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    Posted: 08/09/2018 at 2:49pm
After playing more in Salem, Or. I am even more suprised in the apparrent playing level difference between players from Tx and the West Coast who have approximately the same rating. In warmup and drilling with players 1400-1700 it felt like I was hitting with 2000-2100 players from Tx. When playing against them it was odd in that I won some matches, but still felt totally outclassed and did not understand why they lost.

After thinking more about this I have come to the conclusion that there is a significant difference in the shot quality attempted by 1400-1800 level players in Tx than on the west coast. The west coast players seem to hit the same high level of speed and spin regardless of their level. The lower rated players that "felt" like 2000+ players had the same quality balls as much higher rated players, but have much much less consistency. In Texas it is more usual to see lower level players hitting slower and less spinny shots, but having good consistency with their shots. In addition the west coast players seem to aggressively counterattack much more than their rating counterparts from Tx who will defend or control more against attacks (for 1400-1800 rating range).

So when I warm up or drill with a west coast player the first ball that comes at me is at a much higer level than I am used to playing against since I seldom played with over 2000 players in Tx. I just can not stay in a rally with them. Of course on thinking about it more I realize the 1400-1800 player out here is missing a lot more than I would expect so the rallies do tend to be very short. If I try to slow my returns down to make for longer rallies in drills or warmup I simply get overwhelmed by even stronger shots or the ball is coming back so fast and spinny that I can not use a slower swing (have to use a block instead).

In games it is similar in that my opponents keep hitting winners when I am expecting a somewhat defensive shot. Of course they miss a lot, but what sticks in my mind is the winners they hit and the fact that nothing I do seems to get them on the defensive. On the other hand, when they do land shots I respond to the higher quality ball by being more defensive. Even when I win a point, it feels much more like they lost it than I won it.

Not sure why there is this difference. Maybe the exposure to the play of many more high level players on the coast leads players to start playing the very aggessive shots at lower rating levels. It does occur to me that in Tx you do see some of the same things in juniors invoved in training groups where they do get exposure to much higher level play than their own.

Anyway I have lots of work to do to just be able to warm-up properly with the 1500 players out here much less be able to play against them.

Mark - Whose legs are getting much stronger from all the waling back to the barriers to pick up the winners hit past me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 2:59pm
I've noticed style and technique differences between regions. When I moved to North Carolina in 1979 to train for two years at the Butterfly center I got in a bit of trouble when I was interviewed. I was asked how table tennis was different there compared to Maryland and the Northeast. My answer was, "Nobody here knows anything about serve and receive." Yep, that got some people angry. But the reality was that your average 1800 player in NC back then had 2000+ strokes, but were way behind on serve and receive compared to players in the northeast. I could just as easily have said that players in the northeast had horrible strokes, and compared to players from NC of the same level, it was true. 

There are regional differences all over the country. Players from Maryland have often been cited for their strong backhands and short receive, which historically have been better than their counterparts, while not being as strong in other ways. Players in the NY and NJ are often very good tactically because they have so many tournaments in the region so they learn how to play different tactics against different players, which is tricky to do if you just play the same players over and over in your club. If you come from a club with a coach who has a big forehand, then that club will likely develop a lot of strong forehands. Dan Seemiller developed in Pittsburgh, and to this day there are a disproportionate number of players there with the Seemiller grip. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 2:59pm
Hitting winners during warmup is not a sign of shot quality so much as just being inconsiderate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 3:20pm
I dont think Mark means the players in warmup are trying to blast winners away from him. I think he means the balls players under his rating hit to his middle fh or bh and the ball simply has too much juice on it. I see 1900 players here with a 2300 or 2400 bh to bh.

I totally see what Mark is saying. A 1600 player here will have very developed offensive shot that can overwhelm Mark.

Mark doesn't get enough credit for his touch and consistency that will ultimately trouble the 1600 California crowd.

