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VictorK View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/14/2018 at 3:32pm
I found out few days ago that Joola has come up with a new ball called Prime 40+, which is ABS ball, and I noticed on the Joola USA website that they are already selling it for $8.95 for a box of 6 balls.

Does anyone have any additional information about, or experience playing with this new ball?

Is Joola planning to continue/discontinue selling the Flash 40+ seamless balls?
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I just got to try out the Joola Flash today.  Apparently, that's the ball that they're going to use at the WVC.  I thought it wasn't bad, but the persona who owned it swears by it (but he also likes the XuShaFa balls).

Now I'll have to try the Prime?

Anyway, I had the impression that the Flash was seamless but ABS balls are seamed.
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Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I just got to try out the Joola Flash today.  Apparently, that's the ball that they're going to use at the WVC.  I thought it wasn't bad, but the persona who owned it swears by it (but he also likes the XuShaFa balls).

Now I'll have to try the Prime?

Anyway, I had the impression that the Flash was seamless but ABS balls are seamed.
Flash and Xushaofa are great balls, as well as DHS D40
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Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I just got to try out the Joola Flash today.  Apparently, that's the ball that they're going to use at the WVC.  I thought it wasn't bad, but the persona who owned it swears by it (but he also likes the XuShaFa balls).

Now I'll have to try the Prime?

Anyway, I had the impression that the Flash was seamless but ABS balls are seamed.
Flash and Xushaofa are great balls, as well as DHS D40

My league is moving away from seamless clones like Flash, Xushaofa and Stag to ABS balls from this autumn. The durability of seamless balls is so poor. 
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We have been playing with DHS this season and we got our supplies from TTNPP.  It was very upsetting to see that the recent 2 boxes of DHS D40+ we got from ttnpp are terrible, almost half of a 72 box contained nasty egg balls.

This pushed us to look into other ABS balls so we gave the Tibhar SYNTT NG a try and we like a lot. It seems to be made of a similar material to Nittaku Premium but it plays like a DHS D40+ and feels like a harder / heavier D40+. Maybe the Joola Prime is the same.



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The new abs balls coming into the market now labeled as made in China are very likely dhs D40+ balls rebranded.

Each company buying from dhs would negotiate their terms for quality, so it is possible that different brands will have better quality.

Someone brought in a Donic abs ball to the club a few weeks ago. Similar play as described above for the Tibhar ball. It is highly likely that these as well the Joola abs ball are made by dhs.

The 72 dhs D40+ I bought from ttnpp were not so good. I will not buy these from ttnpp again. The boxes I bought from paddle palace have all been very good.
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Here are links to Joola's German and US sites showing the "New" Prime ABS ball being already sold.  BTW, both sites are also selling the Flash ball.
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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I have heard its colour is yellowish instead of full white. In terms of behaviour, it plays slower than Flash and does not bounce as high.

In a word, I strongly suspect it is a rebranded DHS D40+.
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I got box of six Joola Prime 40+ balls, and was able to play with them for about 1.5 hours.

Overall, Joola Prime balls look and play similarly to the DHS ABS balls (my gut tells me they are made by DHS), except that the seam is less visible on Joola Prime.  

Also, all six balls were round, bounced consistently, and didn't wobble at all (wobble was my main gripe with the Flash balls) ... which coupled with the fact that they don't break easily (none broke despite being hit with an age of the blade on few occasions) and the price ($8.95 for 6 balls), makes it a very good ball, IMO.  
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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What I think is that the Joola Prime is a rebranded DHS D40+ that has gone through strict quality control checks.

The second-rate DHS D40 balls are given to shops like TTNPP that sell them for dirt cheap, this is why many of us got boxes that contain below standard balls. On a side note, we did some testing of the Tibhar SYNTT NG 40+, Donic P40+, Stiga Perform 40+ and all of them seem to be completely different to the DHS D0+. We liked the Tibhar best, then the Donic and although it has some good qualities, the Stiga came third.
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I just saw on the Joola Teams website that the Joola Prime 40+ balls will be used at the North American Teams Tournament this November.
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Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

What I think is that the Joola Prime is a rebranded DHS D40+ that has gone through strict quality control checks.

The second-rate DHS D40 balls are given to shops like TTNPP that sell them for dirt cheap, this is why many of us got boxes that contain below standard balls. On a side note, we did some testing of the Tibhar SYNTT NG 40+, Donic P40+, Stiga Perform 40+ and all of them seem to be completely different to the DHS D0+. We liked the Tibhar best, then the Donic and although it has some good qualities, the Stiga came third.

Our club supplies balls for general play.  I recently told our members that we needed to buy more (purchases like this are based on soliciting donations) and I gave them two choices:

Nittaku J-top training balls at $0.75/ball from Paddle Palace or

DHS D40+ 3-star balls at $0.55/ball from TTNPP.

I have my own bag of balls that I use, which is a mix of brands.  I've been happy with the DHS D40+ balls I purchased last summer from TTNPP, but I've seen some complaints there.

So the question is: if this were you club, which would you purchase?  Right now, the popular response here are the Nittaku J-Top balls, but I'm not convinced.  What do people of the forum think?

