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Fabian1890 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 1:48am
Wow where did you get that photo? NexCell is the new unreleased ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 2:36am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Wow where did you get that photo? NexCell is the new unreleased ball.
I'm testing it.  But I only have the one ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 2:49am
So what does it play like? What’s the main difference to NP40+ and DHS D 40+?
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 2:54am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

So what does it play like? What’s the main difference to NP40+ and DHS D 40+?
Thanks
I was told to expect it to bounce slightly higher, but I haven't noticed that in actual play.

Most of my club mates use Nittaku balls (Premiums for serious matches, J-Top and similar training balls for practice).  I would see the Nexcell plays very similar to those.

I also have some D40+ balls which I like and use for practice. My club mates won't use them for match play, mostly out of bias in my opinion.

The interesting thing is that while a few people really like the orange color, most people seem indifferent.  Having got used to white (in the old days, no one would willingly play with white), now they just don't care that much about color.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 9:30am
Is the spin the same or more? Is the ball smooth or does it stop on the table a lot because of the friction?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 1:22pm
I'm still evaluating it. I'll post when I have something more definitive to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 2:12pm
BIG MAC VS. NITTAKU BALLS ...

https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-big-mac-price-around-the-world-2018-5

We have Big Mac beef burger for 2,60 USD hear in my home town.
Nittaku Preemium balls 3.20 USD.   insane price, indeed.

I delighted eating all the MacDons(C) foods and drink Russian sour milk called "Kefir" ... We Russian habituals, not so wealthy as Americans.. We always play with china-made balls, from Aliexpress mostly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2018 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

BIG MAC VS. NITTAKU BALLS ...

https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-big-mac-price-around-the-world-2018-5

We have Big Mac beef burger for 2,60 USD hear in my home town.
Nittaku Preemium balls 3.20 USD.   insane price, indeed.

I delighted eating all the MacDons(C) foods and drink Russian sour milk called "Kefir" ... We Russian habituals, not so wealthy as Americans.. We always play with china-made balls, from Aliexpress mostly.



Really insightful input as usual, Igor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 1:09am
Come on, the least you could do is upload a nicer picture  Clap
I received the Sample Nexcel ball 2 weeks ago. And for sure, i can tell you that it does not play anything like Nittaku SHA/Premium. 
It does play a little like the old Celluloid balls but not as hard. 
The sound of the ball is decent, does not sound too plastic like SHA or too hard like Premium. Clubmates commented that it is nice but they are not used to seeing orange ball after playing white for so long.
Speed is decent, however, i feel spin is not too heavy. On hitting, the ball seems to be lighter than D40+. I keep getting the impression that the ball is at 40mm instead of 40+mm, maybe when the official ones get released, they are more consistent or even better. 





Edited by proSpin - 07/27/2018 at 1:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:31am
Originally posted by proSpin proSpin wrote:

Come on, the least you could do is upload a nicer picture  Clap
I received the Sample Nexcel ball 2 weeks ago. And for sure, i can tell you that it does not play anything like Nittaku SHA/Premium. 
It does play a little like the old Celluloid balls but not as hard. 
The sound of the ball is decent, does not sound too plastic like SHA or too hard like Premium. Clubmates commented that it is nice but they are not used to seeing orange ball after playing white for so long.
Speed is decent, however, i feel spin is not too heavy. On hitting, the ball seems to be lighter than D40+. I keep getting the impression that the ball is at 40mm instead of 40+mm, maybe when the official ones get released, they are more consistent or even better. 
You do have the better picture.  Truthfully, my pic was made as quick as possible.

My feelings about the Nexcel are different from yours.  First, you lumped the SHA and Premium balls together.  I assume you didn't mean those two played similar at all, since they are very different.

Regarding the Nexcel and the Premium (I wouldn't bother to even mention the SHA), I think they are very close. Most of our players found the Nexcel very close to the Premium.  If I had the Nexcel in white, I could probably swap balls and most wouldn't notice the difference (given that there is a fair amount of variance among plastic 40+ balls in general).

