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WVC 50 Men's Consolation Final

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    Posted: 06/25/2018 at 9:59pm
A close match between Richard DeWitt (USA) and Lars Tonissoo (SWE).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 12:16am
Thanks for the video.  I love Rich's pip play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 10:08am
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Thanks for the video.  I love Rich's pip play.

... with inverted rubbers Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 11:57am
looking it up, Mr. DeWitt only ended up in consolation because he withdrew from his original RR, travel problems/issues?

I did watch him play doubles with Ken Choe

Maybe somebody knows, but, is Ken Choe - Kevin Choes from 1970s southern California?  The mannerisms are exactly alike, but I hadn't seen him in 40 years.  DeWitt/Choe qualified on their doubles, but defaulted first round Friday.

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Thanks for the video.  I love Rich's pip play.

... with inverted rubbers Wink


Are you hinting that he doesn't use pips?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 12:12pm
Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 
I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.


Edited by Pushblocker - 06/26/2018 at 12:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 1:44pm

From my experience, Mark V is not a very tacky rubber when new, if you don't clean it, it will play like anti.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 


Thanks.  I thought the dead sound was from pips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by in2spin in2spin wrote:

looking it up, Mr. DeWitt only ended up in consolation because he withdrew from his original RR, travel problems/issues?

I did watch him play doubles with Ken Choe

Maybe somebody knows, but, is Ken Choe - Kevin Choes from 1970s southern California?  The mannerisms are exactly alike, but I hadn't seen him in 40 years.  DeWitt/Choe qualified on their doubles, but defaulted first round Friday.

:)
I heard second hand info that Ken Choe was a good junior player in USA listed as Kevin, then lived in Korea for a while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 3:28pm
the bh loop with the shakehand grip with the ph racket is a tell........he does all the same little mannerisms, plus, his table game is pretty distinguishable

Kevin Choes was like 2200 in the late 1970s

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 
I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.

Every time I see Rich play, I get that feeling the regular laws of physics suspend themselves in his presence and that is how all those shots land.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 

I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.



Every time I see Rich play, I get that feeling the regular laws of physics suspend themselves in his presence and that is how all those shots land.

ILya

If I would not have seen and checked his racket myself, I would firmly believe that his rubber was doctored. His balls have no spin at all.. it's his stroke, not the rubber.

BTW, Rich should have taken a timeout when the Swede started coming back.. 9:5 lead in the 5th. At 9:7, at the Swede's serve, he should have called timeout..
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I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 

Mr. Dewitt explained to me that he had his airline tickets set to attend the tournament just as a spectator.  The USATT President encouraged Mr. Dewitt to play so he did, however his flight plans required him to miss the first day, thus defaulting into consolation.

So, its fun to think how well he may have done in the championship division.  I would say this about his play: he, for sure, is one of the most difficult players to play well against, especially the first time you play him.  It can be nightmarish.  This is why his highest rating is over 2400.

Thanks......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

...

BTW, Rich should have taken a timeout when the Swede started coming back.. 9:5 lead in the 5th. At 9:7, at the Swede's serve, he should have called timeout..

I believe his bench coach ('heavyspin', IIRC) tried to call time out, but Rich waved him off ( too lazy to check video now).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

...

BTW, Rich should have taken a timeout when the Swede started coming back.. 9:5 lead in the 5th. At 9:7, at the Swede's serve, he should have called timeout..

I believe his bench coach ('heavyspin', IIRC) tried to call time out, but Rich waved him off ( too lazy to check video now).


You are correct on the time out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

...

BTW, Rich should have taken a timeout when the Swede started coming back.. 9:5 lead in the 5th. At 9:7, at the Swede's serve, he should have called timeout..


I believe his bench coach ('heavyspin', IIRC) tried to call time out, but Rich waved him off ( too lazy to check video now).

Would have been the right call.. He would have probably won.. At 7:9 I would also have taken my time before continuing.. anything that would have broken the flow of the Swede.. At 9:9, he should have taken towel break instead of just continuing.. Oh well... He did play well but the Swede certainly did well too..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 

Mr. Dewitt explained to me that he had his airline tickets set to attend the tournament just as a spectator.  The USATT President encouraged Mr. Dewitt to play so he did, however his flight plans required him to miss the first day, thus defaulting into consolation.

So, its fun to think how well he may have done in the championship division.  I would say this about his play: he, for sure, is one of the most difficult players to play well against, especially the first time you play him.  It can be nightmarish.  This is why his highest rating is over 2400.

Thanks......

Rich would have caused some damage in the main draw. For players who have never played him, it will take some time to adjust to his game.. He can take down very high rated players due to his unusual style..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.
 

I had the occasion to play vs him twice when I was on the East Coast. I checked his rubber after hearing all the legendary talk about his 30 yr old Mark V rubbers slicker than anti. His rubbers are no more slick than anyone else's 2 yr old rubbers.

What is slick is his control of grip pressure at impact and control or arm/wrist angles/timing. He puts a ball anywhere at a medium pace from any slot... often with little to no spin... and the speed of the arm and whip make it look like there should be spin, but there isn't... and ball get to you at a different time. So, being off time, off zone, out of position is a rough one to cope with for any player.

