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STIGA VTT - Li Sun's Clinics |
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Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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You can call me pedantic, but I'd call it oblique, at best, misleading at worst.
When I read,"The waist should stay put." or "The waist should remain still" without any qualification, I take it as he says it. "Staying put" means do not move at all! It does not mean follow. Or this, ""All you have to do is flex the hip with the body facing the ball." Sorry, I think that is very poor communication for a coach. Maybe his audience is advanced players and they get it. However, "the waist should stay put as it follows the hips" is confusing to me as well. The waist is moving so it cannot stay put... you can call me pedantic, but I think it's a confusing way to express it. As others have said, the waist follows the hip... power from the ground, up... and all o' that. It sounds like we will have to agree to disagree on this minor point. I do agree with what you are saying with respect to the intended technique.
Edited by Ieyasu - 08/03/2018 at 10:32pm |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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maybe a waist of time
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2334 |
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Yes, as per PythonMonty, follow the coaches who say, "use your legs". i'e focus on powering from that push onto the leg, the rest will follow. Edited by Tinykin - 08/04/2018 at 1:55am |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Haha smackman...good one.
Speaking of waisting time, I am going to ask a couple of Chinese players rated over 2400 who speak the King's English, what they think that coach is saying. I agree with Tinykin's post... I'm just curious whether this coach is not communicating clearly or I'm a pedantic idiot.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Thanks, Andy. Waist rotation has been a problematic term for a long time, if folks will check out the table below. Cervical = Neck, Thoracic = Chest, Lumbar = Waist The lumbar spine has the least range of motion. Upper body rotation is largely completed by the thoracic spine and hips. That's why I've always used trunk/torso rotation instead when writing on forums and subbing videos, such as this one, even if they actually meant waist rotation. Still, trunk rotation is de-emphasized nowadays for reasons as you stated. Edited by zeio - 08/04/2018 at 8:14am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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To clarify what Li Sun meant: In his demonstration above, he flexed his hip and knee to "turn" his trunk and bring his weight down for the backswing. Notice the angle between his trunk and thigh decreased. See the image below. He then extended his hip and knee for the forward swing. Also, there's some internal/external rotation and abduction/adduction of the right/left hip. It's hard to see so you have to experience it yourself. He also stressed that one should not overextend the hip(hip hyperextension) when doing it. Edited by zeio - 08/04/2018 at 10:03am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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The stamp means "to push off the foot." Think of walking up the stairs. Flexion is just the anatomical term for "bend." Elbow flexion is basically forearm snap, for instance. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Thx zeio. Succinct and clear.
Also, watching the video I missed the downward and then upward movement with the foot/knee/leg, as opposed to playing in a crouched stance and merely rotating each time. (That's a great deal of head movement).
Edited by Ieyasu - 08/04/2018 at 10:39am |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Wow....very informative indeed... I tried some shadow stroke practice with the suggestions and it seems to work better! Will try it on a real table next... Basically the shoulders should always be in line with the hips right to prevent any torsion at the lower back. It does make a lot of sense |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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DistantStar
Super Member Joined: 07/19/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Translation for people who dont like to get too nerdy:
Xuxin FH - NO! LSW FH - YES! |
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Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0 Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0 |
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pitigoi
Super Member Joined: 06/19/2015 Location: Illinois, USA Status: Offline Points: 257 |
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I started today pushing the ground with the right foot when doing right hand FHs,
and keeping shoulders more parallel with the hips, and it feels right, except: Sometimes I am fast or lucky enough to get to the ball behind the table and above net level (also I'm short, think Koki Niwa). Here I feel trunk rotation is still better in terms of recovering for the next shot versus the only alternative I can think of for increasing my power: move my right foot way in the back, and transfer my weight from the back leg to the front leg. |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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More Li Sun's clinics. Keeping them together for easier reference.
Edited by zeio - 08/12/2018 at 11:41am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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assam
Silver Member Joined: 03/02/2014 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 968 |
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Great stuff again Zeio
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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These are fabulous. I particularly like: "Remember to 'eat' the ball"!!! |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Just putting my piggy bank here, in case folks want to show their appreciation.
Subbing takes a ton of time, effort and dedication! |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Last year in Deaflympics my game was completely broken, because I had no a coach to explain me these things posted in these videos. Old style with adding tons of spin on the ball just gone far away. It is just not effective. Today is more possible to receive back injury looking to play old style (with more spin) than some success in the matches. Often you have no time to react well, especially with balls Nittaku Premium 40+. I felt myself physical disturbed a lot. With Nittaku SHA 40+ my game was two or three ideas better than with Premium 40+. Also rest of the balls DHS/DONIC/STIGA/BUTTRFLY I never had the troubles that I have with Premium 40+. These balls also go faster than usual and they are also harder than rest on the market. The coach here is right, overall you have no time already to play old stylle table tennis and the new/younger, professional oriented players - they must play completely limited in movements if they want to be successful. I am afraid we will never see again the beautiful table tennis from Waldner's Era.
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ZhouZhekai
Member Joined: 05/24/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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Can anyone enlighten me of the concept of stomping?
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Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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"Just bump into it." So no more brushing?
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Ieyasu
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2015 Location: DPR Kalifornia Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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In one of Zeio's subtitles, it looks like stomping is synonymous with pushing off with the right-foot, for a right-hander. (In English that is not the case, of course)
Edited by Ieyasu - 08/12/2018 at 8:27pm |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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Lol we can finally talk about hip extension
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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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The exact word used is "蹬". According to my dictionary, it means "腿、腳向腳底方向用力", literally "leg or foot uses force in the direction of the bottom of the foot" in English. Now, stamp means "to thrust the foot forcibly downward", when used intransitively or "to bring the foot down onto (an object or surface) forcibly", transitively. I didn't choose "stomp" because it carries a connotation of anger. "蹬" is often used in combination with another character, such as "蹬伸"(to stamp and extend), "蹬轉"(to stamp and turn), "蹬腿"(to stamp the leg, also used for leg press), "蹬腳"(to stamp the foot) etc. In some parts of China, "跺" is used instead of "蹬". The former carries a connotation of anger, not unlike stamp vs stomp. Whatever term you prefer, the idea is to transfer the weight in sync with the forward swing of the stroke. Edited by zeio - 08/20/2018 at 9:14am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Liquid Sky
Member Joined: 02/17/2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Hi zeio,
Thank you for the subtitles in the videos! This is very interesting since lots of people, on a lower level, have difficulties with the concept of rotating the waist. The way I understand the concept of flexion in the hip, this results more in an upwards movement while playing VH Topspin while the concept of rotating the waist gives a forward movement. Could you explain how to generate a forward movement when using flexion of the hip? Thank you! Best regards |
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XIOM - Vega Pro (2,0 mm) |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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Hi Zeio, do you feel that the above video deserve a new thread of its own? I personally have no idea on how to hit first then spin and I suspect nor does many others.
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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I thought Li Sun was saying to hit the first ball then spin the second, which doesn't seem to make sense. Then I watched the video and he actually said "hit 1st brush 2nd" in the same stroke.. He means you should first make sure a good contact going through the center of the ball (hit), and the brush is secondary. |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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He didn't say anything about changing racket angle during ball contact, or even during the stroke, though. I think he's saying to avoid pure brushing strokes especially with the new plastic ball. I mean you can have a stroke going through (mostly) the centre of the ball while brushing it at the same time, right? That should be what he's advocating.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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the video didn't say anything about how to execute hit and spin (and power)
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Benjiex
Beginner Joined: 09/05/2018 Location: New Jersey USA Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I'll check this video. ;)
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Glad to be of help. That's right. To do what Li Sun does below, you need a combination of hip flexion/extension, internal/external rotation and abbduction/adduction of the hip, in order to produce both forward and upward movement. To keep yourself upright, your knees and ankles move accordingly as well. Li Sun refers to the entire motion as hip flexion probably because it contributes the most due to its range of motion, as can be seen in the super slomo of ML's forehand loop. Edited by zeio - 09/11/2018 at 7:27am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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I thought about that, but I feel the concepts presented are all interconnected. By keeping them together I hope to make it easier for people to get a better grasp of the whole picture. As for hit-brush, focus on getting the ball across the table(hit) first and work on keeping it on the table(brush), as demonstrated by Li Sun in the another video. I will get that one translated some time later as it's long. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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