I did have an interesting experience regarding spin.  I was playing a long time club mate.  When playing this fellow, it's important to vary spin a lot (for me, this means switching between slow loops and loop drives).  With the Nexcel ball, I couldn't get enough spin to make effective slow loops.  The result was that I struggled to win.  Then it gets interesting: after nine tough games (me 6-3), we played one more match a white Premium 40+ ball.  The difference was phenomenal -- 3-0 at 3, 3, 4.

I can't feel that spin difference when practicing and doing drills.  But in game play, I really felt the Premiums delivered more spin than the Nexcel.  To me, this is a big deal.  I played mostly heavy top spin with the celluloid balls and the change over to plastic really hurt my game due to the decrease in spin.  So in playing with 40+ balls, I go for whichever generates the best spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:41am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by proSpin proSpin wrote:

Come on, the least you could do is upload a nicer picture  Clap
I received the Sample Nexcel ball 2 weeks ago. And for sure, i can tell you that it does not play anything like Nittaku SHA/Premium. 
It does play a little like the old Celluloid balls but not as hard. 
The sound of the ball is decent, does not sound too plastic like SHA or too hard like Premium. Clubmates commented that it is nice but they are not used to seeing orange ball after playing white for so long.
Speed is decent, however, i feel spin is not too heavy. On hitting, the ball seems to be lighter than D40+. I keep getting the impression that the ball is at 40mm instead of 40+mm, maybe when the official ones get released, they are more consistent or even better. 
You do have the better picture.  Truthfully, my pic was made as quick as possible.

My feelings about the Nexcel are different from yours.  First, you lumped the SHA and Premium balls together.  I assume you didn't mean those two played similar at all, since they are very different.

Regarding the Nexcel and the Premium (I wouldn't bother to even mention the SHA), I think they are very close. Most of our players found the Nexcel very close to the Premium.  If I had the Nexcel in white, I could probably swap balls and most wouldn't notice the difference (given that there is a fair amount of variance among plastic 40+ balls in general).

I did have an interesting experience regarding spin.  I was playing a long time club mate.  When playing this fellow, it's important to vary spin a lot (for me, this means switching between slow loops and loop drives).  With the Nexcel ball, I couldn't get enough spin to make effective slow loops.  The result was that I struggled to win.  Then it gets interesting: after nine tough games (me 6-3), we played one more match a white Premium 40+ ball.  The difference was phenomenal -- 3-0 at 3, 3, 4.

I can't feel that spin difference when practicing and doing drills.  But in game play, I really felt the Premiums delivered more spin than the Nexcel.  To me, this is a big deal.  I played mostly heavy top spin with the celluloid balls and the change over to plastic really hurt my game due to the decrease in spin.  So in playing with 40+ balls, I go for whichever generates the best spin.




Members in my club hated to play with Nittaku premium, so they know it is nothing like premium.
Not even close to premium in my opinion. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:42am


Nittaku NEXCELL bogus. You can surely tell a bogus ball through the blurriness of the stamp.   Yes, you can get this bogus product from a China marketplace, priced at 2.50 USD.   Chinese can make much money by selling those fake NEXCELL.

Be happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:45am
My comparison with SHA and Premium were due to the same Brand. Not because of the feeling.
It would be logica to make comparisons with balls from the same brand to notice any significant changes in feeling.
Next is comparison with popular TT balls.
The sound and pitch of Premium nittaku 40+ is so different, also feeling!
Very different experience for us indeed. Because if I were to compare, I wouldn’t compare it to Nittaku Premium 40+ because it was heaven and earth differences.

Hardness: Nittaku Premium >> Nittaku Nexcel
Spin: Nittaku Nexcel >> Nittaku Premium

Period.


Edited by proSpin - 07/27/2018 at 2:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:47am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:



Nittaku NEXCELL bogus. You can surely tell a bogus ball through the blurriness of the stamp.   Yes, you can get this bogus product from a China marketplace, priced at 2.50 USD.   Chinese can make much money by selling those fake NEXCELL.

Be happy.
I know my ball isn't fake, because it came direct from Nittaku.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:49am
Originally posted by proSpin proSpin wrote:

 

Members in my club hated to play with Nittaku premium, so they know it is nothing like premium.
Not even close to premium in my opinion. lol
This is very interesting.  Virtually everyone in my part of the USA, from 1400-2600, prefers the Nittaku Premium over all other balls.

Personally, I try to play with many different balls so I'm not thrown off if a tournament requires something weird (like the recent World Veterans).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 2:52am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by proSpin proSpin wrote:

 

Members in my club hated to play with Nittaku premium, so they know it is nothing like premium.
Not even close to premium in my opinion. lol

This is very interesting.  Virtually everyone in my part of the USA, from 1400-2600, prefers the Nittaku Premium over all other balls.

Personally, I try to play with many different balls so I'm not thrown off if a tournament requires something weird (like the recent World Veterans).


Unfortunately not in China where most players prefer spin.
Guess players who can’t generate or receive spin love Premium because it’s easy to hit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 3:16am
Originally posted by proSpin proSpin wrote:

 

Unfortunately not in China where most players prefer spin.
Guess players who can’t generate or receive spin love Premium because it’s easy to hit.
Another place where our experiences differ.  I have many different Chinese 3 star balls in myc collection that I practice with regularly.  The best among these is probably the DHS D40+, but none of them spin as well as the Nittaku Premium, in my experience.

If I thought that some other ball worked better for spin, that would become my new favorite.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 3:28am
Lol. Nittaku premium = spin.
Ok can. I can roughly estimate the difference between our level.
On a separate note, It’s easy to mistake power for spin.
Especially when the ball is so heavy and hard, amateurs think it’s spin they feel.

Edited by proSpin - 07/27/2018 at 3:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2018 at 3:30am
Anyways, we let the public be the judge of that when the ball officially releases into the market shall we.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2018 at 3:13am
Originally posted by proSpin proSpin wrote:

Lol. Nittaku premium = spin.
Ok can. I can roughly estimate the difference between our level.
On a separate note, It’s easy to mistake power for spin.
Especially when the ball is so heavy and hard, amateurs think it’s spin they feel.

<and from earlier post>
Unfortunately not in China where most players prefer spin. 
Guess players who can’t generate or receive spin love Premium because it’s easy to hit 

I wanted to respond to these, but I also wanted to wait until I had more data.

First, most people I know at all levels haven't reported any significant difference in hardness or feel of Nexcel compared to Premium. That includes amateur and professional.

Second, I asked a strong professional Chinese coach about the preferred ball for top level play. His answer was Nittaku Premium in no uncertain terms.

Third, further tests do show that while the Premium generates good spin, the Nexcel ball generates less.

Fourth, there may be a question about durability. I say this because my first test ball broke in less than a week of light use.  Fortunately, I got another test ball to replace it.

It seems that some people really do like playing with an orange ball more because they can see it better.  However, there are more people who seem to prefer the Premium (even in white) because they feel it plays better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opinari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2018 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:



Nittaku NEXCELL bogus. You can surely tell a bogus ball through the blurriness of the stamp.   Yes, you can get this bogus product from a China marketplace, priced at 2.50 USD.   Chinese can make much money by selling those fake NEXCELL.

Be happy.


That's odd, the stamp for the red stars is also a bit off - in all other Nittaku balls, it's correctly aligned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2018 at 12:48am
Originally posted by opinari opinari wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:



Nittaku NEXCELL bogus. You can surely tell a bogus ball through the blurriness of the stamp.   Yes, you can get this bogus product from a China marketplace, priced at 2.50 USD.   Chinese can make much money by selling those fake NEXCELL.

Be happy.


That's odd, the stamp for the red stars is also a bit off - in all other Nittaku balls, it's correctly aligned.

It's a sample ball for testing, not shipping yet.  They may be stamping them on a small hand system instead of on the factory floor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 1:56am
Two color balls used in Euro-Asia Matches.  I assume they were DHS.  Last year two color balls also
used in some (but not all) Chinese Super League matches.  Not personally used them but I think it would be easy to tell no spin and spin serves.   DHS for sale don't have ITTF star ratings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 2:22am
You can’t really see the spin better than with white balls. When it spins fast you can’t separate the different colors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 3:09am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

You can’t really see the spin better than with white balls. When it spins fast you can’t separate the different colors.
I just some time watching several of the videos. Admittedly, this isn't the same as playing a match with bi-colored balls, but it does give a sense of what you might be able to see. In the videos, I could tell very spiny balls from those will little spin.  And with most balls I got a good indicator of spin direction.

I don't think these balls would suddenly change how we see balls, but they would improve estimating spin to some extent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 1:50pm
I ordered some DHS D40+ 3* orange balls from aliexpress and got them last week.

QC was poor. 2 of the first 3 balls out of the box sounded bad, like they were cracked. I put a flashlight up to them in the dark and they didn't have any visible cracks.

The third ball played ok. The orange ball didn't play exactly like the white D40+. It seemed to float a little more.

I did a quick and dirty unscientific drop test between a handful of new D40+ orange/white balls. The orange balls consistently bounced slightly higher. Not a big difference like D40+ vs XSF seamless, but definitely a slightly higher bounce.

The orange D40+ is a good option for people who play in places with bad visibility with a warning about DHS quality control.

If other brands resell this ball under their own name and demand better QC from DHS, then that could be a better option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2018 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

But what if you play where the walls are white? There are some other practicalities. Many seniors have told me they only can see orange.

This discussion comes up regularly here too.  Some players do moan about orange balls, but the more important issue is keeping as many venues viable as possible.  They just have to get on with it for the greater good.

"the greater good"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2018 at 6:08am
Originally posted by mog1111 mog1111 wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

But what if you play where the walls are white? There are some other practicalities. Many seniors have told me they only can see orange.

This discussion comes up regularly here too.  Some players do moan about orange balls, but the more important issue is keeping as many venues viable as possible.  They just have to get on with it for the greater good.

"the greater good"


Yes.  As a whole, the potential loss of a venue is more damaging to the sport in an area than one or two players who moan during meetings and (in general) carry on playing anyway.  Personally, I'd rather lose a few players than a whole venue, if it came to it, but that's just me.

We all have to make concessions for the greater good at times.  For example, I'd rather our league played with one type of 40+ ball (regardless of which type that ball is) to avoid having to switch between types at different venues, and I do suggest that in meetings (trying to avoid moaning, hopefully).  But I can't get the votes to get a rule change for that, so I take it on the chin and carry on even though it annoys the hell out of me.  My special snowflake issues aren't massively important to everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2018 at 9:06am
ORANGE BALLS, EASY TO WATCH FOR AND PLAY WITH.

World's Champs 1993 were played with Nittaku balls in orange. You hardly could tell the difference in coloration on TV screen. Still, the orange is admittedly very good to trace with an eye in play. Much better as against the balls in white.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2018 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

I ordered some DHS D40+ 3* orange balls from aliexpress and got them last week.

QC was poor. 2 of the first 3 balls out of the box sounded bad, like they were cracked. I put a flashlight up to them in the dark and they didn't have any visible cracks.

The third ball played ok. The orange ball didn't play exactly like the white D40+. It seemed to float a little more.

I did a quick and dirty unscientific drop test between a handful of new D40+ orange/white balls. The orange balls consistently bounced slightly higher. Not a big difference like D40+ vs XSF seamless, but definitely a slightly higher bounce.

The orange D40+ is a good option for people who play in places with bad visibility with a warning about DHS quality control.

If other brands resell this ball under their own name and demand better QC from DHS, then that could be a better option.

Have been training with 3 star DHS40+ balls in orange, bi-color, and white for a month.  Clubs members got used to them shortly they play very similar.  Even Nittaku premium snobs.  Haven't come across any bad balls. Weighed a bunch of them on a high precision scale accurate to .01 gram.
DHS40+ white  2.75,2.74,2.70,2.75,2.71 grams
DHS40+ orange  2.70,2.72,2.71,2.71,2.73,2.72 grams
DHS40+ Bi-Color  2.72,2.68,2.73,2.76 grams
Had 1 DHS40+ (from ProTour with paddle logo)  2.77grams
in comparison
Nittaku 40+ 3 star made in Japan  2.67,2.68,2.69,2.70,2.72
Nittaku is a better ball but it is 4-6x more expensive.
The DHS orange ball is a very dull orange compared to previous celluloid balls.  Still a good option in places with white walls and daylight glare.  All balls come in 10 packs, .60 each from several Aliexpress sellers with free shipping.  White and orange balls are 3 star ittf approved. Bi-color balls have no star
rating with CTTA aproved.


Edited by pdotec - 10/07/2018 at 9:22pm
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