Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 2018 Japan Open
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

2018 Japan Open

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 91011
Author
tom View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2018 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I'm not so sure that Harimoto's rise is good for TT. After all, Japan is just another Asian country that's always been strong at table tennis, and table tennis is very popular in Japan already. People like Hugo Calderano would do a lot more in promoting the sport. 

Back on topic though, I also think the plastic ball they use now is killing the spin aspect of the game (which is how the Chinese play). Back in Zjk's prime, when they used the old ball, his bananas were practically instant winners, and nobody could easily counterloop his slow spinny loop off a backspin push (even Ma Long had great difficulty). Nowadays, I see Zjk doing the same moves, but they have no effect lol. I guess it's all about speed now. 
good points but I would like to add, HC won't help with TT in NA (maybe nothing will) , he is from SA.  I watched the first 3 games of the ZJK / HT match, HT did have difficulties with some of ZJK's backhand loop, but I guess not enough but that is the situation we have.



Is Calderano helped a lot to TT in Brazil?


can't say, but someone said he is recognized in the streets on this forum. he could be more so if he wins some major tournament
BarwellFleet,Renanos Hold (B/FH)
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2018 at 4:36pm
No one mentioned it yet Shocked 
HARIMOTO Tomokazu is only the 2nd or 3rd non-ex-cnt player beat at least 3 CNT players to win a tournament.
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2018 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I'm not so sure that Harimoto's rise is good for TT. After all, Japan is just another Asian country that's always been strong at table tennis, and table tennis is very popular in Japan already. People like Hugo Calderano would do a lot more in promoting the sport. 

Back on topic though, I also think the plastic ball they use now is killing the spin aspect of the game (which is how the Chinese play). Back in Zjk's prime, when they used the old ball, his bananas were practically instant winners, and nobody could easily counterloop his slow spinny loop off a backspin push (even Ma Long had great difficulty). Nowadays, I see Zjk doing the same moves, but they have no effect lol. I guess it's all about speed now. 
good points but I would like to add, HC won't help with TT in NA (maybe nothing will) , he is from SA.  I watched the first 3 games of the ZJK / HT match, HT did have difficulties with some of ZJK's backhand loop, but I guess not enough but that is the situation we have.
I see where you're coming from, but one more country investing in to TT is better than only one country. If JNT keeps this up, Korean will put more $ into the development program, trust me on that. With that, few other countries will follow. Popular means nothing for long team growth of the sport. We all need results to show for. 
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13036
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2018 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I'm not so sure that Harimoto's rise is good for TT. After all, Japan is just another Asian country that's always been strong at table tennis, and table tennis is very popular in Japan already. People like Hugo Calderano would do a lot more in promoting the sport. 

Back on topic though, I also think the plastic ball they use now is killing the spin aspect of the game (which is how the Chinese play). Back in Zjk's prime, when they used the old ball, his bananas were practically instant winners, and nobody could easily counterloop his slow spinny loop off a backspin push (even Ma Long had great difficulty). Nowadays, I see Zjk doing the same moves, but they have no effect lol. I guess it's all about speed now. 


Of course it is good. Anything that breaks the overwhelming dominance of one country on an entire sport is good.

As for the ball, Ma Long has and other CNT players have won a ton of tounaments with 40+ balls including with ABS versions.

It's not a good excuse anymore. A better one in ZJK's case is that he was hurt.

Ma Long will be back with a vengeance though. (I am a Ma Long fan too).
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2018 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

You know what would be really funny?  If one of the reasons why Japan wins an Olympic singles gold (men's or women's) was because China's ban on foreigners in their league...   not having much exposure to Mima Ito and Tomakazu Harimoto aside from just video.
that's a really good one Clap
 
what they don't get to play them in other tournaments (other than OG)? 
It is not the same; for instance, Seo Hyowon was kicking CNT butt when she was first come up. After couple seasons at the cttsl, she could not win a game against CNT player. Anyway, there was a rumor about LGL had a working group to study foreign players, and CTTA closed the working group after LGL was let go. 
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
MLfan View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/23/2015
Location: China
Status: Offline
Points: 438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 2:03am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I'm not so sure that Harimoto's rise is good for TT. After all, Japan is just another Asian country that's always been strong at table tennis, and table tennis is very popular in Japan already. People like Hugo Calderano would do a lot more in promoting the sport. 

Back on topic though, I also think the plastic ball they use now is killing the spin aspect of the game (which is how the Chinese play). Back in Zjk's prime, when they used the old ball, his bananas were practically instant winners, and nobody could easily counterloop his slow spinny loop off a backspin push (even Ma Long had great difficulty). Nowadays, I see Zjk doing the same moves, but they have no effect lol. I guess it's all about speed now. 


Of course it is good. Anything that breaks the overwhelming dominance of one country on an entire sport is good.

As for the ball, Ma Long has and other CNT players have won a ton of tounaments with 40+ balls including with ABS versions.

It's not a good excuse anymore. A better one in ZJK's case is that he was hurt.

Ma Long will be back with a vengeance though. (I am a Ma Long fan too).

I can see where you're coming from, and I'm sorry, but I don't think playing with the new ball is an "excuse," really. I'm not trying to defend ZJK or Ma Long for losing to Harimoto or anything (although I am a Ma Long fan), but I do think that ZJK and Ma Long have their stroke mechanics built around the ball that they were used to playing when growing up as a kid. ZJK's game was physically built for the 40mm celluloid balls, and the ball was exceptionally suitable for him bc he could generate so much spin. Once the ball changed to 40+, however, his game doesn't work anymore, bc his stroke mechanics can no longer provide him with that extra spin he used to have to win his matches. This change of ball also exacerbated his injuries, because his body isn't used to the new mechanics required to play with the new ball (i.e. he's using his muscles differently than what he's used to to try and produce the same level of spin that he could before). 

Similarly, Ma Long's game is based on speed, but back when there was more spin on the ball then there is now. The plastic ball (implemented in 2014?) clearly favored Ma Long's style, as a reduction in spin made it easier for him to take the ball off the bounce earlier. But with the ABS ball, spin was even further reduced. The JNT or Harimoto's parents obviously realized this, and got Harimoto to develop an already close-to-the-table game even further. Unfortunately, even if Ma Long had realized the same, it would be a lot harder for him to adjust his strokes. I mean, Ma Long's already 29 or 30, and his strokes have been pretty much set the last 6-7 years, but Harimoto's body is still growing lol. 

Another example of the drastic effects of changing the ball is Kong Linghui's retirement as an athlete. According to the CNT, he would've still been able to play at the top level for another 5 years or so, if it weren't for the ball change. Like ZJK, his body simply couldn't adjust to the new stroke mechanics required to play with the new ball. Xu Xin is yet another example. I don't remember seeing anybody capable of easily counterlooping his super spinny loops before, but now, plenty of people can comfortably do that. 

Anyway, my point is that the constant ball changes affect the very great players more than they do "good" players, especially if they want to maintain their level of play, and seasoned athletes like ZJK are particularly vulnerable to these changes. I'm not saying it's the only factor behind his subpar performance over the last couple years, but it certainly is a very strong reason and not an "excuse."

That aside, I also feel that Ma Long will figure out something next time he meets Harimoto.


Edited by MLfan - 06/11/2018 at 2:04am
Back to Top
piligrim View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/21/2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3699
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 8:00am
anybody has link to game ZJK - LIANG Jingkun?
Choo-Lei
Back to Top
avi3230 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/04/2009
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avi3230 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 8:28am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5aY0OS_mhIv
Viscaria FL 84 gm
DHS H3N C 2.2 40- black FH
Nexy Karis M 2.1mm - red BH
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 7300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I'm not so sure that Harimoto's rise is good for TT. After all, Japan is just another Asian country that's always been strong at table tennis, and table tennis is very popular in Japan already. People like Hugo Calderano would do a lot more in promoting the sport. 

Back on topic though, I also think the plastic ball they use now is killing the spin aspect of the game (which is how the Chinese play). Back in Zjk's prime, when they used the old ball, his bananas were practically instant winners, and nobody could easily counterloop his slow spinny loop off a backspin push (even Ma Long had great difficulty). Nowadays, I see Zjk doing the same moves, but they have no effect lol. I guess it's all about speed now. 


