govern the whole sport inside the country.
FITeT has just approved the testing device to control pimpled rubbers.



Regulatory Document to introduce the Battester Device into practise use.
http://www.fitet.org/la-federazione/regolamenti/regolamenti-attivita-agonistica.html?download=4314:regolamento-attivit%C3%A0-squadre-2017-2018-parte-generale

Regolamenti dell’Attività a Squadre e dei relativi Campionati
Parte Generale – Stagione Agonistica 2017/2018
Quote 9. – Al fine di impedire il fenomeno della manipolazione illecita delle gomme rispetto a quelle
regolarmente omologate, a partire dalla corrente stagione sportiva è stato introdotto l’uso di uno
strumento di misura denominato BATTESTER, collaudato dal Dipartimento di Chimica Materiali Ingegneria del Politecnico di Milano, omologato dalla FITeT, atto a rilevare con certezza l’attrito della pallina sui rivestimenti puntinati. Le societa ospitanti di incontri a squadre oppure
organizzatrici di manifestazioni individuali, se in possesso dello strumento di misura, potranno consegnarlo al personale arbitrale oppure al dirigente di Società, qualora non sia presente l'Ufficiale di gara, per le operazioni di controllo finalizzate a stabilire il corretto attrito che la superficie della gomma puntinata deve avere in base ai Disciplinari ITTF.


Originally posted by Google robotic Translator Google robotic Translator wrote:

]
9. - In order to prevent the phenomenon of illegal handling of rubber compared to those regularly approved, starting from the current
sports season was introduced the use of a measuring instrument called BATTESTER, verified by the Department of Chemistry Materials and Engineering of the Polytechnic of Milan, approved by FITeT, able to
detect with certainty the friction of the ball on the pips-out coatings. The host societies of team meetings
or organizers of individual events, if in possession of the measuring instrument, will be able to hand it over to the arbitration staff or to the
Company manager, if the Official is not present, for the control operations aimed at establishing the correct friction that the surface of
the pimpled rubber must have according to ITTF specifications.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2018 at 10:23pm
They created a device for a rule that does not exist. While it is clear that a rubber must have a certain friction when AUTHORIZED/SOLD but there is no rule that makes a rubber illegal that has lost it's friction due to use. Lack of friction is not the same as proof of treatment. Anybody who has been playing tt for a while has played against 20 year old Srivers or Mark V that play like anti and trust me, they are not treated.. Rubbers do lose friction naturally due to use and old age. NOTHING in the rule would make such rubber illegal. There is NO RULE that requires the rubber to retain a certain friction when used given that it is untreated and uniform. Of course, if the Italian association does have such rule, they can legally enforce it but based on official ITTF rules, there is no friction requirement when used if the rubber is untreated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:34am
This is the new age of inquisition of TT. The rubber rack for those that are witched or cursed.
Rosewood V FL

Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH

Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:40am
The device looks like a badass mousetrap.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 4:14am
Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 8:00am
I am Italian and I have personally tested the tester:
1) the tester works fine
2) the difference between frictionless LP and regular LP is so different as
 to be impossible to mistake the evaluation on a rubber
(the test weight on a regular lp takes 15 + seconds to slip away on
a frictionless lp takes less than 1 second) 3) almost all of those who criticize the test are use frictionless LP then irregular. 4) I hope that the Italian way is an example to develop real controls
on materials and to prevent advantage
from not regular equipment.(lp frictionless---booster...ecc..ecc.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 8:04am
In Italy the use of irregular LP rubber is widespread and the bat tester has already considerably reduced their use.
Users of frictionless LP have moved to anti frictionless which, although they have an
 excellent degree of spin reversal, do not give the same advantages
as a frictionless lp.


Edited by andras - 04/12/2018 at 8:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 8:06am
I thought the numwric frictiin requirement only applied to pips, not inverted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 8:08am
Battester in action.

https://youtu.be/33Q1LBBhRKg
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 8:17am
in this moment only LONG PIMPLE
inverted, short and medium pimple not have frictionless limit.
In the video red rubber is regular black rubber is frictionless


Edited by andras - 04/12/2018 at 8:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 9:36am
Let's go after blockers and defenders... there are way too many of them on the tour. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 10:04am
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

Let's go after blockers and defenders... there are way too many of them on the tour. 


I bet the blockers and defenders on the tour are not the ones who'll worry about this test?

Now, if they come up with something to detect boosting (not just VOC's), that'll cause some worry on the tour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 10:51am
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.

Applicable rules:

2.04.07.01 Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.


The word "they" clearly refers to deviations of continuity..Therefore, the 2nd part of the phrase only applies if there ARE deviations.. If there are no deviations, the part regarding playing characteristics does not even come into play.. If you don't believe me, ask a professor of the english language. THEY clearly refers to the damage.. If it does not refer to damage, what does it refer to??

So, if this was written as a computer program, it would be like this:

IF DEVIATION DUE TO DAMAGE THEN
---IF DAMAGE CHANGES CHARACTERISTICS THEN
------ILLEGAL
---ELSE
------MAY BE ALLOWED
---END IF
ELSE
---LEGAL
END-IF

The other rule:

Quote:
2.04.07 The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.
This means that you may not treat the rubber.



As I said, there are no rules that require the rubber to maintain it's properties from new as long as it is not treated..  The Italian Association makes the assumption that all rubbers with lower than factory friction are lower friction because of treatment. This is obviously false. Rubber properties do change with use and age.. That's a FACT.

They are CIRCUMVENTING that due process within the ITTF. Rules are passed by the AGM (Annual General Meeting) and Regulations (as the ones for manufacturers) are passed by the BoD (Board of Directors). The BoD has NO AUTHORITY to pass any type of RULES, just REGULATIONS.  The BoD can only enforce RULES on the book and not rules that they think should be in place. As I pointed out, there are no rules that require a minimum friction of ANY rubber when used. ITTF is violating it's own bylaws if they enforce a rule that does not exist.


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 11:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.

Applicable rules:

2.04.07.01 Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.


The word "they" clearly refers to deviations of continuity..Therefore, the 2nd part of the phrase only applies if there ARE deviations.. If there are no deviations, the part regarding playing characteristics does not even come into play.. If you don't believe me, ask a professor of the english language. THEY clearly refers to the damage.. If it does not refer to damage, what does it refer to??

So, if this was written as a computer program, it would be like this:

IF DEVIATION DUE TO DAMAGE THEN
---IF DAMAGE CHANGES CHARACTERISTICS THEN
------ILLEGAL
---ELSE
------MAY BE ALLOWED
---END IF
ELSE
---LEGAL
END-IF

The other rule:

Quote:
2.04.07 The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.
This means that you may not treat the rubber.

ELSE
---LEGAL


Hmmm.. I don't think so. 
If the deviation is slight -> might be legal if damage or wear does not significantly alter characteristics. 
If the deviation is NOT slight -> illegal.
Simon_plays' recollection of the rules is very much in line with the rule you quoted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 11:59am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.

Applicable rules:

2.04.07.01 Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.


The word "they" clearly refers to deviations of continuity..Therefore, the 2nd part of the phrase only applies if there ARE deviations.. If there are no deviations, the part regarding playing characteristics does not even come into play.. If you don't believe me, ask a professor of the english language. THEY clearly refers to the damage.. If it does not refer to damage, what does it refer to??

So, if this was written as a computer program, it would be like this:

IF DEVIATION DUE TO DAMAGE THEN
---IF DAMAGE CHANGES CHARACTERISTICS THEN
------ILLEGAL
---ELSE
------MAY BE ALLOWED
---END IF
ELSE
---LEGAL
END-IF

The other rule:

Quote:
2.04.07 The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.
This means that you may not treat the rubber.

ELSE
---LEGAL


Hmmm.. I don't think so. 
If the deviation is slight -> might be legal if damage or wear does not significantly alter characteristics. 
If the deviation is NOT slight -> illegal.
Simon_plays' recollection of the rules is very much in line with the rule you quoted.

The quote only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS. If there are NO DEVIATIONS, the whole paragraph does not apply. The word "THEY" CLEARLY refers to deviations. If a rubber has no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. So, if the wear is uniform with no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. It's very basic English language..  Let me ask you this, what does "THEY" refer to if not deviations? 


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

The quote only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS. If there are NO DEVIATIONS, the whole paragraph does not apply. The word "THEY" CLEARLY refers to deviations. If a rubber has no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. So, if the wear is uniform with no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. It's very basic English language..  Let me ask you this, what does "THEY" refer to if not deviations? 

There is no disagreement that "they" refers to deviations, and my post does not suggest otherwise.  The whole context of what you quoted surrounds deviations.  And of course if there are no deviations, then that's not a problem.

