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FITeT: Cheaters No Passaran !!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 12:59am

The friction long pips have more shot options than the frictionless pips.
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Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 1:04am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:


 Wear only causes an issue if it causes lack of uniformity. If it doesn't, the rule does not apply. The english language used for the rule is not ambiguous. It is 100% clear.
C'mon, if you want to keep believing the second only son of God exist,  no one will stop you;  I'm out too LOLLOLLOLLOL




Edited by Egghead - 04/14/2018 at 1:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 3:19am
let's do like this:
Italy proposed the test to stop the cheaters with frictionless LP.
If in the US the problem seems to be the booster instead of complaining
 you create an effective test to find out who uses the booster.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 3:33am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


The friction long pips have more shot options than the frictionless pips.

absolutely yes!
but try to play a frictionless lp player with a regular lp and see if he is able to
 make the shots need to vary the game?
the vast majority of frictionless players without those rubber would fall in different
categories because the frictionless allows you to play almost without taking care of
 the incoming effect, with two shots (block and push) and almost always play the back
side of the table so moving a little.

the proof that they often only win thanks to the rubber is that they beat players with
 great hits and instead lose with low-level players who play very simply playing balls
without spin or hit quality. this because the point get it thanks to the rubber that sends back the incoming effect
 but if it does not reach effect they do not have the shots to make the point.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 5:00am
The promoter of the Italian initiative against cheaters in the table tennis will be in
 Las Vegas for the veteran world championships from 18/06 to 24/6 along inside the
Italian expedition if someone wants to make contact. The facebook contact is @lasvegas2018


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 6:06am
Sounds like the words of a frictionless pips user Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:


 Wear only causes an issue if it causes lack of uniformity. If it doesn't, the rule does not apply. The english language used for the rule is not ambiguous. It is 100% clear.
C'mon, if you want to keep believing the second only son of God exist,  no one will stop you;  I'm out too LOLLOLLOLLOL



Rules are written in the English language and the sentence of that rule is clear and not ambiguous. It says what it says and not what someone would want it to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 10:08am
Note:  I am not necessarily disagreeing with Pushblocker's distinction between Rules and Regulations and the absence from the Laws of the Game of any reference to change in playing charaacteristics over the course of time.  However,
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Rules are written in the English language and the sentence of that rule is clear and not ambiguous. It says what it says and not what someone would want it to say.
The clarity of the sentence is not as unambiguous as Pushblocker would have us believe as he himself is failing to state its meaning.  In an earlier post (and consistently throughout) he claimed:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Applicable rules:

2.04.07.01 Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface.


The word "they" clearly refers to deviations of continuity..Therefore, the 2nd part of the phrase only applies if there ARE deviations.. If there are no deviations, the part regarding playing characteristics does not even come into play.. If you don't believe me, ask a professor of the english language. THEY clearly refers to the damage.. If it does not refer to damage, what does it refer to??


There are two sets of conditions linked by the conjunction "or" in Rule 2.04.07.01:
1.  There are two kinds of slight deviation: continuity of surface, uniformity of colour
2.  There are two kinds of cause for deviation: accidental damage, wear.

"They" refers to both kinds of slight deviation - either deviation in continuity of surface or deviation in uniformity of colour.  Pushblocker only states the first of these, when in fact either can be a factor for disqualifying a rubber.

Plus, "they" refers not only to damage.  It also refers to wear.  So there are in fact four sets of circumstances under which a rubber might be disqualified:
1.  Deviation in continuity of surface caused by damage
2.  Deviation in uniformity of colour caused by damage
3.  Deviation in continuity of surface caused by wear
4.  Deviation in uniformity of colour caused by wear.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:


The word "they" clearly refers to deviations of continuity..Therefore, the 2nd part of the phrase only applies if there ARE deviations.. If there are no deviations, the part regarding playing characteristics does not even come into play.. If you don't believe me, ask a professor of the english language. THEY clearly refers to the damage.. If it does not refer to damage, what does it refer to?? 

There are two sets of conditions linked by the conjunction "or" in Rule 2.04.07.01:
1.  There are two kinds of slight deviation: continuity of surface, uniformity of colour
2.  There are two kinds of cause for deviation: accidental damage, wear.

"They" refers to both kinds of slight deviation - either deviation in continuity of surface or deviation in uniformity of colour.  Pushblocker only states the first of these, when in fact either can be a factor for disqualifying a rubber.

Plus, "they" refers not only to damage.  It also refers to wear.  So there are in fact four sets of circumstances under which a rubber might be disqualified:
1.  Deviation in continuity of surface caused by damage
2.  Deviation in uniformity of colour caused by damage
3.  Deviation in continuity of surface caused by wear
4.  Deviation in uniformity of colour caused by wear.

Sorry he knows it; he does not miss that. That is his pt in page 4.


Then, he brings the same pt back in the page 5.



 It is a waste of time to talk to him. So, I am out LOL


Edited by Egghead - 04/14/2018 at 11:01am
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 12:51pm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/41274424682/

makes me wonder why a player at that level would play with a rubber that is dirty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2018 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/41274424682/

makes me wonder why a player at that level would play with a rubber that is dirty?
You don't know that the "dirtier" / "wear out" the better ShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 1:17am
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

the question is that in Italia and not only in Italia it works like this:
in order to play sanctioned tournaments you must be registered with the f.i.t.e.t.
at the time you sign up, you accept the regulation imposed by the fitet.
If the fitet puts in the regulation that your racket must pass this test, by registering 
you have accepted the test. Alternatively you can play tournaments under other federations but are NOT registered
to I.t.t.f. and therefore are only amateur.
So you must toss the ball up near vertical and 16.25 cm and the court size is ittf rules and you have a umpire and assistant umpire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 1:23am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/41274424682/

makes me wonder why a player at that level would play with a rubber that is dirty?
You don't know that the "dirtier" / "wear out" the better ShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked
look at the over hang https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/39529603150/in/photostream/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 1:58am
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


The friction long pips have more shot options than the frictionless pips.

<pre ="tw--text tw-ta tw-text-small" -placeholder="Traduzione" id="tw-target-text" style="text-align: left; height: 120px;" -fulltext="" dir="ltr"><span lang="en">absolutely yes!
but try to play a frictionless lp player with a regular lp and see if he is able to
 make the shots need to vary the game?
</span><span lang="en">the vast majority of frictionless players without those rubber would fall in different
categories because the frictionless allows you to play almost without taking care of
 the incoming effect, with two shots (block and push) and almost always play the back
side of the table so moving a little.</span>
<span lang="en">the proof that they often only win thanks to the rubber is that they beat players with
 great hits and instead lose with low-level players who play very simply playing balls
without spin or hit quality.
this because the point get it thanks to the rubber that sends back the incoming effect
 but if it does not reach effect they do not have the shots to make the point.</span>
<span lang="en"></span>


If it is that easy to win with just pushing and blocking, how come there aren't lots of players doing it and winning ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 2:34am
this is the e-mail of the creator of the bat tester
offredi@finishing.it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 2:38am
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

the question is that in Italia and not only in Italia it works like this:
in order to play sanctioned tournaments you must be registered with the f.i.t.e.t.
at the time you sign up, you accept the regulation imposed by the fitet.
If the fitet puts in the regulation that your racket must pass this test, by registering 
you have accepted the test. Alternatively you can play tournaments under other federations but are NOT registered
to I.t.t.f. and therefore are only amateur.
So you must toss the ball up near
 vertical and 16.25 cm and the court size is ittf rules and you have a umpire and
assistant umpire

depends on the level of competition in Italy we have d2-d1-c2-c1-b2-b1-a2-a1
d2-d1-c2 the referee may be requested if there is no one choosing a player who takes
 up his function. from the c1 a then there is the referee.
in all the sanctioned tournaments there is the referee



Edited by andras - 04/15/2018 at 2:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 2:58am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


The friction long pips have more shot options than the frictionless pips.