I will add that when price is not a consideration, the overwhelming favorite around here are Nittaku Premium 3-star balls.
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Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

What I think is that the Joola Prime is a rebranded DHS D40+ that has gone through strict quality control checks.

The second-rate DHS D40 balls are given to shops like TTNPP that sell them for dirt cheap, this is why many of us got boxes that contain below standard balls.


I feel like this needs a sticky.

Quote
On a side note, we did some testing of the Tibhar SYNTT NG 40+, Donic P40+, Stiga Perform 40+ and all of them seem to be completely different to the DHS D0+. We liked the Tibhar best, then the Donic and although it has some good qualities, the Stiga came third. 

Are you kidding me? When you say "completely different", what do you mean?

Surface texture?
Hardness?
Speed?
Height of bounce?
Trajectory on smash?
Trajectory on spin loop?
Trajectory on drive loop?
Trajectory on chop?

At this point, I thought that the ABS formulation would at least be a stable design (the way the the XuShaoFa and the rebranded seamless balls feel the same)...

Pity me for thinking that balls could be uniform across brands.

I am tempted to buy a stash of Nittaku Premium 3* 40 Celluloid balls, and then give my opponents the option to play with it instead of any of the club or tournament balls.

Only someone who prefers a Big Mac to a Steak would choose incorrectly.
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I've played with DHS D40+, Joola Prime, and Butterfly A40+ and I didn't notice very significant differences between these three balls in the way thy played.  They actually felt quite similar to me.
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

What I think is that the Joola Prime is a rebranded DHS D40+ that has gone through strict quality control checks.

The second-rate DHS D40 balls are given to shops like TTNPP that sell them for dirt cheap, this is why many of us got boxes that contain below standard balls.


I feel like this needs a sticky.

Quote
On a side note, we did some testing of the Tibhar SYNTT NG 40+, Donic P40+, Stiga Perform 40+ and all of them seem to be completely different to the DHS D0+. We liked the Tibhar best, then the Donic and although it has some good qualities, the Stiga came third. 

Are you kidding me? When you say "completely different", what do you mean?

Surface texture?
Hardness?
Speed?
Height of bounce?
Trajectory on smash?
Trajectory on spin loop?
Trajectory on drive loop?
Trajectory on chop?



I do not care about texture, my main concern is how a ball plays. The rest of what you said cover the differences.

The following is for offense but take it with a pinch of salt because we play exclusively on Joola 2000S tables and you may experience differences on other brands.

In more detail: the Tibhar resembles the D40+ most in terms of trajectory but it is full white instead of yellowish white. Also, it feels harder the the DHS and speedwise it might be a bit faster. Perhaps it bounces a little higher  and a little longer. For comparison, the Joola Flash bounces outrageously high compared to these two.

The Donic P40+ has fallen out of our grace, the trajecory is noticeably different to the above, the main difference is that you cannot spin it up the way you can the Tibhar or the DHS. It is good for smashers but not for the technical aspects of the game. Middle of the road quality from Donic, just like in the case of the Bluefires / Bluestorms. It bounces higher than the Tibhar or DHS but still a lot lower than Flash but there is barely any topspin on it however hard you try.

Subjectively speaking, because of a number of factors, the Flash feels faster than the D40+, Tibhar SYNTT NG 40+ or the Donic P40+.

The Stiga feels really hard and rigid compared to the above balls, almost like a Nittaku Premium, though different from it and it resembles the D40+ the least. It feels almost as fast as a Flash but it is affected by spin in a different way, so one has to adjust their game a bit. It feels spinnier than the Nittaku Premium which I consider a piece of stone. The big problem with the Stiga is that - in spite of its rigidity - it dents a little after the second strong shot and when you try to block it, it will become different to block as its material regains its form on the blade, giving it an extra kick the force of which is difficult to predict.

On long pimple defence off the table:

I tested all of the above with the same partner who is competent in playing against long pimples. The exercise was for him to pivot and topspin into my backhand where I chopped with long pimples (DTECS Grass 1.2).

He had the most difficulties against the D40+ as it bounced the least high and it stopped sooner than he predicted.  In terms of playing experience, the Tibhar was the most enjoyable for both of us. He could spin it reasonably, I was able to chop with reasonable consistence and we did not encounter some anomalies as we did with the DHS D40+ we got from TTNPP. For a moment, the Stiga seemed the best because I could really load up the first two chops and he hit a lot of balls in the net. However, when we started another drill, which was to push one and topspin one into the longpips, the Stiga's extreme rigidity kicked in and I was unable to land the chop on the topspin after his push. I did a lot better in this kind of exercise with either the Tibhar or the DHS.

For comparison, I could not do anything to mess up his game with a Nittaku Premium, he was able to blast the ball between my eyes any time he wanted. With the Flash, I could chop reasonably, but it is not possible to chop so hard that stops the opponent to pound a chopper into submission.

I came to the conclusion that the Flash and the likes are the worst from the point of view of defenders along with the Nittaku Premium. The best was the Tibhar in terms of playing experience and the most effective was the D40+ because of its behaviour (lowest bounce).

