|
|
Harimoto forehand technique |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||||
maurice101
Member Joined: 02/24/2017 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 07/30/2018 at 5:47pm |
|||
I was watching Harimoto's forehand at the practice call at the Australian Open last week. It was interesting to watch his forehand and then watch the other players forehands at the practice hall. I noticed he gets a lot more hip and shoulder rotation compared to all the other players. Maybe he is more flexible? He does not seem to straighten his arm in the backswing much at all. He rotates forward very fast. It seems he rotates forward much much faster than all other players in the hall. It would be interesting to measure this with slow motion video and compare other players. This must give him a faster racket speed? Any comments on his technique from others?
|
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Yes, reminiscent of Gatien.
|
||||
Clarence247
Silver Member Joined: 02/11/2014 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 557 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
That's obvious no?
The weaker a player is physically , the more he has to use hip and waist rotation to enhance the power of the shot. Actually everybody should! It's the way chinese coaches teach, rotation from the hip is the key to Spin , power and shot quality. When someone is underdeveloped physically compared to others he is competing with, it becomes even more important. It's also even more important with the new heavier ball. I remember my lessons in 1996-2000 - the coach really emphasized on this
|
||||
OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max) Mantra M (Max) Backup: Yasaka Extra Offensive, Nittaku H3 Prov 729-802 SP |
||||
wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
His forehand level is way below his backhand level
|
||||
Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
|
||||
maurice101
Member Joined: 02/24/2017 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
So if his strength increases and he continues to use a lot of very fast hip rotation he will develop a great forehand?
|
||||
zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
No, it will only lead to injury at this rate. That's why the CNT doesn't encourage trunk rotation anymore.
|
||||
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
ZJK is on the other end of the spectrum, with not a lot of waist rotation...and he got injured quite badly too... Fan Zhendong uses a lot of waist rotation too, and he seems quite healthy at the moment (don't know about the future tho!).
I have a fellow club member who just rips every shot mainly using shoulder movement and he still seems healthy after decades of playing! |
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
Clarence247
Silver Member Joined: 02/11/2014 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 557 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Waist rotation dies not lead to injuries as long as the athlete is in good shape and maintains his flexibility through stretching. As athletes grow older they lose flexibility and if they don't compensate with specific stretching they do get injured. The best fh players use waist and legs a lot. Power from the ground, ration from the waist
|
||||
OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max) Mantra M (Max) Backup: Yasaka Extra Offensive, Nittaku H3 Prov 729-802 SP |
||||
wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Way less rotation after the introduction of the plastic balls, due to the speed of the balls and thus less time to reaction. Instead, one should use his/her hip to transfer the power from the leg. This is according to Li Sun, the head coach of the women's team. He actually used ZJK as an example against it.
|
||||
Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
|
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
women and men, don't they have different styles (with some exceptions)
|
||||
wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I guess you thought that Li Sun knows nothing about men's team and they don't really train together, lol |
||||
Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
|
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
not knowing nothing about men's team but he might just be talking about the women's style (didn't see the interview)
|
||||
wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
If he was talking about female players only, I would've said so. No, he was referring to all players in general, using zjk as an example. If you understand Mandarin, it's easy to find the video clip. No more waist rotation with plastic balls. |
||||
Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
|
||||
mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It Would be great to have the translated video |
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
wanchope, would you say ML in the 2017 World Cup against TB was using his waist
|
||||
ZhouZhekai
Member Joined: 05/24/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 50 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I think another advantage of Harimoto is that it is applicable close to the table because the time needed for the stroke is less when compared to Ma Long or Fan Zhendong
|
||||
zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
This is where the technical stuff comes in.
The lower back refers to the lumbar spine, where the waist is. This part of the spine is not suited for rotation. Look it up on the net. It's been widely documented. Here's an example. Simply put, waist rotation is bad. Now, ZJK's injury is not in the lumbar spine, but in the sacrum. He was born with a fracture on the left side of it. The right side is now fractured as well due to training. The condition got worse after he sprained his ankle, as he had to put more stress on the lower back to compensate. @16:48 Edited by zeio - 08/01/2018 at 8:47am |
||||
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
||||
wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
ML started before the plastic ball era. So it's natural that these players would maintain some, if not all, the techniques from before. I think the idea is that using hip instead of waist rotation is the way to go, and the CNT (men and women) is working on this. Maybe if you compare ML's FH from before vs. today, you might see some difference. Also, FH from close to the table and from far away is different. Again, this is a sport not a science. Being a top player depends on more than mere way of stroke. Everyone is different. There are a lot of vidoes on this topic actually, at least those in manderin. Below is one of those that I mentioned. No subtitle though, :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzYhdtJIdBg |
||||
Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
|
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I actually did see this and is applying whatever he said. Do you have an example of a leading male player who is not using waist?
|
||||
danseemiller
Silver Member Joined: 11/30/2011 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 506 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Harimoto favors the BH. This gives him less time to turn for the Fh.
His neutral position is a bit left of center. For instance Ma Long's FH was right of center for a long time and he has moved it a bit to the left to improve his BH.
|
||||
DS
|
||||
APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The plastic ball has made a tempo change, we all feel it at every level. It is less effective to play a committed large power spin f/hand because it is easier for the opponent to cope with, unless there is a 'window' for a winner, an aggressor will end up out of tempo in the rally.
The game has moved towards counter hit more than spin orientated. Short snappy strokes are the way to go, the b/hand is naturally that, f/hand not so, difficult for older players who have ingrained old style stroke production based on spin/power. Baal is right, Gatien would be right on the ball now, not that he wasn't then lol. As Dan says above, b/hand players have less time to commit and are by nature more square to the table, a disadvantage when playing off the table, but the new kids on the block just do not need to, they can meet the incoming topspin early off a square stance and time a short snappy counter loop to great effect.
|
||||
The Older I get, The better I was.
|
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
|
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
"I think the idea is that using hip instead of waist rotation is the way to go"
How the heck can the waist not rotate when the hips do? Can you link to a video showing this?
|
||||
ZhouZhekai
Member Joined: 05/24/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 50 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Look at Zhang Jike loop, barely any waist compared to Ma Long, but a explosive hip movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr8IaMWXCK0
|
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Thanks for the video link ZhouZhekai.
Sure I see less body turn in ZJK's forehand, but the waist and hips turn together (at least that is what I'm seeing). However, I see more shoulder turn in ML's swing. Anatomically, I just can't see how the waist can move separately from the hips, but I can see the shoulders turning more than the waist. Again, at least that's what I'm seeing when comparing swings. I agree with you as far as an explosive hip movement goes, since as the video captions say, the power is transferred from feet to hips, but I see the waist moving with the hips.
|
||||
tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
since no one is answering you, here is my take. you cannot use the hip without moving the waist, I think what they mean is the movement coming from the hip and the waist going with it - that is the waist not being rotated to any great extend beyond the movement attached to the hip.
|
||||
Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Thx, tom. That makes sense!
|
||||
mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Liu said harimoto FH was average to low |
||||
timole
Member Joined: 07/28/2018 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 20 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
.
Edited by timole - 09/16/2018 at 2:05pm |
||||
BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Definitely amateur level. But his footwork must be amazing, since he has to play bhs all over the table to keep the other top ten WR men from getting into his fh. |
||||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |