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Harimoto's BH and FH technique

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    Posted: 06/10/2018 at 11:27pm
Not sure if anyone noticed but he doesn't seem to do some crazy inward wrist cocking when he does his BH. His stroke almost seems like he just "counterhits" the ball, but the ball still has some crazy spin and speed when it reaches his opponent. How does he do this?!

The other thing I noticed about his FH which is very different to many other players. He practically has no arm backswing at all (you can see that the position of his arm relative to his waist is very similar at all times with less of the violent wristy whip action we see in other players like Fan Zhendong/Timo Boll, the stroke is almost entirely driven by waist rotation, and he keeps his elbow close to the body during the backswing (reminds me of ice skaters doing their fancy body rotations). He does turn his waist a lot more than many other players. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 12:39am
Nah his arm goes back on FH at least for loop to loop. It's different I'll give u that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 12:40am
Sorry to tell u I checked the whole vid, ur oppositely wrong, he brings his wrist and arm back way more than FZD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 3:31am
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Sorry to tell u I checked the whole vid, ur oppositely wrong, he brings his wrist and arm back way more than FZD


FZD happens to have one of the most compact and efficient strokes imo...not really comparing to him at the moment.

Hmm the slowmos would indeed show that.... There's something about the timing that seemed very unique though, can't really put a finger to it! It's almost as if his arm is perfectly in sync with the large waist rotation, and there's not a lot of that "delayed whip like mechanics" that I see in many of the CNT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Makelele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Not sure if anyone noticed but he doesn't seem to do some crazy inward wrist cocking when he does his BH. His stroke almost seems like he just "counterhits" the ball, but the ball still has some crazy spin and speed when it reaches his opponent. How does he do this?!


You read my mind. I asked myself that every time I watch Harimoto's marches [edit: matches]. He seems to "counterhit" the ball with his backhand, like making a flat stroke, but instead the ball goes with lots of spin. May be the answer is that the ball has already crazy spin from his opponent and what he do is just taking advantage of that. A sort of mini counter loop off the bounce. If the shot from the opponent came flatter, I guess it would be more difficult for him to give that dangerous spin to the ball with his backhand stroke. The spin from his rival is food for him.
My two cents.

Edited by Makelele - 06/11/2018 at 8:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Not sure if anyone noticed but he doesn't seem to do some crazy inward wrist cocking when he does his BH. His stroke almost seems like he just "counterhits" the ball, but the ball still has some crazy spin and speed when it reaches his opponent. How does he do this?!

The other thing I noticed about his FH which is very different to many other players. He practically has no arm backswing at all (you can see that the position of his arm relative to his waist is very similar at all times with less of the violent wristy whip action we see in other players like Fan Zhendong/Timo Boll, the stroke is almost entirely driven by waist rotation, and he keeps his elbow close to the body during the backswing (reminds me of ice skaters doing their fancy body rotations). He does turn his waist a lot more than many other players. 




His technique in the video at the time above is markedly inferior to what he does now. Too much shoulder and too weak a body and hip movement.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Makelele Makelele wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Not sure if anyone noticed but he doesn't seem to do some crazy inward wrist cocking when he does his BH. His stroke almost seems like he just "counterhits" the ball, but the ball still has some crazy spin and speed when it reaches his opponent. How does he do this?!


You read my mind. I asked myself that every time I watch Harimoto's marches. He seems to "counterhit" the ball with his backhand, like making a flat stroke, but instead the ball goes with lots of spin. May be the answer is that the ball has already crazy spin from his opponent and what he do is just taking advantage of that. A sort of mini counter loop off the bounce. If the shot from the opponent came flatter, I guess it would be more difficult for him to give that dangerous spin to the ball with his backhand stroke. The spin from his rival is food for him.
My two cents.
very nice insight! I see what you mean: sometimes a high arc fast loop can be flat hit covering the ball (HT did that 3 times with the fh v/ zjk in the japan open) and we can do that even in the sub usatt 1800 area, nothing new; but if we push the idea, it is possible to do it v. all topspin balls that still have to be covered and stricken with more topsheet/sponge (no wood necessary) in a very tangential stroke; that way the elasticity and spring back from the topsheet/sponge is taking full advantage of the incoming speed and spin. True, the stroke fails with less spin and in that case the paddle need to open more at contact. 
It can't be called a flat hit though since it's a tangential stroke, it just looks like it. It's not a topspin either since the intention is not to apply spin but to send back a fast ball while controlling the incoming spin, it needs a new name. The flick counter maybe? "Hey! did you see that crazy FC?"Confused
So here an idea to ponder: the "flat hit" v. heavy topspin can be applied all the way to the extreme off the bounce hyper active blocks. We know that but HT is the 1st doing it systematically; not as a virtuoso doing it as a trick sometimes but more like his everyday bread and butter. He brings that stroke on the radar the same way ZJK brought the systematic banana in 2010 that pros cannot afford not to master today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Not sure if anyone noticed but he doesn't seem to do some crazy inward wrist cocking when he does his BH. His stroke almost seems like he just "counterhits" the ball, but the ball still has some crazy spin and speed when it reaches his opponent. How does he do this?!

The other thing I noticed about his FH which is very different to many other players. He practically has no arm backswing at all (you can see that the position of his arm relative to his waist is very similar at all times with less of the violent wristy whip action we see in other players like Fan Zhendong/Timo Boll, the stroke is almost entirely driven by waist rotation, and he keeps his elbow close to the body during the backswing (reminds me of ice skaters doing their fancy body rotations). He does turn his waist a lot more than many other players. 




His technique in the video at the time above is markedly inferior to what he does now. Too much shoulder and too weak a body and hip movement.

I agree, something changed within the last few months or so... I think he dramatically reduced the arm backswing and increased the waist rotation component even further! Would be really useful to get a recent training video though...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMan4911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 8:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 8:55pm
What seems constant is that his arm seems to always present a 90 deg angle, I never see a straight arm back swing for example. Control borrowed from potentially higher arm speed? I sense the reason is due to his position closer to the table: no time for full arm fh loop, then when he is pushed further back, the habit is there. He compensates with stronger legs/hips/torso work and the overall result makes sense (insert our favorite ice skater analogy here).
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