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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 2:01am
Ma Last Long will be Olympic Champion again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 2:09am
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 
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Originally posted by Tempest/Comet Tempest/Comet wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

With all of the Harimoto discussion, I think props must be given to Mima Ito (nice little move from 7th to 5th).  She continues to improve tremendously with really good deception and variation on her serves and an improved forehand (in terms of speed/consistency/placement).  Really look forward to seeing her at the Tokyo Olympics.

The race for the 2 singles slot for the Oympics began with the WTTTC for the Japanese girls. The 2 openings will be given to the highest two in WR as of January 5 2020. From the WTTTC, Ito took 2000pts, Ishikawa 1750 and Hirano 1500. These are good for two yrs, therefore qualify for the best 8 ranking points in January2020.
It was a pleasure to watch Ito, with a unique style all of her own, coming to the fore. I think we’ll see al three in Team, but which fwo for the singles?


One of those 2 slots has to go to Ito. She gives the CNT the most trouble of the three. Even in her 7th game loss to SYS at the 2018 German Open, SYS was very uncomfortable throughout the match and really had to come up with some great shots in the 7th to take the match.

You can just see that Mima Ito is the most confident of the 3. Could she pull off a Miu Hirano at the Tokyo Olympics? Now that would be something!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 

European players stay in their peaks longer than the chinese. Europeans still play quite well in their mid 30s. Most chineses' playing level began to regress after age  30~32. . The hard training they did when they were in their junior days probably took their toll.


Edited by jackwong23 - 05/12/2018 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 


European players stay in their peaks longer than the chinese. Europeans still play quite well in their mid 30s. Most chineses' playing level began to regress after age  30~32. . The hard training they did when they were in their junior days probably took their toll.



Na Long has a very all round game that is hidden by his forehand dominance against certain opponents. As the GOAT IMHO, if anyone can support decent longevity, it is him.He would have to change some of his point patterns and hold off some up and coming players but he is still the man.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 


European players stay in their peaks longer than the chinese. Europeans still play quite well in their mid 30s. Most chineses' playing level began to regress after age  30~32. . The hard training they did when they were in their junior days probably took their toll.



Na Long has a very all round game that is hidden by his forehand dominance against certain opponents. As the GOAT IMHO, if anyone can support decent longevity, it is him.He would have to change some of his point patterns and hold off some up and coming players but he is still the man.


Well said NL, agree with you, he is still the man to beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 12:28pm
Ma Long still the one to beat until proven otherwise. He has seen it all and his game has no real weakness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.


I think Harimoto has greater upset potential - i don't think there's 10 players in the world that would beat FZD, for example, so in a big match, I'd actually rather have Harimoto than some other players ranked say 20-50th.

I'd rather have some other players against say the #50 in the world, but for upsets, Harimoto has great pedigree [in both directions, as he's young, inexperienced  and thus volatile]. He's gone right down to the wire against Xu Xin a few times, Dima, Timo, FZD etc. Those are all the very best in the world, esp. when Harimoto was playing them.<span ="apple-tab-span"="" style="white-space:pre">     </span>The only one missing from the best that Harimoto hasn't had a really strong game at least, is ML, and i'm not sure he's played him yet.<span ="apple-tab-span"="" style="white-space:pre">     </span>




They haven't played recently but their one match wasn't competitive or expected to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2018 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 


European players stay in their peaks longer than the chinese. Europeans still play quite well in their mid 30s. Most chineses' playing level began to regress after age  30~32. . The hard training they did when they were in their junior days probably took their toll.



because they wear out faster. ma long has to fight against liang jinkun lin gaoyuan ma te xx and an army of teens. how many players the same level liang jinkun xx lin were in sweden and belarus.

boll dima and samsonov have players they need to fight against to keep them at the top? none . waldner and samsonov wouldnt have lasted that long if they would have born in china
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 1:49am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 


European players stay in their peaks longer than the chinese. Europeans still play quite well in their mid 30s. Most chineses' playing level began to regress after age  30~32. . The hard training they did when they were in their junior days probably took their toll.



because they wear out faster. ma long has to fight against liang jinkun lin gaoyuan ma te xx and an army of teens. how many players the same level liang jinkun xx lin were in sweden and belarus.

boll dima and samsonov have players they need to fight against to keep them at the top? none . waldner and samsonov wouldnt have lasted that long if they would have born in china

Came here to post this - China can be selective because they have that luxury


Other regions are more than happy to have older players like Samsanov, Boll and CCY play forever because there is little to drive them out of the team, in terms of competitive integrity [i.e. sending your strongest team out]. Add that to their appeal and marketability / following / legend / experience, and that would warrant sending them even if they were approximately tied.

In China, there simply is always someone taking your place, so people like Zhang Jike can't in good faith argue to be ahead of the likes of FZD for too long, when the latter is posting such results/performances.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 4:59am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
Yeah, right.  And JO was 35 when he took silver at the Sydney Olympics, 39 fourth in Athens, 34 for 4th in WTC.  Samsonov is also an easy beat, only placed 5th at age 40 in 2016 Olympics. 


European players stay in their peaks longer than the chinese. Europeans still play quite well in their mid 30s. Most chineses' playing level began to regress after age  30~32. . The hard training they did when they were in their junior days probably took their toll.



because they wear out faster. ma long has to fight against liang jinkun lin gaoyuan ma te xx and an army of teens. how many players the same level liang jinkun xx lin were in sweden and belarus.

boll dima and samsonov have players they need to fight against to keep them at the top? none . waldner and samsonov wouldnt have lasted that long if they would have born in china


Came here to post this - China can be selective because they have that luxury<span ="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">     </span>


Other regions are more than happy to have older players like Samsanov, Boll and CCY play forever because there is little to drive them out of the team, in terms of competitive integrity [i.e. sending your strongest team out]. Add that to their appeal and marketability / following / legend / experience, and that would warrant sending them even if they were approximately tied.

In China, there simply is always someone taking your place, so people like Zhang Jike can't in good faith argue to be ahead of the likes of FZD for too long, when the latter is posting such results/performances.




That is why I said Ma long would not last long. 
( In 2, 3 years time ,Someone will take his place)
The 2020 olympics should be his last.I expect his playing level to drop off quickly
after 2020.


Edited by jackwong23 - 05/13/2018 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 8:53am
I am of the personal opinion that Wang Hao could have played longer and tortured Ma Long more were he more willing to do some gym work.  Though Ma Long did improve his backhand technique in 2014 and may not have been as susceptible in 2015.  In any case, he has a family and there are FZD and LJK, but I think that generational talents and modern  medicine can help against father time for those willing to try.  If Timo Boll can still beat the pursuing pack of CNT, why can't Ma Long?

He may slow down but I don't think it will be a drop off in level. There really need to be 2 more CNT upcomers as otherwise why should he stop?  FZD is likely already close or better but who else?


Edited by NextLevel - 05/13/2018 at 8:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I am of the personal opinion that Wang Hao could have played longer and tortured Ma Long more were he more willing to do some gym work.  Though Ma Long did improve his backhand technique in 2014 and may not have been as susceptible in 2015.  In any case, he has a family and there are FZD and LJK, but I think that generational talents and modern  medicine can help against father time for those willing to try.  If Timo Boll can still beat the pursuing pack of CNT, why can't Ma Long?

He may slow down but I don't think it will be a drop off in level. There really need to be 2 more CNT upcomers as otherwise why should he stop?  FZD is likely already close or better but who else?


I agree with you that Wang Hao could have played longer and Ma Long can keep on playing at high level. But I think the moment they stop is when they realize someone has surpassed them and they have little chance of winning some big single title again. They don't want to be second best.

Wang Hao still created problems for ML but he couldn't beat ZJK. So, after a few times trying and always lost to ZJK in the final, he kind of lost the drive. And with ML improving all the time, he might think his chance was over.

FZD is still behind ML in my opinion, but he's close, when he and/or someone else catches and surpasses ML, ML will retire. But he'll still be the player to beat in next 2-3 years. I don't see anyone close to him besides FZD at the moment but 2-3 years is a long time in table tennis, anything can happen.


Edited by balldance - 05/13/2018 at 12:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PythonMonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

If Timo Boll can still beat the pursuing pack of CNT, why can't Ma Long?

Because Ma Long depends on foot speed more than Timo Boll. Didn't Timo joke that he was the slowest number one in history? Ma Long won't be able to make the same joke unless he also makes substantial changes in style and technique. I wouldn't put it completely past him, but much more difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I am of the personal opinion that Wang Hao could have played longer and tortured Ma Long more were he more willing to do some gym work.  Though Ma Long did improve his backhand technique in 2014 and may not have been as susceptible in 2015.  In any case, he has a family and there are FZD and LJK, but I think that generational talents and modern  medicine can help against father time for those willing to try.  If Timo Boll can still beat the pursuing pack of CNT, why can't Ma Long?

He may slow down but I don't think it will be a drop off in level. There really need to be 2 more CNT upcomers as otherwise why should he stop?  FZD is likely already close or better but who else?


I agree with you that Wang Hao could have played longer and Ma Long can keep on playing at high level. But I think the moment they stop is when they realize someone has surpassed them and they have little chance of winning some big single title again. They don't want to be second best.

Wang Hao still created problems for ML but he couldn't beat ZJK. So, after a few times trying and always lost to ZJK in the final, he kind of lost the drive. And with ML improving all the time, he might think his chance was over.

FZD is still behind ML in my opinion, but he's close, when he and/or someone else catches and surpasses ML, ML will retire. But he'll still be the player to beat in next 2-3 years. I don't see anyone close to him besides FZD at the moment but 2-3 years is a long time in table tennis, anything can happen.



I get your logic.but I don't think that being number 1 is all that matters to Ma Long. I think that as long as he is top 3 in CNT or isn't regarded as someone who is a cancer on the National team, he will leave when he wants to. Longevity is something I think he wants to demonstrate as another dimension of his greatness if he can. Wang Liqin would have done it if he could but the lack of a real backhand was simply something he couldn't over come.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I am of the personal opinion that Wang Hao could have played longer and tortured Ma Long more were he more willing to do some gym work.  Though Ma Long did improve his backhand technique in 2014 and may not have been as susceptible in 2015.  In any case, he has a family and there are FZD and LJK, but I think that generational talents and modern  medicine can help against father time for those willing to try.  If Timo Boll can still beat the pursuing pack of CNT, why can't Ma Long?

He may slow down but I don't think it will be a drop off in level. There really need to be 2 more CNT upcomers as otherwise why should he stop?  FZD is likely already close or better but who else?


I agree with you that Wang Hao could have played longer and Ma Long can keep on playing at high level. But I think the moment they stop is when they realize someone has surpassed them and they have little chance of winning some big single title again. They don't want to be second best.

Wang Hao still created problems for ML but he couldn't beat ZJK. So, after a few times trying and always lost to ZJK in the final, he kind of lost the drive. And with ML improving all the time, he might think his chance was over.

FZD is still behind ML in my opinion, but he's close, when he and/or someone else catches and surpasses ML, ML will retire. But he'll still be the player to beat in next 2-3 years. I don't see anyone close to him besides FZD at the moment but 2-3 years is a long time in table tennis, anything can happen.



FZD is better at 21 than ML was at 21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2018 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I am of the personal opinion that Wang Hao could have played longer and tortured Ma Long more were he more willing to do some gym work.  Though Ma Long did improve his backhand technique in 2014 and may not have been as susceptible in 2015.  In any case, he has a family and there are FZD and LJK, but I think that generational talents and modern  medicine can help against father time for those willing to try.  If Timo Boll can still beat the pursuing pack of CNT, why can't Ma Long?

He may slow down but I don't think it will be a drop off in level. There really need to be 2 more CNT upcomers as otherwise why should he stop?  FZD is likely already close or better but who else?


I agree with you that Wang Hao could have played longer and Ma Long can keep on playing at high level. But I think the moment they stop is when they realize someone has surpassed them and they have little chance of winning some big single title again. They don't want to be second best.

Wang Hao still created problems for ML but he couldn't beat ZJK. So, after a few times trying and always lost to ZJK in the final, he kind of lost the drive. And with ML improving all the time, he might think his chance was over.

FZD is still behind ML in my opinion, but he's close, when he and/or someone else catches and surpasses ML, ML will retire. But he'll still be the player to beat in next 2-3 years. I don't see anyone close to him besides FZD at the moment but 2-3 years is a long time in table tennis, anything can happen.



I get your logic.but I don't think that being number 1 is all that matters to Ma Long. I think that as long as he is top 3 in CNT or isn't regarded as someone who is a cancer on the National team, he will leave when he wants to. Longevity is something I think he wants to demonstrate as another dimension of his greatness if he can. Wang Liqin would have done it if he could but the lack of a real backhand was simply something he couldn't over come.


Ma Long will be gunning for the historic Double Grand Slam by winning the 2020 Olympics, there's no chance that he retires before then....
There's no reason for Ma Long to retire, he has the most complete game (and I would add one of the best touches which continues to improve with time!) of all the players around. He also happens to have a really relaxed technique and a strong, healthy body with no major injuries (unlike even Timo Boll who's still playing at a high level today!). If anyone can go the distance, it will be Ma Long.
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