Edited by BH-Man - 08/09/2018 at 3:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Hitting winners during warmup is not a sign of shot quality so much as just being inconsiderate.


It is not that they are smashing winners. But the first and second balls back to me are much fastet and spinnier than I expect for their level. If I return like I would warming up with 2100 player the rallies tend to be really short because the ball just gets faster and faster and one of us misses quickly. With 2100 players the ball does not seem to speed up and we rally till I miss. I guess I feel that if a warmup rally does not go 10 shots each then as the higher rated player I am doing something wrong. In Tx most of the time I can adjust and get longer rallies with weaker players. Out here I have not been able to adjust unless I go to pure blocking and even then their shots are often above my ability to handle them. One player told me that a coach had told him not to slow down his shots in warm-up or drills even if his opponent could not rally at that speed. The coach said it would hurt his game to attempt to slow down his shots. I had heard that you reallly need to be doing at least 10 reps each in every rally in order to estabish muscle memory so I always tried to adjust speed to get the longer rallies.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 3:33pm
WE had a local Northern Calif club player move to Texas a couple years ago and he comes back to visit family and play locally. Recently I had a chance to play with him when he returned to Berkeley and asked him what if anything was the difference for him between Calif and Texas. He mentioned   the higher number of players locally in Northern Calif along with clubs. We have RR play in several clubs just a few miles apart several days a week while in Texas it required long drives between clubs and his local club was small dominated by older players using pips. He said he has taught his wife how to serve multi-ball for him as most of the local Texas players at his club were not interested in practice sessions.
The high number of clubs and players in metro Calif cities provide a unique TT experience for American players that is hard to find outside Calif.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 3:40pm
I don't seem to warm up to get warm.  I use that time to try to get my mechanics right.  I don't even think about hitting the ball hard, I'm just working on my stroke, footwork, etc.  Although not thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I am hitting hard.  I'm sure I'm the player Mark described, who hits hard with lots of spin, but can be inconsistent.  I'm also that way during a match so guys like Mark will beat me with well placed shots and blocks.  He does chase my ball to the barrier, but usually because I can't find the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 3:59pm
Mark, you ought to swing down San Diego way when you find ally go back...if you haven't planned to do so already. Stellan got some junior players down there who cannot do tourneys fast enough to keep up with their true level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Hitting winners during warmup is not a sign of shot quality so much as just being inconsiderate.


It is not that they are smashing winners. But the first and second balls back to me are much fastet and spinnier than I expect for their level. If I return like I would warming up with 2100 player the rallies tend to be really short because the ball just gets faster and faster and one of us misses quickly. With 2100 players the ball does not seem to speed up and we rally till I miss. I guess I feel that if a warmup rally does not go 10 shots each then as the higher rated player I am doing something wrong. In Tx most of the time I can adjust and get longer rallies with weaker players. Out here I have not been able to adjust unless I go to pure blocking and even then their shots are often above my ability to handle them. One player told me that a coach had told him not to slow down his shots in warm-up or drills even if his opponent could not rally at that speed. The coach said it would hurt his game to attempt to slow down his shots. I had heard that you reallly need to be doing at least 10 reps each in every rally in order to estabish muscle memory so I always tried to adjust speed to get the longer rallies.

Mark


Not slowing down shots in drills I can completely understand. Not slowing down in warmup is stupid. The whole point of warmup is to warm your body up so you don't injure yourself by going straight into full speed strokes. Nobody warms up enough that slowing down for two minutes will hurt their stroke production in drills or matches.

The other thing is that warmup is not their personal time. Just like in big tennis, both players are meant to help the other get warm. If they are using warmup as a drill then they are denying you the chance to get warm, and potentially causing you to suffer an injury due to their selfishness. I don't blame a player (assuming it's a kid) for doing what his coach says. But what the coach said just sux, it's stupid and rude.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

I don't seem to warm up to get warm.  I use that time to try to get my mechanics right.  I don't even think about hitting the ball hard, I'm just working on my stroke, footwork, etc.  Although not thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I am hitting hard.  I'm sure I'm the player Mark described, who hits hard with lots of spin, but can be inconsistent.  I'm also that way during a match so guys like Mark will beat me with well placed shots and blocks.  He does chase my ball to the barrier, but usually because I can't find the table.


You are a little stronger and a little more inconsitent in warmup and drill than I was used to, but not exceptionally so. I have 1500 players here in Salem hitting much stronger shots (but with much greater inconsistency) than you do.

You are a great example of the aggressive counter-attacking that I am finding out west. I was very often suprised and intimidated by your counter-attacks of what I thought were strong attacks. I sometimes fell into the trap of trying to attack even harder beyond my ability to be consistent.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 4:26pm
BRS,

Maybe coach only said in drills. I will ask today. Guess it is a more complicated issue in drills than in warmup.

In the long run, facing more of the higher quality balls should help me improve my game.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 6:53pm
Where I live just sucks for table tennis. And this thread depresses the heck out of me. 

Mark hits WAY harder than I do in warm up. I end up blocking most of it. I cannot image what he i hitting against out west. I will say I think most Texas players-San Antonio, Houston, Dallas area ALL hit harder than our little club. Mucho harder. I do recall playing in many tournaments however and being astonished by how good some players are at FH to FH and BH to BH drills, but who cannot handle any variation.

I was thinking of going to my first US Open or Nationals in December, but who am I kidding...
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Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Where I live just sucks for table tennis. And this thread depresses the heck out of me. 

Mark hits WAY harder than I do in warm up. I end up blocking most of it. I cannot image what he i hitting against out west. I will say I think most Texas players-San Antonio, Houston, Dallas area ALL hit harder than our little club. Mucho harder. I do recall playing in many tournaments however and being astonished by how good some players are at FH to FH and BH to BH drills, but who cannot handle any variation.

I was thinking of going to my first US Open or Nationals in December, but who am I kidding...


What Vanjr fails to mention is that he punch blocks right off the bounce and through some sort of multi-dimensional physics gets the ball back to you just before you actually hit it. Talk about being rushed.

Seriously,we usually had very good warmups with
one player blocking while the other hit. But we did not do much of the spin to spin type hitting where I am seeing the big difference out here. Vanjr does have a very fast Fh shot from well off the table that tied me up very similarly to what I am facing here. Not sure if it is a loop kill or more of a flat kill, but it sure is loud and fast. But with him it is an occasional shot and not usually done as one of the 1st couple of shots in any warmup rally or drill.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 8:50pm
I don't follow it, isn't it understood that while one player drives/loops the other one acts as a blocking partner, I hardly ever see both the players practicing counter looping (atleast below the 2200 level) here in west coast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hardbatpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 10:02pm
LOL in the middle of reading this I thought wow that person sounds like me! But then I realized it IS me. :-)

So here's the scoop on CA vs TX. I trained with the excellent coaches at various clubs including Berkeley, Concord, and Alameda. And of course World Champions in Santa Clara. So when I moved to San Antonio I was certain that TT would be less fun.

I was WRONG! Since moving here my game has gotten better. Doing group and private training is great for honing technique, but it's lousy at deepening your understanding of your unique game. Since moving here I've developed my service game and adjusted my entire approach to suit my capabilities (and incapabilities LOL). And I've started playing more big tournaments like NA Teams and the World Veteran Championship.

SOOOO... to speak in broad generalities, many competitive 1400-1800 level players in CA are trained formally; there are plenty who aren't but with a high Asian immigrant population I saw more in CA. In TX there more 1400-1800 players who aren't formally trained but are very naturally athletic. So they don't loop with a lot of topspin, they play a solid consistent mid-distance game, and they probably have some unorthodox serves you don't see on ITTV.

As for myself, I actually lived in TX before moving to CA and then moving back to TX. I'm an unathletic player who got some training late in life but still can't 100% rid myself of janky basement player strokes. :-) But I LOVE THIS GAME!

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

WE had a local Northern Calif club player move to Texas a couple years ago and he comes back to visit family and play locally. Recently I had a chance to play with him when he returned to Berkeley and asked him what if anything was the difference for him between Calif and Texas. He mentioned   the higher number of players locally in Northern Calif along with clubs. We have RR play in several clubs just a few miles apart several days a week while in Texas it required long drives between clubs and his local club was small dominated by older players using pips. He said he has taught his wife how to serve multi-ball for him as most of the local Texas players at his club were not interested in practice sessions.
The high number of clubs and players in metro Calif cities provide a unique TT experience for American players that is hard to find outside Calif.


Edited by hardbatpower - 08/09/2018 at 10:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hardbatpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2018 at 10:19pm
Van, don't be so hard on yourself.

You should definitely go to a big tournament like the Open. You'll get "tournament tough."

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Where I live just sucks for table tennis. And this thread depresses the heck out of me.

I was thinking of going to my first US Open or Nationals in December, but who am I kidding...


Edited by hardbatpower - 08/09/2018 at 10:20pm
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Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I don't follow it, isn't it understood that while one player drives/loops the other one acts as a blocking partner, I hardly ever see both the players practicing counter looping (atleast below the 2200 level) here in west coast.


I was not as clear as I should have been. When I said "warmup" I did not mean the 2-3 min before a match. I was speaking about the type of extended warmup of 20-30 min you might do when you first get to the club or if someone just wants to hit instead of play a game when its their turn on the table. The way I usually try to do it is topspin to topspin medium speed counters, then loop to block, then block to loop, then drive to drive (or loop to loop) with both players somewhat off the table, repeat on the other wing, some pushing back and forth, and finally some serve, open, 5th ball for each player.

Instead of counter to counter I was getting loop to counter and when I switched to blocking I got loopkill to block. When I was trying for medium speed loop to loop I got really strong counter-loops (felt almost like loopkills at times).

Tonight was better. I rallied back a little more aggressively which gave me better control instead of trying to take pace off the ball. Also returning more aggessively weakened their shots a little. Rallies with one player improved a lot, but that was mostly me just getting used to his speed and spin.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2018 at 8:53pm
We would really ROFLMAO or such if we see Mark do a vid where he is blasting balls and choing at the full moon... but it isn't gunna happen. We know Mark simply lets his points won in rallies keeping it on the table one more time do the speaking. There is something to a silent "I won point" where Mark wins point by handling an opponent's best shot while on balance ready for more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2018 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

We would really ROFLMAO or such if we see Mark do a vid where he is blasting balls and choing at the full moon... but it isn't gunna happen. We know Mark simply lets his points won in rallies keeping it on the table one more time do the speaking. There is something to a silent "I won point" where Mark wins point by handling an opponent's best shot while on balance ready for more.

Silent type, but feared by all!


Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 08/10/2018 at 11:08pm
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Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

We would really ROFLMAO or such if we see Mark do a vid where he is blasting balls and choing at the full moon... but it isn't gunna happen. We know Mark simply lets his points won in rallies keeping it on the table one more time do the speaking. There is something to a silent "I won point" where Mark wins point by handling an opponent's best shot while on balance ready for more.


If my actual game was half as good as BH-man makes it sound I could die a happy man.

Bye the way, I sometimes forget about maintaining my secret identity and let out a Cho-Ho-Ho-Ho after winning a point with a really good shot. Got to run, the annual toy fair is in town and I need to check out the latest and greatest.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 11:43am
I have not noticed this kind of difference on my trips to the west coast.  It has been a couple of years since I played at a club in Cali, and I doubt things have changed all that much.  Also, I do see Cali players who move here or visit to Houston. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I have not noticed this kind of difference on my trips to the west coast.  It has been a couple of years since I played at a club in Cali, and I doubt things have changed all that much.  Also, I do see Cali players who move here or visit to Houston. 
I see it all the time when we get visitors at the club from other parts of the country especially players from east. What I've noticed is that most players from say about 2150 level down from the east that over here they would be 1900-2000 over here (West coast) Mjamja isn't the  only one who has seen the difference in person. BH-Man had rating of 1950+ when he was back east and since he's moved to CA can't keep his rating above 1800.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 12:20pm
A lot of players from Houston have made US teams of various sorts over the years.  The level here is not low.  But like I said, it's been a couple of years since I've played in Cali.  Last time I was there (2015) I played at a club in West Covina and it seemed pretty comparable.  Mark lives in Corpus Christi which is a ways away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 12:25pm
While there are some small regional differences, the difference in levels for players of the same rating from east and west coast is often greatly exaggerated. I coach at the Open and Nationals every year in Las Vegas where MD players play CA players regularly, and there simply isn't that big a difference, at least among the junior players I coach or watch. I'd give examples, such as the Under 10 kids at this past Nationals and other kids I coached or watched who beat plenty of higher-rated players who happened to be from the west coast, but they'd be called cherry-picked examples. There are examples of players from certain CA clubs where a junior player doesn't play a tournament for a while as they improve dramatically, then shows up at the Nationals or Open and pulls off huge upsets, but that's a separate issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by larrytt larrytt wrote:

While there are some small regional differences, the difference in levels for players of the same rating from east and west coast is often greatly exaggerated. I coach at the Open and Nationals every year in Las Vegas where MD players play CA players regularly, and there simply isn't that big a difference, at least among the junior players I coach or watch. I'd give examples, such as the Under 10 kids at this past Nationals and other kids I coached or watched who beat plenty of higher-rated players who happened to be from the west coast, but they'd be called cherry-picked examples. There are examples of players from certain CA clubs where a junior player doesn't play a tournament for a while as they improve dramatically, then shows up at the Nationals or Open and pulls off huge upsets, but that's a separate issue. 
-Larry Hodges


It has been a reallly long time since I visited a club in MD but it seemed fairly similar to me there too when I did go -- back in the days when I had to go to Bethesda three times a year, which was in the mid 2000s.  One thing for sure is that the more junior players there are in a club, then the more underrated players there are in a club.  That is just the nature of things.  I would also say that related to Mark's original post, small towns tend to have a lot more "unorthodox" looking older players who don't necessarily try to play like ZJK or Ma Long.  Doesn't mean there is very significant rating inflation/deflation.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 2:40pm
Just remember that the OP was about the difference between 1400-1800 level players in the two regions. What I was trying to say was that there is a style difference between the two groups. It is a lot like 2 1500 players playing for the first time and one has LP and the other has never played against LP. If the LP player wins easily it does not mean he is underated or the other player is overrated. Out west I am seeing balls from 1400 players regularly come at me at a speed and spin that back home I usually only saw when watching 2000+ players. They can not hit 3 in a row, but against me they never have to because it is a type of ball I have limited experience facing. In just hitting I am totally dominated. When we play, I can use tactics and a better serve and return to make the matches close (and even win some) but the matches "feel" like I am playing 2000+ players. When I play someone close to my rating, tactics and serve/return just can not make up the difference. I just have to get experience against this power game just like I had to get experience against LP's.

I have not played anywhere near enough nation level juniors or adults to make any comparison between those kind of players in the 2 regions.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

A lot of players from Houston have made US teams of various sorts over the years.  The level here is not low.  But like I said, it's been a couple of years since I've played in Cali.  Last time I was there (2015) I played at a club in West Covina and it seemed pretty comparable.  Mark lives in Corpus Christi which is a ways away.