You can hit through him, contrary to forum legend and videos, but reading his ball and being there on time doesn't happen all the time, it happens less that you think. You make more than your share of errors trying to pressure him and he can pressure you without much risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 7:34am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.
 

I had the occasion to play vs him twice when I was on the East Coast. I checked his rubber after hearing all the legendary talk about his 30 yr old Mark V rubbers slicker than anti. His rubbers are no more slick than anyone else's 2 yr old rubbers.

What is slick is his control of grip pressure at impact and control or arm/wrist angles/timing. He puts a ball anywhere at a medium pace from any slot... often with little to no spin... and the speed of the arm and whip make it look like there should be spin, but there isn't... and ball get to you at a different time. So, being off time, off zone, out of position is a rough one to cope with for any player.

You can hit through him, contrary to forum legend and videos, but reading his ball and being there on time doesn't happen all the time, it happens less that you think. You make more than your share of errors trying to pressure him and he can pressure you without much risk.
Great summary.. His placement is amazing. He keeps opponents out of position, making it difficult to hit their best shots.. Very unique and talented player..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 7:57am
His opponent was blatantly leaving his free arm out on every serve. I saw that in a lot of wvc matches. Maybe because the players are old they let them play by old rules? I would have broken out an anti bat with two black rubbers, and said if serve rules don't apply to you, two colors doesn't to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 
I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.

It's a mixture of fact and fiction.  He changes rubber every two years and his optimal rubber isn't when the rubber is new or when the rubber is slick.  It's at a point where the rubber is deader than new, but still grippy enough to get decent mechanical spin.  It makes him less susceptible to topsheet grip for incoming spin but he still needs some to make his game work.  Something like this is true for most inverted blockers, even with Tenergy, but because Rich topspins less, he goes for the deadness of the rubber more, but not to the point the rubber is slick.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 9:54am
His opponent was blatantly leaving his free arm out on every serve. I saw that in a lot of wvc matches. Maybe because the players are old they let them play by old rules?

A good observation.  After a few days of watching the live streaming, I concluded that the experience broke my all-time personal record of observing illegal serves.  The thought came to mind: Did everyone at the WVC serve illegally?  

One of my favorites was Lily Yip's semi: her opponent has one serve in which the toss approaches the physical limitation in lowness.  Not since a match I played in a garage over 30 years ago have I observed such lowness.  She smartly varied it with a very high toss serve.  

Lily never said a word and both the scorekeeper and the umpire stared into space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 10:02am
In addition to Mark V, Rich uses an old Stiga all-round blade. Rich once borrowed a racket with tenergy on both sides on an offensive blade and played a mid 2200 level player. I don't recall the scores exactly but Rich lost 3 close games, all 11-9 or 12-10. The point is that Rich played his same style, often frustrating his opponent with dead balls. He admitted afterward that it was more difficult to control than what he's used to. 
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The rumors of my driving my rental car several miles with Rich the day before competition to place his racket to bake in the desert and retrieve it the following day are not true. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 3:17pm
with regard to illegal serves/low tosses.....

yes, many of the players are from that era, so, the complaints about illegal tosses/serves were mostly non existent (?).  I only saw one person complaining about it (to a chinese server/practitioner, haha).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

The rumors of my driving my rental car several miles with Rich the day before competition to place his racket to bake in the desert and retrieve it the following day are not true. 
hahahahaha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

The rumors of my driving my rental car several miles with Rich the day before competition to place his racket to bake in the desert and retrieve it the following day are not true. 
hahahahaha


Majmja told me that when he took the drive through Red Rock Canyon he saw many paddles taking  in the sun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

The rumors of my driving my rental car several miles with Rich the day before competition to place his racket to bake in the desert and retrieve it the following day are not true. 
hahahahaha


Majmja told me that when he took the drive through Red Rock Canyon he saw many paddles taking  in the sun.
By coincidence, they all had Mark V rubbers, right???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Not hinting. Rich plays with pretty dead inverted rubbers.

I believe he had travel issues, which is how he ended up in consolation. 
I was playing in a Team with Rich at the NA Teams.. I checked his rubber and it was regular, grippy Mark V. It's his stroke that deadens every ball, not the rubber..   I know that a few years ago, his rubber was very old but he did change to a new Mark V a while ago.

It's a mixture of fact and fiction.  He changes rubber every two years and his optimal rubber isn't when the rubber is new or when the rubber is slick.  It's at a point where the rubber is deader than new, but still grippy enough to get decent mechanical spin.  It makes him less susceptible to topsheet grip for incoming spin but he still needs some to make his game work.  Something like this is true for most inverted blockers, even with Tenergy, but because Rich topspins less, he goes for the deadness of the rubber more, but not to the point the rubber is slick.
I think that a lot of players don't like to play brand new rubbers.. I guess when it comes to Tenergy, they are pretty good out of the package but sticky chinese rubbers play best after about 10 hours of play. The initial stickyness makes them act quite different for the first couple of hours.. I wouldn't want to use it brand new in a tournament but I also wouldn't want a sticky chinese rubber after more than 2 years as it loses lots of it's grip. I get on average 1.5 years out of a DHS G888... The only rubber that consistently gets better with age are long pips.. No doubt about that..  The older the better. My oldest sheet was 7 years old when it started losing too many pips and I had to take it off..

Edited by Pushblocker - 06/27/2018 at 11:21pm
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