<pre ="tw--text tw-ta tw-text-small" -placeholder="Traduzione" id="tw-target-text" style="text-align: left; height: 120px;" -fulltext="" dir="ltr"><span lang="en">absolutely yes!
but try to play a frictionless lp player with a regular lp and see if he is able to
 make the shots need to vary the game?
</span><span lang="en">the vast majority of frictionless players without those rubber would fall in different
categories because the frictionless allows you to play almost without taking care of
 the incoming effect, with two shots (block and push) and almost always play the back
side of the table so moving a little.</span>
<span lang="en">the proof that they often only win thanks to the rubber is that they beat players with
 great hits and instead lose with low-level players who play very simply playing balls
without spin or hit quality.
this because the point get it thanks to the rubber that sends back the incoming effect
 but if it does not reach effect they do not have the shots to make the point.</span>
<span lang="en"></span>


If it is that easy to win with just pushing and blocking, how come there aren't lots of players doing it and winning ?


I speak of medium and low levels where most people play.
At high levels these rubber are less effective as the opponent usually knows how to deal 
with them.
to play at good levels with these rubber you need excellent forehand and use it a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 3:07am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcLp2sd94N0
this is Roberto Negro best  frictionless player in italy (play antitop frictionless = regular rubber)
look at how much the forehand uses.
opponent is stoyanov Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 3:13am
The typical frictionless player is Dr. neubauer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMSwhYaZ6aY
Do you think that with that technique that mobility would have won many veteran
 world championships without its rubber?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 4:41am
Batra has just won thanks to a totally frictionless LP.
Someone still has doubts about whether a test for the attrition is not necessary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 5:08am
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcLp2sd94N0
this is Roberto Negro best  frictionless player in italy (play antitop frictionless = regular rubber)
<pre ="tw--text tw-ta tw-text-medium" -placeholder="Traduzione" id="tw-target-text" style="text-align: left; height: 72px;" -fulltext="" dir="ltr"><span lang="en">look at how much the forehand uses.
opponent is stoyanov Cool
</span>


Wow, guys like Negro are hard to find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 10:29am

I don't see any frictionless long pips players playing at the clubs in my area.

How many frictionless lp players are there in clubs you guys frequent ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 10:41am
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

Batra has just won thanks to a totally frictionless LP.
Someone still has doubts about whether a test for the attrition is not necessary



That's quite a claim without actual proof. I think you owe Batra an apology.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 10:51am
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

Batra has just won thanks to a totally frictionless LP.
Someone still has doubts about whether a test for the attrition is not necessary
NO NO NO, you are wrong. I am 100% her rubber is not frictionless LP. However, I am also 100% sure her LP is not original. Something happened to her rubber Embarrassed


Edited by Egghead - 04/15/2018 at 10:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 10:56am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

 

If it is that easy to win with just pushing and blocking, how come there aren't lots of players doing it and winning ?
we are talking about frictionless  LP Embarrassed; Youtube has many Europe local tournaments, and you can see few of the LP players were using treated (~frictionless) LP.


Edited by Egghead - 04/15/2018 at 11:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 11:09am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


I don't see any frictionless long pips players playing at the clubs in my area.

How many frictionless lp players are there in clubs you guys frequent ?
It is be'cos you cannot buy frictionless lp in the TT shops. Anyway, 3 guys at my club play with treated LP (non of them are really frictionless LP).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/41274424682/

makes me wonder why a player at that level would play with a rubber that is dirty?
You don't know that the "dirtier" / "wear out" the better ShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked
look at the over hang https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/39529603150/in/photostream/
look at what Confused


Edited by Egghead - 04/15/2018 at 1:08pm
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 1:21pm
If there was friction control, no one would think that a player uses an irregular lp rubber.
P.S. from the images the return spin is really high
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 2:46pm
FAIRLY USEFUL TESTING DEVICE.



My ultimate opinion is
-- this device meets the purpose perfectly well. It can INDEED indicate those unduly slick pimples in most cases.

PLAYER OUGHT TO UNDERSTAND: It is no matter why the racket fails in the test. The greasy pimples is the player's fault as well as the treated pimples.

Yes, of course, some allowance for mechanical wear of the pimples should be made, and the board slope angle must be reduced a little. (I can offer some more calculations).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2018 at 3:22pm
You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill, there are only a few Frictionless long lips players. I play with long pips, don't like the feel of frictionless, too limiting.
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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