We have many clubs and some are focused on high level play such as Fremont and Alameda but others such as Concord and Berkeley have a different focus. My guess is that there are more TT players and coaches of all level in Calif vs any other state. The kids that are coached in the East coach to compete at the National and international level can't be that much different then the Calif kids but once you get below that level then the numbers tend to favor Calif.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 10:45am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

After playing more in Salem, Or. I am even more suprised in the apparrent playing level difference between players from Tx and the West Coast who have approximately the same rating. In warmup and drilling with players 1400-1700 it felt like I was hitting with 2000-2100 players from Tx. When playing against them it was odd in that I won some matches, but still felt totally outclassed and did not understand why they lost.

After thinking more about this I have come to the conclusion that there is a significant difference in the shot quality attempted by 1400-1800 level players in Tx than on the west coast. The west coast players seem to hit the same high level of speed and spin regardless of their level. The lower rated players that "felt" like 2000+ players had the same quality balls as much higher rated players, but have much much less consistency. In Texas it is more usual to see lower level players hitting slower and less spinny shots, but having good consistency with their shots. In addition the west coast players seem to aggressively counterattack much more than their rating counterparts from Tx who will defend or control more against attacks (for 1400-1800 rating range).

So when I warm up or drill with a west coast player the first ball that comes at me is at a much higer level than I am used to playing against since I seldom played with over 2000 players in Tx. I just can not stay in a rally with them. Of course on thinking about it more I realize the 1400-1800 player out here is missing a lot more than I would expect so the rallies do tend to be very short. If I try to slow my returns down to make for longer rallies in drills or warmup I simply get overwhelmed by even stronger shots or the ball is coming back so fast and spinny that I can not use a slower swing (have to use a block instead).

In games it is similar in that my opponents keep hitting winners when I am expecting a somewhat defensive shot. Of course they miss a lot, but what sticks in my mind is the winners they hit and the fact that nothing I do seems to get them on the defensive. On the other hand, when they do land shots I respond to the higher quality ball by being more defensive. Even when I win a point, it feels much more like they lost it than I won it.

Not sure why there is this difference. Maybe the exposure to the play of many more high level players on the coast leads players to start playing the very aggessive shots at lower rating levels. It does occur to me that in Tx you do see some of the same things in juniors invoved in training groups where they do get exposure to much higher level play than their own.

Anyway I have lots of work to do to just be able to warm-up properly with the 1500 players out here much less be able to play against them.

Mark - Whose legs are getting much stronger from all the waling back to the barriers to pick up the winners hit past me.

I think part of the answer is that there are so many great kid training programs in CA.  As kids learn the game their level rapidly increase .... so they are quite underrated.  In tournaments they knock out established higher rated players regularly.  Get beaten by some kid 200 points below you and your ratings plummets. This applies mainly to ratings up to 2200.  So ratings as a whole would be lower than the rest of the country - not just Texas.


Edited by pdotec - 08/14/2018 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 8:29pm
  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2018 at 1:09am
I've recently moved to Northern California and went to many of the local clubs and can really attest to what I would classify as a big difference between the way east coast players and west coast players play. CA game is much faster and more aggressive. The players have good service and return at my level and really good defense because they practice in group environment against same level players. Local CA players also compete in leagues religiously and hence have a very consistent approach to the game. Sometimes it seems almost entirely robotic, but it works due to high consistency. Because the local leagues are full of players, it takes a long time to win the table to advance higher and even harder to stay there without losses, so the players that get better really earn their spot. 

Comparing that with players on the east coast, I'd say east coast players are more adaptive and dynamic. They also see defensive styles a lot more and hence play them more confidently. The east coast players are also don't play everything on speed, they are craftier and play a much better all around game with better tactics.  

On the ratings side, I feel like players of same level usually have a 200 point difference - which is large in my opinion. 2000 CA typically matches 2150-2200 rated player from the east coast. I think it is one of the reasons why there are constant upsets from CA players competing in National Tournaments.
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