But if there *are* deviations, then it might be illegal as 2.04.07.01 tries to clarify, and it's very much in line with what Simon_plays wrote.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

The quote only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS. If there are NO DEVIATIONS, the whole paragraph does not apply. The word "THEY" CLEARLY refers to deviations. If a rubber has no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. So, if the wear is uniform with no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. It's very basic English language..  Let me ask you this, what does "THEY" refer to if not deviations? 

There is no disagreement that "they" refers to deviations, and my post does not suggest otherwise.  The whole context of what you quoted surrounds deviations.  And of course if there are no deviations, then that's not a problem.

But if there *are* deviations, then it might be illegal as 2.04.07.01 tries to clarify, and it's very much in line with what Simon_plays wrote.
 
I guess we are in agreement.. If there is a rubber that is UNIFORMLY WORN with no deviations in color, outlook, friction etc.. then there is nothing that would make a low friction rubber illegal IF IT IS NOT TREATED. Of course, IF there are deviations, it may be deemed illegal..


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 12:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

The quote only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS. If there are NO DEVIATIONS, the whole paragraph does not apply. The word "THEY" CLEARLY refers to deviations. If a rubber has no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. So, if the wear is uniform with no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. It's very basic English language..  Let me ask you this, what does "THEY" refer to if not deviations? 

There is no disagreement that "they" refers to deviations, and my post does not suggest otherwise.  The whole context of what you quoted surrounds deviations.  And of course if there are no deviations, then that's not a problem.

But if there *are* deviations, then it might be illegal as 2.04.07.01 tries to clarify, and it's very much in line with what Simon_plays wrote.
 
I guess we are in agreement.. If there is a rubber that is UNIFORMLY WORN with no deviations in color, outlook, friction etc.. then there is nothing that would make a low friction rubber illegal IF IT IS NOT TREATED. Of course, IF there are deviations, it may be deemed illegal..

Fair enough.  My only issue was with your computer program, specifically the "ELSE LEGAL" part.  If I had as input to your program, a rubber that grossly deviated from the original, but the deviation was *not* due to accidental damage, your program would spit out legal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

The quote only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS. If there are NO DEVIATIONS, the whole paragraph does not apply. The word "THEY" CLEARLY refers to deviations. If a rubber has no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. So, if the wear is uniform with no deviations, the 2nd paragraph does not apply. It's very basic English language..  Let me ask you this, what does "THEY" refer to if not deviations? 

There is no disagreement that "they" refers to deviations, and my post does not suggest otherwise.  The whole context of what you quoted surrounds deviations.  And of course if there are no deviations, then that's not a problem.

But if there *are* deviations, then it might be illegal as 2.04.07.01 tries to clarify, and it's very much in line with what Simon_plays wrote.
 
I guess we are in agreement.. If there is a rubber that is UNIFORMLY WORN with no deviations in color, outlook, friction etc.. then there is nothing that would make a low friction rubber illegal IF IT IS NOT TREATED. Of course, IF there are deviations, it may be deemed illegal..

Fair enough.  My only issue was with your computer program, specifically the "ELSE LEGAL" part.  If I had as input to your program, a rubber that grossly deviated from the original, but the deviation was *not* due to accidental damage, your program would spit out legal.

OK... what I meant is that specific  rule "DOES NOT APPLY". 
What still applies is the 2nd rule that the rubber may not be treated.. So, if you use a clear coat paint spray on top of your rubber, it may still be uniform but it still is not legal as it is treated..
Same goes for using Armor All on top of your rubber.. Uniform.. yes ... legal... no...

Armor All makes your rubber illegal.. but makes it smell really good...


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 1:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.
Exactly x2, 
Players like Pushblocker give blockers and defenders a bad ref Dead


Edited by Egghead - 04/12/2018 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:22pm
I think it is only reasonable to ban both rubbers without friction and with friction. 

What is the high reason to favor one kind of material, or one kind of player?

Your game is table tennis, and others' game is not table tennis?


Edited by book4all - 04/12/2018 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.
Exactly x2, 
Players like Pushblocker give blockers and defenders a bad ref Dead

Rules are Rules and Rules that don't exist are not rules.. If there "should be" a rule that a rubber has to be close in properties to the original properties, then the AGM has to pass such rule.. It does not exist in our current set of rules.


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 1:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.
Exactly x2, 
Players like Pushblocker give blockers and defenders a bad ref Dead

Rules are Rules and Rules that don't exist are not rules.. If there "should be" a rule that a rubber has to be close in properties to the original properties, then the AGM has to pass such rule.. It does not exist in our current set of rules.
Did you read the "2.04.07.01" ? 
Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.
Exactly x2, 
Players like Pushblocker give blockers and defenders a bad ref Dead

Rules are Rules and Rules that don't exist are not rules.. If there "should be" a rule that a rubber has to be close in properties to the original properties, then the AGM has to pass such rule.. It does not exist in our current set of rules.
Did you read the "2.04.07.01" ? 
Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.

Again, do you speak English??

This rule only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS!! This does not apply if there are no deviations. So, if a rubber is UNIFORM, this does NOT apply.. This is BASIC ENGLISH.. 
Again, what does "THEY" refer to?? 


2.04.07.01 Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that THEY do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 1:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Battester in action.

https://youtu.be/33Q1LBBhRKg

Lol, that black rubber looks definitely overcooked :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Isn't there something in the rules that says rubbers need to have reasonably similar characteristics to when they were new? So slightly worn Mark V is fine but worn to anti, no matter how it happened, is not fine.
Exactly x2, 
Players like Pushblocker give blockers and defenders a bad ref Dead

Rules are Rules and Rules that don't exist are not rules.. If there "should be" a rule that a rubber has to be close in properties to the original properties, then the AGM has to pass such rule.. It does not exist in our current set of rules.
Did you read the "2.04.07.01" ? 
Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.

Again, do you speak English??

This rule only applies IF THERE ARE DEVIATIONS!! This does not apply if there are no deviations. So, if a rubber is UNIFORM, this does NOT apply.. This is BASIC ENGLISH.. 
Again, what does "THEY" refer to?? 
I am not. So, does it mean that I cannot point out cheaters Embarrassed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

I am not. So, does it mean that I cannot point out cheaters Embarrassed


Can't recall that you called any of the people posting in "boosting" threads to be cheaters.. Boosting (other than done by factory) is ILLEGAL and nobody seems to complain about it.....
Using a old rubber that is uniformly worn is NOT illegal.

Cheating is "VIOLATION" of rules.. If rules are not violated, it's not cheating..


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 1:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

I am not. So, does it mean that I cannot point out cheaters Embarrassed


Can't recall that you called any of the people posting in "boosting" threads to be cheaters.. Boosting (other than done by factory) is ILLEGAL and nobody seems to complain about it.....
Using a old rubber that is uniformly worn is NOT illegal.
It is illegal if the characteristics of that old rubber surface are significantly changed Wink

BTW, don't need to do all child plays; we are all adult here, and we want to have an adult conversation.


Edited by Egghead - 04/12/2018 at 1:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

I am not. So, does it mean that I cannot point out cheaters Embarrassed


Can't recall that you called any of the people posting in "boosting" threads to be cheaters.. Boosting (other than done by factory) is ILLEGAL and nobody seems to complain about it.....
Using a old rubber that is uniformly worn is NOT illegal.
It is illegal if the characteristics of that old rubber surface is significantly changed Wink

No, it's not.. IF THE RUBBER IS UNIFORM, there is ZERO requirement that the surface may not have significantly changed.. That rule is written in CLEAR English. The requirement that the properties may not significantly change is CONDITIONAL (see the word "THEY" which refers to damage or lack of uniformity).
If the condition (lack of uniformity) does not apply, then there is no requirement for the rubber to have certain properties. Again, this is written in clear English..

Again, "THEY" refers to this:

Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear

So, if a rubber has NO deviations from continuity , uniformity of color etc, the part of the rule AFTER THEY does not apply! It is as simple as that..

Boosting falls under TREATMENT and is always illegal except if done by the factory! Even if boosting make zero difference in rubber performance, it is still illegal unless done by the factory..
So, if you soak your sponge in oil to increase the tension on the rubber by expanding the sponge, you are treating the rubber.. This is a fact.

2.04.07 The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.


Edited by Pushblocker - 04/12/2018 at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2018 at 2:19pm
Well, there's also this:


page 5:
 
8. Friction for pimples-out The coefficient of kinetic friction between the rubber and a table tennis ball must be at least 0.50. In the test laboratory, a normal force of 50mN is applied.

It cannot be too worn out.
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