On their material: we have enountered two kinds of D40+, one of them is yellowish and the other is white. As for the Tibhar, they are all full white and their texture compared to the D40.



Edited by Hans Regenkurt - 05/18/2018 at 10:33am
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Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:


Nittaku J-top training balls at $0.75/ball from Paddle Palace or

DHS D40+ 3-star balls at $0.55/ball from TTNPP.

I have my own bag of balls that I use, which is a mix of brands.  I've been happy with the DHS D40+ balls I purchased last summer from TTNPP, but I've seen some complaints there.

So the question is: if this were you club, which would you purchase?  Right now, the popular response here are the Nittaku J-Top balls, but I'm not convinced.  What do people of the forum think?


I am in the same boat. I too bought a box of d40+ a while ago... and loved them. I was going to buy more but recent complains concern me... 

Any other options besides d40+ and j top??
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Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:


Our club supplies balls for general play.  I recently told our members that we needed to buy more (purchases like this are based on soliciting donations) and I gave them two choices:

Nittaku J-top training balls at $0.75/ball from Paddle Palace or

DHS D40+ 3-star balls at $0.55/ball from TTNPP.

I have my own bag of balls that I use, which is a mix of brands.  I've been happy with the DHS D40+ balls I purchased last summer from TTNPP, but I've seen some complaints there.

So the question is: if this were you club, which would you purchase?  Right now, the popular response here are the Nittaku J-Top balls, but I'm not convinced.  What do people of the forum think?

I will add that when price is not a consideration, the overwhelming favorite around here are Nittaku Premium 3-star balls.


We do not have much experience with plastic training balls yet because we have been using the DHS D40+ for training too but given their quality we have decided that we are going to buy from another brand that does not get rid of second rate balls the way DHS does.

If the quality of the D40+ from TTNPP was acceptable, I would buy those as training balls. I have heard that some Joola sponsored clubs and even national associations use the new Joola Prime 40+ for training.
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My club uses the Joola Prime ball and has switched from the Flash. I was one of the 1st clubs to receive the Prime balls and everyone liked them right away.

I'm pretty sure they are the new DHS ABS ball as their bounce appears to be identical. Players that mainly used the Nittaku Premium balls also liked them, so I have switched to these balls. I believe JoolaUSA will eventually switch to the Prime balls the Flash balls sometime later this year. The only complaint I would make is that the gold logo appears to wear out quickly.
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Joola ABS is not good for choppers or anti players
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abs is bad for any spin-based playstyle, you are only 2 years late to notice, though faster than many others.

club memberships are already decreasing at an alarming rate, and introducing balls that turn TT into TTX surely doesn't contribute to making people take the sport seriously.
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THE BEST CONSENSUS EVER...   

We have recently done a friendly agreement with all our club members. We all now agree on the DHS D40+.   We all feel so happy now.
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Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

THE BEST CONSENSUS EVER...   

We have recently done a friendly agreement with all our club members. We all now agree on the DHS D40+.   We all feel so happy now.

unfortunately, if you are bound only to club you can play even with celluoloid, but if you play tournyes you have no choice as in my instance I will be playing NA team where joola prime abs is mandatory.
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Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

I got box of six Joola Prime 40+ balls, and was able to play with them for about 1.5 hours.

Overall, Joola Prime balls look and play similarly to the DHS ABS balls (my gut tells me they are made by DHS), except that the seam is less visible on Joola Prime.  

Also, all six balls were round, bounced consistently, and didn't wobble at all (wobble was my main gripe with the Flash balls) ... which coupled with the fact that they don't break easily (none broke despite being hit with an age of the blade on few occasions) and the price ($8.95 for 6 balls), makes it a very good ball, IMO.  


I haven't tried the Joola ABS yet. But the smaller seam is interesting. Nittaku developed a new way of attaching ball halves for their Premium ABS. Their seam is barely visible. DHS doesn't seem to use the same method for the D40+, at least not obviously for any I have seen. Their seam is very easy to see. Does this mean Joola contracts with a different factory? Or maybe we will see this with D40 balls before long? It is worth keeping an eye on this.
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I  think the materials differ and  that influences how certain rubbers react
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Could be. There are many variations in ABS plastics.
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Like most clubs we have struggled with and tried many brands and types of the new plastic balls.  Several months ago we started using the Joola Prime 3 star and the 1 star version of the ball (Magic Ball).  So far these balls have been very popular and I think our search for a ball that most people will enjoy playing with has ended.  The bonus is the low price for the balls in comparison with many brands.  

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as i said above if you play with regular rubber not much of the difference , it is anti and pips which affected substantially
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Are there still quality control problems with the DHS D40+ from TTNPP?
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Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

Are there still quality control problems with the DHS D40+ from TTNPP?


It would be interesting to know. I stopped buying from there because of this.
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Originally posted by osmar92 osmar92 wrote:

as i said above if you play with regular rubber not much of the difference , it is anti and pips which affected substantially

Actually I find that if you play with hard inverted rubber, some of the balls aren't hard enough to get the sponge working properly on a regular basis. Double Fish and DHS balls are the worst for me. They suck! 
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