Of course it is good. Anything that breaks the overwhelming dominance of one country on an entire sport is good.

As for the ball, Ma Long has and other CNT players have won a ton of tounaments with 40+ balls including with ABS versions.

It's not a good excuse anymore. A better one in ZJK's case is that he was hurt.

Ma Long will be back with a vengeance though. (I am a Ma Long fan too).

I can see where you're coming from, and I'm sorry, but I don't think playing with the new ball is an "excuse," really. I'm not trying to defend ZJK or Ma Long for losing to Harimoto or anything (although I am a Ma Long fan), but I do think that ZJK and Ma Long have their stroke mechanics built around the ball that they were used to playing when growing up as a kid. ZJK's game was physically built for the 40mm celluloid balls, and the ball was exceptionally suitable for him bc he could generate so much spin. Once the ball changed to 40+, however, his game doesn't work anymore, bc his stroke mechanics can no longer provide him with that extra spin he used to have to win his matches. This change of ball also exacerbated his injuries, because his body isn't used to the new mechanics required to play with the new ball (i.e. he's using his muscles differently than what he's used to to try and produce the same level of spin that he could before). 

Similarly, Ma Long's game is based on speed, but back when there was more spin on the ball then there is now. The plastic ball (implemented in 2014?) clearly favored Ma Long's style, as a reduction in spin made it easier for him to take the ball off the bounce earlier. But with the ABS ball, spin was even further reduced. The JNT or Harimoto's parents obviously realized this, and got Harimoto to develop an already close-to-the-table game even further. Unfortunately, even if Ma Long had realized the same, it would be a lot harder for him to adjust his strokes. I mean, Ma Long's already 29 or 30, and his strokes have been pretty much set the last 6-7 years, but Harimoto's body is still growing lol. 

Another example of the drastic effects of changing the ball is Kong Linghui's retirement as an athlete. According to the CNT, he would've still been able to play at the top level for another 5 years or so, if it weren't for the ball change. Like ZJK, his body simply couldn't adjust to the new stroke mechanics required to play with the new ball. Xu Xin is yet another example. I don't remember seeing anybody capable of easily counterlooping his super spinny loops before, but now, plenty of people can comfortably do that. 

Anyway, my point is that the constant ball changes affect the very great players more than they do "good" players, especially if they want to maintain their level of play, and seasoned athletes like ZJK are particularly vulnerable to these changes. I'm not saying it's the only factor behind his subpar performance over the last couple years, but it certainly is a very strong reason and not an "excuse."

That aside, I also feel that Ma Long will figure out something next time he meets Harimoto.




ma long only needs to be in better shape more FH better attitude
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13036
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 4:27pm
I dtrongly disavree with contention that ABS balls reduced spin more. Ivthink they actually return us to something a bit closer to celluloid.
Back to Top
seguso View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/24/2010
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1524
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I can see where you're coming from, and I'm sorry, but I don't think playing with the new ball is an "excuse," really. I'm not trying to defend ZJK or Ma Long for losing to Harimoto or anything (although I am a Ma Long fan), but I do think that ZJK and Ma Long have their stroke mechanics built around the ball that they were used to playing when growing up as a kid. ZJK's game was physically built for the 40mm celluloid balls, and the ball was exceptionally suitable for him bc he could generate so much spin. Once the ball changed to 40+, however, his game doesn't work anymore, bc his stroke mechanics can no longer provide him with that extra spin he used to have to win his matches. This change of ball also exacerbated his injuries, because his body isn't used to the new mechanics required to play with the new ball (i.e. he's using his muscles differently than what he's used to to try and produce the same level of spin that he could before). 

Similarly, Ma Long's game is based on speed, but back when there was more spin on the ball then there is now. The plastic ball (implemented in 2014?) clearly favored Ma Long's style, as a reduction in spin made it easier for him to take the ball off the bounce earlier. But with the ABS ball, spin was even further reduced.


I completely agree for ZJK. But I think Abs favors Ma long's style. Ma long always had a drive bh, so that wasn't hurt. And he does not bh flip, so he adjusted easily. (Abs favors short push over flip, unlike what many people believe. Look at how many flips ZJK missed.)

I believe FZD is the real loser with Abs ball. He has the most spinny game, and the most stroke quality. But he won't have time to charge his poweful strokes. He won't make it against harimoto. Lin Gaoyuan has many more chances to keep beating Harimoto than FZD has. It's not by chance that he started losing to Ma Long again.


Edited by seguso - 06/11/2018 at 5:31pm
dhs pg12- el-p max fh - fx-p bh (jun 2018) - 2015 video
Back to Top
piligrim View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/21/2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3699
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by avi3230 avi3230 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5aY0OS_mhIv


thank you very much
Choo-Lei
Back to Top
jfolsen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 03/15/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 541
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2018 at 9:48am
Adapt or fade away. It's the nature of sports. Keep this up and you will be talking nostalgically about hard bat.

Fun fact: the two color rule was predicted to destroy Seemiller grip players. Eric Boggan actually started playing with two colors early to get used to the new rules and wound up with his highest world ranking AFTER the rule went into effect.
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2018 at 1:48pm
Ladies and gentlemen. The word is out. ML was afraid of Harimoto. He is still the ML that MLin assessed in 2010, who likes to overthink.

Quote "我自己打得太差了.下场后回想,是准备得不够好,才造成在赛场上一系列的连锁反应."

"一开始我把他想得太强,但一到比赛里感觉不是想象中的样子,这时候自己有点泻了劲儿,人没有一直绷着,也没能调整到自己的节奏上.拼没拼起来,守又确实守不住,在第二局我5:1领先没有赢下来以后人就开始毛躁了.我觉得自己主要输在前面,后来虽然追上来两局,第六局已经控制不住了."

"输球会影响心情,但现在已经不止是影响我自己,觉得自己输球影响的方方面面很多.面对这样一位热门对手,自己没有准备到位,很自责."

"没有打出精神状态,技术发挥也犯了不该犯的错误.我对待比赛分析和预判一般能比较准确,但这场比赛从预判上就出现了误差,赛前想的技战术到赛场上都没怎么用,不知道是想复杂了还是想简单了,整个节奏都没对上."

"中国队员每一次输球都是一个警钟,会更加细致地总结,尤其输给主要对手以后,能总结的东西就更多了."

"I played so badly. When I thought back on it, it was my preparation that wasn't good enough. It caused a series of chain reactions on the court."

"In the beginning, I pictured him as too superior. However, once into the match, when it didn't turn out as I thought, I lost my momentum. I didn't keep it tight and I couldn't adjust it to my own rhythm. I couldn't get my offense started, yet I couldn't keep him at bay on defense, either. In the 2nd game, when I got a 5:1 lead and I didn't take it, I was irritated. I feel that I lost mostly in the beginning. Even though I closed the gap with 2 games, the 6th game was already out of my hands."

"The loss does have an effect on the mood, but now it is beyond just me. I feel that there are many aspects involved after my loss. In the face of such a popular opponent, I didn't prepare well. I feel very guilty of myself."

"I didn't play to my mental standard and I made costly mistakes in the technical department. I'm generally quite accurate in dealing with game analysis and pre-match assessment. But in this match, there is an error in assessment. I didn't put my game plan to work on the court. I don't know whether it's due to complicating things or making it too simple. The entire pace was off."

"Every time the CNT loses is an alarm, and it will be more meticulously summed up. After losing to a major opponent, more things can be summed up."

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4255914728934914?


https://bbs.hupu.com/17627255-3893.html#1116048


Edited by zeio - 06/28/2018 at 1:50pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
VladCeller View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 12/09/2015
Location: die Evil Empire
Status: Offline
Points: 812
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2018 at 12:16pm

HARIMOTO Tomokazu  8 10 13034 July 2018


Back to Top
piligrim View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/21/2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3699
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2018 at 2:51pm
Kanak 64
Choo-Lei
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 91011
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer