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Heavy weight training and TT coexist?

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    Posted: 06/13/2018 at 4:55pm
You don't see high level players with massive upper bodies. Can upper body strength training coexist with TT training? Over 25 years ago, I gave up lifting heavy weights, upper body training in particular, because I didn't want it to ruin my touch. I realized early this year that since the plastic ball already ruined my touch, I should return and enjoy heavy lifting. I'll soon compete in the WVC and Nationals. Next year I hope to compete in both the USATT Nationals and an age class (masters 2) powerlifting meet. Here's some video from my recent training.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2018 at 5:32pm
Upper body doesn't do much for TT. Your legs however, that's a different story. Many watch vid of pro plays and they don't realize how robust their legs are. I went to icc butterfly open 2018. I saw eugene wang. In youtube he looks like a chubby guy. In real person tho, his quads are thicker than my waist S=. 



Edited by hunkeelin - 06/13/2018 at 5:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2018 at 9:05pm
not significantly tbh

I'm very in shape and slender and beat this 130kg 6'2 bodybuilding freak with ease and he's played longer than me. He has a weak stroke due to being too heavy to turn and cannot pivot at all, makes it easy.

In other words, the hypothesised benefits have been nullified and more than physical limits from being more muscular


Edited by SmackDAT - 06/13/2018 at 9:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2018 at 12:19am
You'd have to be doing some serious weight lifting for many years before it had any real impact on your ability to play, negatively that is. 

That said, does heavy weight lifting really help in table tennis? Probably not a whole lot. But it certainly won't hurt your game either! 

And to smackdat about the 130kg player, it really depends on how well they utilize their muscle mass. You can be muscular without being athletic. Being OVERLY muscular doesn't help in athletic pursuits, but again... it would take YEARS with extremely dedicated effort to ever reach such a state. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2018 at 12:47am
I lift free weights and work on machines at our local 24 hr fitness club at least 3 days a week.   It also has a wonderful floor to ceiling mirror area with wood flooring providing an excellent platform for doing shadow workouts. At 72 I need the additional workouts to maintain my strength so I am not interested in adding muscle by lifting bigger and bigger weight or keeping up with any of my younger club members. Frankly its a key factor in being in conditioning to compete at the TT club on a regular basis and if for some reason sickness, vacation I miss a week or more it shows up quickly when I return and try to lift at the weight level I was doing before I left.
My next add to the workout will be a gradual build on jumping rope as a warm up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2018 at 2:25am
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

.........My next add to the workout will be a gradual build on jumping rope as a warm up.


YesThumbs Up. This is one area (plus ladder workouts) I'd love to get good at. I think it's very important, perhaps more than weight trg, when one is >60yo.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:32am
Absolutely they can! A significant portion of my book is spent busting some of the myths regarding resistance training and athleticism. The idea that lifting weights will make you "musclebound," or "too bulky" is hilariously outdated.

There is a BIG difference between performing a properly designed strength and conditioning program designed to increase your performance for a given sport, and trying to become a top bodybuilder or powerlifter. As obesechopper mentioned, you're not going to accidentally become "too big" or "too strong." It takes a LOT of hard work to build up to high levels of strength and musculature. 

The fact that table tennis doesn't require a high degree of absolute strength (like football does, for example) is beside the point. Resistance training does a lot more than just make you strong! There's a cascade of unique health benefits that comes along with resistance training:

One of the most under-rated ones, in my opinion, is the beneficial effects on injury prevention and longevity. It's not just the muscles that get stronger, your bones and connective tissues also benefit! In strengthening these passive structures (along with the muscles designed to support and protect them), you become a more resilient and injury-resistant table tennis machine Thumbs Up




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:18am
Bulk makes you slower
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:49am
Originally posted by Joo Se Kev Joo Se Kev wrote:

Absolutely they can! A significant portion of my book is spent busting some of the myths regarding resistance training and athleticism. The idea that lifting weights will make you "musclebound," or "too bulky" is hilariously outdated.

There is a BIG difference between performing a properly designed strength and conditioning program designed to increase your performance for a given sport, and trying to become a top bodybuilder or powerlifter. As obesechopper mentioned, you're not going to accidentally become "too big" or "too strong." It takes a LOT of hard work to build up to high levels of strength and musculature. 

The fact that table tennis doesn't require a high degree of absolute strength (like football does, for example) is beside the point. Resistance training does a lot more than just make you strong! There's a cascade of unique health benefits that comes along with resistance training:

One of the most under-rated ones, in my opinion, is the beneficial effects on injury prevention and longevity. It's not just the muscles that get stronger, your bones and connective tissues also benefit! In strengthening these passive structures (along with the muscles designed to support and protect them), you become a more resilient and injury-resistant table tennis machine Thumbs Up






In fact weight training is an essential part of training for elite athletes even in sports where being very light is important.

Also the previous comment that bulk makes you slower is (a) not always true since what matters is power:weight ratio and (b) ignores the fact that weight training doesn't necessarily make you bulkier but does make you more explosive.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:27am
 

Edited by pingpungpeng - Yesterday at 12:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 44 minutes ago at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by Joo Se Kev Joo Se Kev wrote:

Absolutely they can! A significant portion of my book is spent busting some of the myths regarding resistance training and athleticism. The idea that lifting weights will make you "musclebound," or "too bulky" is hilariously outdated.

There is a BIG difference between performing a properly designed strength and conditioning program designed to increase your performance for a given sport, and trying to become a top bodybuilder or powerlifter. As obesechopper mentioned, you're not going to accidentally become "too big" or "too strong." It takes a LOT of hard work to build up to high levels of strength and musculature. 

The fact that table tennis doesn't require a high degree of absolute strength (like football does, for example) is beside the point. Resistance training does a lot more than just make you strong! There's a cascade of unique health benefits that comes along with resistance training:

One of the most under-rated ones, in my opinion, is the beneficial effects on injury prevention and longevity. It's not just the muscles that get stronger, your bones and connective tissues also benefit! In strengthening these passive structures (along with the muscles designed to support and protect them), you become a more resilient and injury-resistant table tennis machine Thumbs Up






In fact weight training is an essential part of training for elite athletes even in sports where being very light is important.

Also the previous comment that bulk makes you slower is (a) not always true since what matters is power:weight ratio and (b) ignores the fact that weight training doesn't necessarily make you bulkier but does make you more explosive.


Couldn't have said it better myself!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 18 minutes ago at 4:42pm
Bulk makes you slower, I have no doubt.
Nobody said that you can't train for power, so nobody is ignoring that fact, but if it's to 'bulk up' then yeah, it will make you slower.

I'd say that heavy lifting and TT don't mix if you want to get your max potential at TT.
That doesn't build explosive power, it builds bulk and mostly muscles that aren't very useful in TT, but are rather counter productive because they weigh a lot and you need to move them, whereas if you didn't have them you wouldn't have to carry them and move them around. Mass requires energy to move.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 hours 47 minutes ago at 5:13pm
Was that a 315lb raw bench for reps?  Nice work.  

In general, I agree that weight training isn't going to give some super advantage in TT.  Most elite players are rather thin.  The extra muscle mass will provide extra strength and power, but although a quick motion is advantageous in TT, you are only moving 200g-ish when you swing, so you don't need a lot of power really... just some neural activation that needs to be fine-tuned.  Power training could help a little here, but strength training will do very little.  

That said, do I think power training would help you specifically?  Absolutely.  Like myself, you're a big dude.  The extra mass from muscle will only help enable quick motions, especially with movement.  A lot of people think extra muscle mass makes you slower, but this is a myth.  Ever see the legs on sprinters?  Extra muscle mass will affect endurance, but unless you're really thin in the first place, this isn't really an issue.  

I say keep with the weights.  The only advice I'd give is to do more power-style training instead of strength training (it's also way more fun!)... The fact that you plan to compete probably means that's already what you're at.    Heavier weights, less reps, concentrate on the concentric motion and forget the eccentric motion.  Squats, deads and lunges are probably where the magic will happen.  Weights don't just build muscle.  Power motions strengthen the neuro-muscular connection, meaning you can activate the same size muscle to contract harder.  Bodybuilders are often outlifted by powerlifters half their size.  

I think you're doing awesome.  I say keep it up and let us know how it affects your game.  Also, what numbers are you hoping to put up at your next powerlifting meet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nachalnik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 hours 27 minutes ago at 5:33pm
Tell Jerome Bettis or Marshawn Lynch that mass makes you slower...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 30 minutes ago at 6:30pm
All the CNT do lifting and gym work regularly. The most powerful players, Wang Liqin and Zhang Jike have posted some impressive numbers on their lifts too...

As far as I know, everyone in the top20 does that.

From training videos, barbell squats (to strengthen the legs) and cable work for the shoulders and core seems to be common.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 16 minutes ago at 6:44pm
In this case Heavyspin is wondering if training for another sport, power lifting, will hurt his TT. Well, if you end up enjoying it so much that it cuts significantly into your TT training your TT will suffer.
Not a bad thing if you have fun either way. There is no obvious physiological reason why added muscle mass would hurt your touch and you are already playing at an unudually large size and dping well. Less time at the table at some point will affect you. I have experienced that with road cycling. I am fitter for sure but some of my TT skills are not as sharp. Only 7 days in a week and recovery is part of training.
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