Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Returning slow heavy topspins
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Coaching & Tips > Coaching & Tips

Returning slow heavy topspins

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Lawson View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2016
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Returning slow heavy topspins
    Posted: 09/07/2018 at 6:25am
I often base my game on ball placing, blocking and countering attack.
A few weeks ago, I played with a both wing looper and he started attacking my chops with heavy long topspins, but I managed to overcome it with my blocks. Then he started to attack with a more slow topspins, with a lot of spin, that make the ball staying near the net or in the middle of the table, with heavy rotation on it.
I couldn't handle it. Both my blocks or my smashes (if the ball was high enough and close to the net), went out.
How do you deal with these balls?

Back to Top
vvk1 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/14/2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1767
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 6:35am
Keep the bat face more parallel to the table. When smashing, aim at the table end!

Edited by vvk1 - 09/07/2018 at 6:36am
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 12286
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 9:10am
Practice against the balls, try to put the balls into the net or on your side of the table and you will see the kind of bat angle you need, which is not something you will be used to unless your brain adjusts.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Tibhar Inca
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
AndySmith View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4214
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 9:39am
+100

Practice is vital to build confidence against these balls.  The danger is hesitating and being forced to play passively.  I think it's technically harder to play passive blocks against these balls than being active and hitting through them, but you have to get into the mindset that hitting through is the right thing to do.  You need to see these balls as weak - an opportunity to punish the opponent.
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 748
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 9:53am
Lots of great advice already. I just want to stress once again the bat angle. You need to close the angle a lot more than what feels natural, at least at first. Only way is to practice against it.

I was really bad against it 2 years ago. Luckily one of my practice partners likes those type of balls. So now I do quite well against them. I still misjudge the super slow ones sometimes and end up hitting them out, but the good news is that basically everyone else's top spin balls are now really easy to attack.
Back to Top
kakapo View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/24/2013
Location: Mordor
Status: Offline
Points: 2327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 12:19pm
I used to do this kind of havy and short topspins . It worked extremely well with the celluloid balls. Now it’s easier to attack it. You have to block it just after the rebound then the opponent is often surprised and don’t adjust for next loop.

Edited by kakapo - 09/08/2018 at 2:38am
Clipper Bengtsson, Fastarc G-1 max, spinlord Dornenglanz II, 1,2mm, Japsko Glued
Back to Top
larrytt View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/04/2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 743
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 12:32pm
If you have trouble blocking or attacking against a slow, spinny loop, then the answer isn't to do a drill where your opponent loops to your block, which is how most players practice their block. A loop against a block comes out differently than one that comes against backspin. Instead, get a coach or practice partner, and a bucket of balls, and do this drill. Your partner serves backspin, you push, partner loops slow and spinny, and you block or counter-attack. Do not continue the rally; as soon as your partner loops, he reaches for the next ball and does it again. This is a modified multiball drill that allows you lots and lots of practice against a low, spinny loop in a short period of time. And your partner gets lots and lots of practice looping against backspin. So it's a win-win drill for both. 

As to how to return or attack them, if the ball is going off the end, aim lower. That sounds simple, but isn't as easy to execute without practice as your reflexes are probably not used to aiming that low. Also, take the ball somewhat quickly off the bounce, without hesitation. Many players hesitate for a split second against slow, spinny loops, and that's all it takes to miss or pop it up. With practice, you'll find that these slow, spinny loops are easy to attack. 
-Larry Hodges
Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer
Member, USATT Hall of Fame
USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach
Butterfly Sponsored
Chair, USATT Coaching Committee
www.TableTennisCoaching.com
www.MDTTC.com
Back to Top
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 453
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 12:33pm
For me what helped with these was practicing against them and focusing on taking them as early as possible and driving forward with your forearm.

Edited by Simon_plays - 09/07/2018 at 12:33pm
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 12:46pm
here is a video showing three methods to return slow heavy topspins, Wink

Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
ChichoFicho View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/24/2009
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 4:34pm
Chop block from left to right or vice versa.
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Chop block from left to right or vice versa.


The problem is when the ball lands close to the net the ball rise to high by the time you block it
Back to Top
larrytt View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/04/2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 743
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2018 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Chop block from left to right or vice versa.


The problem is when the ball lands close to the net the ball rise to high by the time you block it

Then you are either standing too far from the table, or hesitating. Loops against backspin tend to land shorter on the table than those against block, with more spin, and so you have to practice against them specifically. See the type of training I posted about earlier, and focus on taking the ball as quickly off the bounce as you can. If you exaggerate the quickness aspect in practice, then you'll find it much easier in a real rally to react and take the ball quickly enough. 
-Larry Hodges
Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer
Member, USATT Hall of Fame
USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach
Butterfly Sponsored
Chair, USATT Coaching Committee
www.TableTennisCoaching.com
www.MDTTC.com
Back to Top
kakapo View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/24/2013
Location: Mordor
Status: Offline
Points: 2327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2018 at 2:37am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Chop block from left to right or vice versa.

Come on :)) Chop block is quite difficult to do, even against a normal loop.
An amateur player won't be very succesful doing it and with the stress of a compétition match, he won't surely do it.
Clipper Bengtsson, Fastarc G-1 max, spinlord Dornenglanz II, 1,2mm, Japsko Glued
Back to Top
kakapo View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/24/2013
Location: Mordor
Status: Offline
Points: 2327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2018 at 2:49am
By the way, your problem reminds me a very good friend who died from cancer a few years ago.

He was able to do this kind of slow and heavy loops much better than me or...doing nearly the same move...a non spin ball.
He took the ball under the level of the table so you were not able to see the contact.
It was so funny watching the opponents being bambouzled, trying to block non spin ball with a very closed angle or....to attack a loaded ball with a bad timing. 
 This was with the 38mm balls :))
Clipper Bengtsson, Fastarc G-1 max, spinlord Dornenglanz II, 1,2mm, Japsko Glued
Back to Top
dabookerman View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dabookerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2018 at 4:00pm
The video is good. I used to struggle more against these and I’ve found that my preferred approach would best be described as a hybrid of 2 & 3 from the video. It helps to be an agressive player, but if they are slow, spinny, and relatively high then “make them eat it”. A couple winning balls smacking them in the chest usually ends this tactic pretty quickly.

They’ve given you more margin for error because of the height of the ball so just close your paddle to compensate for the spin. Make sure to swing relatively hard to power through (i.e. overpower) whatever your opponent has put on the ball. A bonus too is that it sounds like the placement will allow you to move to your preferred wing. I prefer FH myself but Persson was famous for his backhand swat kills.
Photino FL

Yasaka Rising Dragon

Short Pips



Back to Top
dabookerman View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dabookerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2018 at 4:04pm
Think of it like “slapping the fool out of someone” because technically you are
Photino FL

Yasaka Rising Dragon

Short Pips



Back to Top
Lawson View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2016
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2018 at 3:49pm
Thank you all for you wise advices.
The most difficult part is to find a partner skilled enough to practice this specific drill. I need players one or to steps above my level, who would be able to do these top spins consistently.
Anyway I will try everything you told me.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2018 at 9:12pm
I don't think you can simply slap kill a heavy spin opening loop like that... If you can do that consistently then it just means it's not a high quality opening loop.

The stroke that gave me the best confidence against slow topspins is use an active counter stroke with a focus on borrowing power. I find passive blocks actually less consistent and harder to keep on the table...
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 8
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer