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Stop the Chiquita

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Fulanodetal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2018 at 6:52pm

"I know how you feel, I hardly ever watch the men, it's boring to me. The women's game is so much faster close to the table, I love it. To each their own."



There's really good good games by players of both genders. As well as boring games by players of both genders. If anyone is not watching some games according to the gender of the players that's pretty childish and closed minded.

There's ALWAYS something to be learned.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2018 at 7:18pm
I don't think it's because of their gender. At least not for me. But there is a certain trend that comes with each gender that is the deciding factor when watching. Personally I just like to appreciate the skill that it takes for men to play at a high level. When someone that plays 4 leagues below the third bundesliga can beat a female player, that plays at position 1-2 in a third bundesliga club, 3:0 then I'm just not interested in female table tennis. At least not if you don't play at the highes level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2018 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

That shot will, imho, within a few years,be relegated to history's scrapheep of outmoded shots. (Similar the slow high arcing opening topspin against a push (which players now tee off on).
 

You gotta be joking... this is the shot that was responsible for a big part in neutralising the server's advantage in table tennis (the rest being ball changes and service rule changes) and had one of the biggest impacts to the philosophy of the modern game which also made players create specific counters to it (see Ma Long vs Fan Zhendong for example). 

I bet that in 20 years if the game hasn't been changed significantly, people will still be using the chiquita extensively. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2018 at 8:30pm
I never joke.... well maybe a little! But we shall see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a23096713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2018 at 8:58pm
If you know the opponent is going to do chiquita, wouldn't that play as your advantage of your game?

 I think most important part of table tennis game is anticipation. If you can foresee what the opponent will do, you should have prepared a counter against it. Once I noticed the opponent uses it like 2 in a row. the third time I would have just counter drive it down the line of his open side. If you look at those pro players, they are all well prepare for fast counter rallies. It is really unlikely the opponent can create a shot that is too strong for fast counter.

Practice fast counter rallies would help you get used to it.  Don't let your opponent getting used to your serve too much. Give it more placement variations would help.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2018 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by a23096713 a23096713 wrote:

If you know the opponent is going to do chiquita, wouldn't that play as your advantage of your game?

 I think most important part of table tennis game is anticipation. If you can foresee what the opponent will do, you should have prepared a counter against it. Once I noticed the opponent uses it like 2 in a row. the third time I would have just counter drive it down the line of his open side. If you look at those pro players, they are all well prepare for fast counter rallies. It is really unlikely the opponent can create a shot that is too strong for fast counter.
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Practice fast counter rallies would help you get used to it.  Don't let your opponent getting used to your serve too much. Give it more placement variations would help.</span>
<h1>
</h1>


That only works if your opponent doesn't vary the chiquita spin or placement.

With the chiquita it's like an opening loop, you have a wide choice of placement, spin, speed to confuse your opponent. The solution of course is to force more mistakes from the chiquita player and lower the quality of the chiquita through good service variation so that you can counterattack effectively. Something like wide-angle BH serves followed by a counter to the open FH side or FH short, then counter to the deep BH, coupled with fast long serves to the deep BH.

I believe it was the chiquita which brought back quality fast long serves into the game as a valid counter tactic. In the past these serves would have been punished decisively by a quick FH loop, whereas chiquita players often can only manage a slow spinny BH loop off the bounce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2018 at 11:17am
Typically I serve wide to their FH. Then when they step around to use do their BH flip I have a good chance to get them out of position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2018 at 12:19pm
Ok, so after reading this post, I have started practicing the Xu Xin forehand strawberry flick and I am enjoying it and making good progress. TongueBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2018 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

That shot will, imho, within a few years,be relegated to history's scrapheep of outmoded shots. (Similar the slow high arcing opening topspin against a push (which players now tee off on).
 

You gotta be joking... this is the shot that was responsible for a big part in neutralising the server's advantage in table tennis (the rest being ball changes and service rule changes) and had one of the biggest impacts to the philosophy of the <span style="display: inline !imant; : none; : transparent; color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.8px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">modern game which also made players create specific counters to it (see Ma Long vs Fan Zhendong for example). </span>
<span style="display: inline !imant; : none; : transparent; color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.8px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
</span>
<span style="display: inline !imant; : none; : transparent; color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.8px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">I bet that in 20 years if the game hasn't been changed significantly, people will still be using the chiquita extensively. </span>


I think he meant the strawberry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2018 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

That shot will, imho, within a few years,be relegated to history's scrapheep of outmoded shots. (Similar the slow high arcing opening topspin against a push (which players now tee off on).

Are you sure?

The reason that the chiquita is effective now, is the same reason that the slow high arcing opening topspin against a push is not.

It's the plastic ball. 
It spins less.

This which is why the chiquita is easy now, yet was difficult with celluloid.

With the celluloid ball, which spun more, those opening high spin high arc balls were safe, because of how much spin they had.

The materials fundamentally changed the gameplay.

So unless they drastically change the ball again, expect to continue to see the chiquita against underspin serves.

Because it's an easy way to take control of the point early or at worst, generate safe topspin and try and use placement to weaken your opponent.
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