Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Li Sun: It's Time to Shift Our Thinking of Ito
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Li Sun: It's Time to Shift Our Thinking of Ito

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Li Sun: It's Time to Shift Our Thinking of Ito
    Posted: 11/04/2018 at 4:42pm
Starting this thread to get them all in one place since they sink quickly in the Swedish Open thread and who wants to dig through the entire thread.











Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
ZingyDNA View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2316
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2018 at 9:21pm
Li Sun thinks Ito's wins are much more of a real deal than Miu's. I'm thinking about the same..
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2018 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Li Sun thinks Ito's wins are much more of a real deal than Miu's. I'm thinking about the same..
ya, I think so too. However, the successful rate of Ito's style is as same as RYU (JPEN) style. Ito's coach needs to find a way to make her peak at WTTC or oly. It is useless to win world tour.
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 7:55am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
AndySmith View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4249
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Li Sun thinks Ito's wins are much more of a real deal than Miu's. I'm thinking about the same..
ya, I think so too. However, the successful rate of Ito's style is as same as RYU (JPEN) style. Ito's coach needs to find a way to make her peak at WTTC or oly. It is useless to win world tour.

Peaking for events is a dark art.  JNT seems to have invested heavily in back-office analysis, so hopefully they've got a plan in place for it.

On a finer scale - Ito's style has always been high-risk to me.  If she's slightly off form, it goes badly and the games are over very quickly through accumulation of errors.  Being able to adapt during each match is key, and Sweden looked to show a massive improvement (or it was a one-off, who can say for sure?)  Against DN, the first few games looked to be almost sacrificed towards getting Ito into a good rhythm.  Once she hit that rhythm, and was hitting as well as she was, DN had no answers.  It was amazing to watch.

Getting Ito into that zone as quickly as possible against a wide variety of opponents is the key IMO.  In the final she was pretty much there from the off, although you could say that Zhu allowed that to happen by being too passive initially as well.
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Third planet to the Sun
Status: Offline
Points: 2427
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 10:20am
BETTER SPINNIER BALLS IS TO COME FROM DHS.   

You shall see a revamped " DHS olympic ball" version by the year 2020.   Researching work is on, DHS now searching for a better plastic formula.
The new ball brands, YOOLA TIBHAR and much more, they all playing differently, you know. Plastic material composition does got improved from brand to brand.    And the best spinny ball will be marked as DHS 40D+.   ITTF can't prevent DHS from such a scam on the balls.

   Be aware, china CNT players known to test each new samples of plastic balls as soon as those got ITTF approval, so as to advice DHS on the best spinny/playable balls.    Olympic DHS balls is going to help CHINA to win the gold in Tokyo2020.


   
Back to Top
troubadour View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 08/14/2018
Location: Ryazan
Status: Offline
Points: 131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 10:42am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

BETTER SPINNIER BALLS IS TO COME FROM DHS.   

You shall see a revamped " DHS olympic ball" version by the year 2020.   Researching work is on, DHS now searching for a better plastic formula.
The new ball brands, YOOLA TIBHAR and much more, they all playing differently, you know. Plastic material composition does got improved from brand to brand.    And the best spinny ball will be marked as DHS 40D+.   ITTF can't prevent DHS from such a scam on the balls.

   Be aware, china CNT players known to test each new samples of plastic balls as soon as those got ITTF approval, so as to advice DHS on the best spinny/playable balls.    Olympic DHS balls is going to help CHINA to win the gold in Tokyo2020.


   
Has anyone ever told you you make us sleepy !, man we all yawn a lot, but it's what it is , they say I should be positive, yeah I'll be positive that your "inspirations" will keep coming, and we'll get a lot of much needed sleep
How many eyes have seen their dreams
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 320
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

   BETTER SPINNIER BALLS IS TO COME FROM DHS.   

You shall see a revamped " DHS olympic ball" version by the year 2020.   Researching work is on, DHS now searching for a better plastic formula.
The new ball brands, YOOLA TIBHAR and much more, they all playing differently, you know. Plastic material composition does got improved from brand to brand.    And the best spinny ball will be marked as DHS 40D+.   ITTF can't prevent DHS from such a scam on the balls.

   Be aware, china CNT players known to test each new samples of plastic balls as soon as those got ITTF approval, so as to advice DHS on the best spinny/playable balls.    Olympic DHS balls is going to help CHINA to win the gold in Tokyo2020.


   


Why dont you take yoyr bitterness to a psychiatrist?.you cant stop complaining about the chinese.
Its a sad life you have
Back to Top
patwhall View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/08/2012
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 133
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patwhall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

   BETTER SPINNIER BALLS IS TO COME FROM DHS.   

You shall see a revamped " DHS olympic ball" version by the year 2020.   Researching work is on, DHS now searching for a better plastic formula.
The new ball brands, YOOLA TIBHAR and much more, they all playing differently, you know. Plastic material composition does got improved from brand to brand.    And the best spinny ball will be marked as DHS 40D+.   ITTF can't prevent DHS from such a scam on the balls.

   Be aware, china CNT players known to test each new samples of plastic balls as soon as those got ITTF approval, so as to advice DHS on the best spinny/playable balls.    Olympic DHS balls is going to help CHINA to win the gold in Tokyo2020.


   


Why dont you take yoyr bitterness to a psychiatrist?.you cant stop complaining about the chinese.
Its a sad life you have

Just ignore him, he posts lots of senseless posts and doesn't reply anyway.  
DHS W997, H3 BS, FX-P
Back to Top
Tassie52 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/09/2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by patwhall patwhall wrote:

Just ignore him, he posts lots of senseless posts and doesn't reply anyway.  


At Igor's end:


Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Peaking for events is a dark art.  JNT seems to have invested heavily in back-office analysis, so hopefully they've got a plan in place for it.

On a finer scale - Ito's style has always been high-risk to me.  If she's slightly off form, it goes badly and the games are over very quickly through accumulation of errors.  Being able to adapt during each match is key, and Sweden looked to show a massive improvement (or it was a one-off, who can say for sure?)  Against DN, the first few games looked to be almost sacrificed towards getting Ito into a good rhythm.  Once she hit that rhythm, and was hitting as well as she was, DN had no answers.  It was amazing to watch.

Getting Ito into that zone as quickly as possible against a wide variety of opponents is the key IMO.  In the final she was pretty much there from the off, although you could say that Zhu allowed that to happen by being too passive initially as well.
I don't think Zhu played passive; she was just not as good as DN / LSW.
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
FruitLoop View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/20/2018
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 119
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 7:31pm
I find Igor's posts entertaining. Just picture a drink Russian.
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2018 at 6:29am
"We trail Japan in innovation. Losing is no accident. The time has come for women’s table tennis to reform" said Yin Xiao in an interview 2 days ago.

For those unfamiliar, Yin Xiao is a former CNT coach, LGL, KLH and ZJK were once under his guidance and he helped ZJK get back to the CNT after being sent back to the provincial team.



http://sports.qq.com/a/20181105/002086.htm
Quote “朱雨玲输给伊藤美诚的这场比赛输得惨,出乎我意料之外。”
“就这场球来说,我们技术是下风,对伊藤美诚新技术我们不适应。反观朱雨玲的球比较平淡,前三板处于下风 ,接发球没有威胁,相持没有质量,正反手进攻没有明显的得分手段。”
“日本女队在对阵我们的比赛中自信心增强了,而因为这一、两年我们在大赛中没有丢掉冠军,整体上还有微弱优势,导致我们危机意识不强。我们教练队伍创新能力在下降,训练方法、手段还相对陈旧,训练质量不是很高。我们采用的训练方法其实如今对手已经掌握,她们还在不断创新,尤其是日本,创新已经走到了前边,技术打法有新东西。”
如今国乒在教练员分配上,还和十几年前一样一个教练管着4、5个队员;反观日乒,主力队员都是好几个教练围着,加上充足的科研和后勤保障人员,如今的崛起绝非一朝一夕。
“我们应该看到危机的严峻性,到了非得动刀子进行改革了,训练手段、技术打法中都要要有创新的东西。现在出现问题并非是坏事,还不到世锦赛和奥运会这样最关键的时刻,但再不动就真的来不及了。”

"The match where Zhu Yuling lost to Ito was terrible. It was beyond my expectation."

"As far as this match is concerned, our techniques are at a disadvantage. We couldn't adapt to Ito's new techniques. In contrast, Zhu Yuling's game is relatively dull. The 3rd ball is trailing. There is no threat in receving. There is no quality in the rally. There's no obvious way to score from either FH or BH."

"The Japanese women's team has gained more self-confidence in the game against us. Because we have not dropped the championship in the majors for the last 2 years, there is still a slight advantage in the overall situation, which has caused us to be less aware of the crisis. The capability of our coaching team in innovating is in decline. The training methods and means are still relatively old, and the training quality is not very high. Our training methods have already been mastered by the opponents. They are still innovating, especially in Japan. They've come to the forefront in innovation, and there are new things in the techniques.”

Nowadays, the distribution of coaches within the CNT is still the same as a decade ago, with a coach assigned 4 or 5 players. In contrast, the main players for the JNT are surrounded by several coaches, plus ample scientific research and logistics support personnel. Their rise is by no means overnight.

"We should see the seriousness of the crisis. It's high time we carried out reforms. We have to innovate the training methods and technical styles. It is not a bad thing for problems to crop up now, seeing it is not the most critical moment like the World Championships and the Olympic Games. However, it’d be too late if we don't make a move now."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yin Xiao actually warned the CNT in another interview during the Asian Games, where Japan opted not to send their best players.

http://static.cdsb.com/micropub/Articles/201808/ff8b45dfe8465eafa1d873ae7d3dabd4.html
Quote 成都商报:这次国家乒乓球队顾问组到成都调研对国家队提出了哪些意见和建议?
尹霄:因为这一次参赛我们主要以年轻运动员为主,所以对运动员心理上的掌握非常重要。心理问题是年轻运动员最容易出现的问题,面对大赛压力,年轻运动员应该怎样处理好是关键。

从技战术方面讲,现在我们跟日本队、韩国队的差距并不大,优势很小。由于年轻没有什么经验,如果心理上再出现问题是最容易“翻船”的。这次日本队依然是我们的主要对手,但从阵容上看,韩国队全部派出了主力,应该还要强一点。

成都商报:近两年,日本队的成绩进步明显,这是日本队提高太快还是我们自身的原因?
尹霄:日本队把中国队的技战术、训练方法都“拿过去”后,还很虚心地学习。他们学得很快,并且在学习的基础上还有创新,目前已经初见成效了。现在是我们会的日本队、韩国队都会,彼此根本没有秘密可言。

日本队的创新在前三板、速度及落点上的运用表现得就特别明显。特别是在速度上,现在日本队的进攻型球员在每个环节的处理上,好像都比我们快一些,速度上已经优于我们。这应该是他们的指导思想在指引着他们朝这个方向训练。

虽然目前看来他们的火候还没到,但已有了很明确的方向。如果我们现在还没有危机感,还是按部就班地练过去的东西,没有创新不发展的话,若干年以后我们在技术方面有可能还会落后于对手。

成都商报:乒乓球运动接下来会向什么方向发展?
尹霄:我认为是向着技术更全面更精细这个方向发展,还有就是对身体素质的要求还要增强。

我们并不需要像日本队一样,一味追求“快”,对打法上的要求我们是有弹性的。我们是要有节奏变化的,可快可慢,有快有慢,以快为主,快慢结合。我觉得这些还是我们领先之处。

成都商报:对于对手的冲击和规则、器材的改变,我们现在正在如何调整?
尹霄:我们现在还是主要致力于对塑料球(新球)规律的研究。但是从技战术来看,我们还没有提出特别明确的方向。随着现在的比赛用球变大了,变重了,我们目前还是提出了一些需要加强身体素质方面的指导思想,这也正是我们存在的危机感。

Chengdu Business Daily: What advice and suggestions did the National Table Tennis Team Advisory Group make?
Yin Xiao: Because this time we mainly focus on young athletes, it is very important for the athletes to handle the mentality. Psychological problems are the most common problems for young athletes. In the face of pressure, how young athletes should handle them is the key.

From the technical and tactical point of view, the edge we have over Japan and South Korea is small. Since young people have no experience, it is easiest to get “overthrown” if there is a psychological problem. This time the Japanese team is still our main opponent, but from the lineup, the South Korean team has all sent the main players, and hence should be stronger.

Chengdu Business Daily: In the past two years, the performance of Japan has improved significantly. Is it because the Japanese team is improving too fast or the problem is in ourselves?
Yin Xiao: After the Japanese team "took" the Chinese team's techniques, tactics and training methods, they are learning very humbly. They learn very quickly, and there is innovation on top of that. It has already begun to bear fruit. Now, what we know, Japan and South Korea know as well. There is no secret at all.

Japan's innovation lies 3rd ball, speed and placement. The use of these is particularly prominent. Especially in terms of speed, the Japanese team's offensive players now seem to be faster than us in every aspect of the process, and the speed is better than us. This should be their guiding ideology guiding them to train in this direction.[Note: Yin Xiao is right here. Various JTTA coaches have mentioned speed is their central philosophy since they aren't as big and strong physically.]

Even though it seems that their mastering has not yet matured, there is a clear direction. If we don't have a sense of crisis right now, or if we practice the past in a step-by-step manner, without innovation or development, we may still lag behind our opponents in techniques in the years to come.

Chengdu Business Daily: In what direction will table tennis advance?
Yin Xiao: I think it is developing in the direction of more comprehensive and finer techniques, and there is also a need for stronger physical fitness.

We don't need to pursue "fast" like Japan. We are flexible in the demands of style. We must have pace changes, which could speed up or slow down, could be fast and slow, focus on being fast, and fast and slow combined. I think these are edges we have.

Chengdu Business Daily: How are we adapting to the impact of opponents and changes in rules and equipment?
Yin Xiao: We are still mainly focusing on the study of the behavior of plastic balls. However, from the perspective of technical and tactical skills, we have not yet proposed a particularly clear direction. With the current ball becoming bigger and heavier, we have proposed some guiding ideas, say the need to strengthen our physical fitness. This is also the sense of crisis we have.

Edited by zeio - 11/07/2018 at 6:31am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.186 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer