|
|
ML-FZD warming up/training |
Post Reply |
Author | ||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 06/12/2018 at 1:11am |
|||
Thanks again Larry for taking the time and courtesy to let us know you may respond, time permitting, in the not so distant future.
I read your blog everyday, so I'll catch it if you address the issue.
|
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Unfortunately, I'm going out of town Thursday morning for 3.5 weeks and have way too many things on my todo list before I leave. Maybe after I return I'll watch videos of Fan and Ma Long together and blog about the differences and why. -Larry Hodges
|
||||
Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer
Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Thanks for responding Larry!
I think part of the issue on this thread is the supposed differences between ML's and FZD's swings. For example Blahness writes: "I personally think FZD's stroke is a more advanced stroke than Ma Long's, he utilises the power of arm pronation and supination (if you read up on it it's one of the most explosive power sources and is pretty much fundamental in badminton to increase power) much better. He uses them to close the racket angle aggressively, which is why he gets huge amounts of power even in cramped positions. " "It's not just FZD, but if you look at the younger women's generation like Zhu Yuling and Wang Manyu, they also have this "newer" looking stroke. " Mikd wrote: "I feel like if he had his wrist angled like how he does right before he swings forward (FH rubber facing the opponent more) during the backswing, the racket would hit his leg. Because his racket head is facing the opponent during his backswing, it can past very close to his leg and not hit it. "I don't know why they do it, just something I notice most of them do. "EDIT: Also, having the racket head pointing forward, you'll be fighting less against air resistance, right? Since you'll be decreasing the surface area the air is contacting in the direction of movement. Not sure if that's a big deal, but maybe it is." To me it merely looks like FZD is delaying supination of forearm and wrist. Do you have any comments about this?
|
||||
larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I thought I did explain much of it. For example, above someone commented on how many top Chinese players backswing with their racket very close to their body. I explained that, "Arm is close to body. This allows more quickness in the backswing. If you hold it out, it slows you down." Here's the direct link to the Ma Long Forehand Loop posting. -Larry Hodges
Edited by larrytt - 06/12/2018 at 12:30am |
||||
Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer
Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
True. He explains the purpose of the movements, but not why. I'd love to hear somebody (who is qualified) expound on the advantages and disadvantages of the different styles. Maybe if somebody asked LH he could take a shot at it.
|
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
good video but LH didn't really explain why the CNT / ML backswing is the way it is.
|
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
|
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Except it was in Chinese... here is another video of ML's swing: https://www.facebook.com/ITTFWorld/videos/2224311570932167/ And a detailed analysis, in English, from Larry Hodges: http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/blog/3
|
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
You must be joking....FZD has an underdeveloped FH? |
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
the above video shows his backswing from inside and outside angles. having seen it from the outside I could say this the way a lot the CNT do their backswing . This video www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDewVsryESU explains why ML backswings like that.
Edited by tom - 06/08/2018 at 6:04pm |
||||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Good catch Fatt. I don't think it adds any thing to the swing though, maybe his FH is still under developed like Harimoto .
Here is another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5s1KhIFww. From this angle, looks like he is trying to keep the arm close to the body on the back swing, and causes the twist at the end of the swing.
|
||||
APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Seriously, you think that only Chinese players do that ? I do it myself !
|
||||
The Older I get, The better I was.
|
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I personally think FZD's stroke is a more advanced stroke than Ma Long's, he utilises the power of arm pronation and supination (if you read up on it it's one of the most explosive power sources and is pretty much fundamental in badminton to increase power) much better. He uses them to close the racket angle aggressively, which is why he gets huge amounts of power even in cramped positions. It's not just FZD, but if you look at the younger women's generation like Zhu Yuling and Wang Manyu, they also have this "newer" looking stroke. Ma Long's stroke has a much more "fixed" racket angle and is from an older school of technique imo. Still serves his purposes well though, as most power comes from the waist and legs anyway...
|
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It's similar to other muscles too, you have to exert them just at the right moment, not too early and not too late! If your wrist is going into extension much earlier, you stiffen up your forearms and that reduces the explosiveness of the wrist movement in your stroke. It's much better to let it drop and "hang", and explode into the ball only at the very last moment.
|
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
Makelele
Super Member Joined: 11/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 416 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Nice. How is that? |
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Is there any difference between the way ML and FZD are rotating their shoulders?
|
||||
Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Good catch by Fatt. I always noted the similar back-swing as done by players with quick strokes. However, I never noticed that little 'loosener' just before the strike. The fact that you mentioned the added physical benefit for the shoulder is something that should added to the coaching manuals. I wonder if Baal will see this and comment. |
||||
Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
They have extremely little arm backswing in general which is why it stays close to their thighs. The backswing is all generated by their core and legs. This both increases power, control and reduces the recovery time. The little wrist movement at the end you mentioned is very useful because it forces your wrist to be relaxed before winding up for the concentrated release of power.
|
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I see a lot of Chinese players (non-pro's, but still highly skilled) do that, even when they are not counter looping. For example when trying to crush a long, not too fast serve, but they are close to the table, or attacking blocked shots.
Edited by Ieyasu - 06/07/2018 at 11:39pm |
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I saw that too, but to my poor eyes it looks like he is just bringing the racket back and delaying pronation of the forearm until he starts the forward swing. Here's another FZD video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5s1KhIFww About 27 seconds into it you can view his forehand from a different angle from the video above.
|
||||
mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Thanks for the video, fatt. It's always nice watching the top players practice. Their technique is mesmerizing! I feel like if he had his wrist angled like how he does right before he swings forward (FH rubber facing the opponent more) during the backswing, the racket would hit his leg. Because his racket head is facing the opponent during his backswing, it can past very close to his leg and not hit it. I don't know why they do it, just something I notice most of them do. EDIT: Also, having the racket head pointing forward, you'll be fighting less against air resistance, right? Since you'll be decreasing the surface area the air is contacting in the direction of movement. Not sure if that's a big deal, but maybe it is.
Edited by mickd - 06/07/2018 at 11:20pm |
||||
PythonMonty
Member Joined: 01/22/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 82 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
There's some added value. Internally rotating the shoulder like that decreases rotator cuff resistance and increases range of motion on the backswing.
|
||||
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |