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What pips does Mima use?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2018 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

She has no power, only speed.
Wrong. 
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Power is the rate at which work is done. It is the work/time ratio. Mathematically, it is computed using the following equation.

Power = Work / time

Because time is a factor in the calculation of power, it is precisely her speed which gives her power.  The work of hitting the ball is performed over a shorter period of time (i.e. she's faster, she has more speed), therefore her power is greater than someone who does the same amount of work but takes longer to do it.  You may be more correct to say she has less strength, given that the ability to lift a weight is not dependent upon speed.

I think what we were looking at in Mima Ito's matches was a clear demonstration that she hits the ball harder than her opponents.  There were any number of points where she just blasted the ball past them before they could react - a clear demonstration of her "power".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trumpet_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2018 at 7:49pm
Mima Ito's reliance on flat hitting raises the risk that her shot will miss the table, but if she has the height on the ball to allow a straight smash, the linear speed of the ball will be faster than that of a loop.  The amazing thing is that she has become so accurate and quick with her flat hit shots that she doesn't need to loop as often.  Chinese top-spinners loop and aren't prepared for Ito's approach, it seems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2018 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Yes I’ve seen the reference to Moristo, but right from the start when she hits one to Zhe’s FH, Zhu hits it in the bottom of the net like it was medium or long pips. Many times when she attacked with it Zhu returns it in the bottom of the net like she is clueless. A Chinese coach I regularly even said it looks like medium or long pips. Short pips just don’t cause that much disruption normally.


But I doubt that a top level Chinese player will have any trouble with spin reversal even from frictionless long pips... It has to be Ito's speed and placement.

That being said I always thought that Moristo being a short pip acts much closer to a medium pip rather then inverted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2018 at 9:15pm
   Deng Yaping, .. Mima's immediate predecessor.

It was Deng Yaping's overwhelming dominance throughout 90s, that suggested Nipponese coaches the idea of Short Pips being the best choice for Mimo Ito's special benefits.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 12:23am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

    Deng Yaping, .. Mima's immediate predecessor.

It was Deng Yaping's overwhelming dominance throughout 90s, that suggested Nipponese coaches the idea of Short Pips being the best choice for Mimo Ito's special benefits.   


I would assume the immediate predecessor is Ai Fukuhara... 😆

Deng played with long pip backhand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 1:37am
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

    Deng Yaping, .. Mima's immediate predecessor.

It was Deng Yaping's overwhelming dominance throughout 90s, that suggested Nipponese coaches the idea of Short Pips being the best choice for Mimo Ito's special benefits.   


I would assume the immediate predecessor is Ai Fukuhara... 😆

Deng played with long pip backhand



She said that she was influenced by wang tao
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 1:48am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Ito uses Moristo SP since forever. She might have changed recently but I doubt it. There seem to be no change in her BH technique.
Why can she create so much difficulty for her opponents? It's because of her skills. It's not some magical rubber.

She changed to Moristo SP AX (came out late month), may be it helped Wink


Are you sure?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 4:05am
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Yes I’ve seen the reference to Moristo, but right from the start when she hits one to Zhe’s FH, Zhu hits it in the bottom of the net like it was medium or long pips. Many times when she attacked with it Zhu returns it in the bottom of the net like she is clueless. A Chinese coach I regularly even said it looks like medium or long pips. Short pips just don’t cause that much disruption normally.


But I doubt that a top level Chinese player will have any trouble with spin reversal even from frictionless long pips... It has to be Ito's speed and placement.

That being said I always thought that Moristo being a short pip acts much closer to a medium pip rather then inverted

That's why people differentiate 正貼(shortpips), 生膠(raw pips), and 半長膠(medium pips) in China. Moristo SP falls under the type of raw pips. Raw pips produces less spin but is comparable in speed to shortpips, but with additional 下沉(sinking) effect.

Edited by zeio - 11/09/2018 at 4:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 7:38am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Yes I’ve seen the reference to Moristo, but right from the start when she hits one to Zhe’s FH, Zhu hits it in the bottom of the net like it was medium or long pips. Many times when she attacked with it Zhu returns it in the bottom of the net like she is clueless. A Chinese coach I regularly even said it looks like medium or long pips. Short pips just don’t cause that much disruption normally.


But I doubt that a top level Chinese player will have any trouble with spin reversal even from frictionless long pips... It has to be Ito's speed and placement.

That being said I always thought that Moristo being a short pip acts much closer to a medium pip rather then inverted

That's why people differentiate 正貼(shortpips), 生膠(raw pips), and 半長膠(medium pips) in China. Moristo SP falls under the type of raw pips. Raw pips produces less spin but is comparable in speed to shortpips, but with additional 下沉(sinking) effect.

Thanks for the comment.  I'm not confident about this analysis of the Chinese perspective as it relates to Ito's Moristo rubber and its usage.  Out-of-the-package Moristo is not comparable to short pips in speed.  Ito's backhand certainly is comparable in speed to short pips, which suggests a specialize rubber sheet.  Out-of-the-package Moristo does have the quality of "additional (sinking) effect" of what we and the ITTF refers to as a "long" pimples characteristic.

It is not clear from your contribution the playing attributes of medium pips from the Chinese perspective.

Thanks,
Donn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 11:26am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Yes I’ve seen the reference to Moristo, but right from the start when she hits one to Zhe’s FH, Zhu hits it in the bottom of the net like it was medium or long pips. Many times when she attacked with it Zhu returns it in the bottom of the net like she is clueless. A Chinese coach I regularly even said it looks like medium or long pips. Short pips just don’t cause that much disruption normally.


But I doubt that a top level Chinese player will have any trouble with spin reversal even from frictionless long pips... It has to be Ito's speed and placement.

That being said I always thought that Moristo being a short pip acts much closer to a medium pip rather then inverted

That's why people differentiate 正貼(shortpips), 生膠(raw pips), and 半長膠(medium pips) in China. Moristo SP falls under the type of raw pips. Raw pips produces less spin but is comparable in speed to shortpips, but with additional 下沉(sinking) effect.


<font size="3" color="#0033ff">Thanks for the comment.  I'm not confident about this analysis of the Chinese perspective as it relates to Ito's Moristo rubber and its usage.  Out-of-the-package Moristo is not comparable to short pips in speed.  Ito's backhand certainly is comparable in speed to short pips, which suggests a specialize rubber sheet.  Out-of-the-package Moristo does have the quality of "additional (sinking) effect" of what we and the ITTF refers to as a "long" pimples characteristic.
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">It is not clear from your contribution the playing attributes of medium pips from the Chinese perspective.
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">Thanks,


The Chinese classification of raw and “cooked” pips refers more to the manufacturing process of the top sheet rubber (difference being heat treatment) so it is less about playing characteristic. I mean in general the raw pips have less grip and more sink then the ‘cooked’ ones but you can find a huge variation of playing characteristics with in each category, for example both TSP Spectol and 729 563 are both raw pips however they play very very differently and it is the same with Superspinpips and Baxter F1A both being ‘cooked’ pips.

I am not sure why you would think Moristo does not have comparable shortpip speed because it is plenty fast(but it is also true that Ito may be using a special version not available on the market)... Moriso is a raw pip with short pip length, to me it plays like a less spinny spectol with more sink.
The sink with the right placement and speed of return could totally cause the opponent to loop the ball into the net.

Also i am sure that the sink is more often referred to as a short or medium pip effect not a long pip effect. Long pips reverses/ continues the spin while most of the time shortpip takes off the spin which causes the sinking effect



Edited by JohnnyChop - 11/09/2018 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 11:44am
Originally posted by trumpet_guy trumpet_guy wrote:


Mima Ito's reliance on flat hitting raises the risk that her shot will miss the table, but if she has the height on the ball to allow a straight smash, the linear speed of the ball will be faster than that of a loop.  The amazing thing is that she has become so accurate and quick with her flat hit shots that she doesn't need to loop as often.  Chinese top-spinners loop and aren't prepared for Ito's approach, it seems.


Ito has to flat hit on the BH because she is a shortpip player...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 12:08pm
Deleted.  Wrong thread.

Edited by skip3119 - 11/09/2018 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathanso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 3:10pm
Moristo SP AX is brand new to the market and few retailers appear to have it yet. It wouldn't surprise me if Ito was one of the first in the world to get it, and if she's Nittaku-sponsored she may have even had a part in its development.

As an SP/MP player myself who campaigned LP for many years, I saw nothing inconsistent with her play in Sweden last week to make me think she was using anything but a fast, spinny SP on her backhand. What's more surprising is how she successfully uses her inverted like an SP on the forehand, flat-hitting through her opponents' loops with devastating success.

Could this be the rise of a new playing style, and possibly an SP resurrection?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 3:52pm
 

Edited by pingpungpeng - 11/09/2018 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by nathanso nathanso wrote:

Moristo SP AX is brand new to the market and few retailers appear to have it yet. It wouldn't surprise me if Ito was one of the first in the world to get it, and if she's Nittaku-sponsored she may have even had a part in its development.

As an SP/MP player myself who campaigned LP for many years, I saw nothing inconsistent with her play in Sweden last week to make me think she was using anything but a fast, spinny SP on her backhand. What's more surprising is how she successfully uses her inverted like an SP on the forehand, flat-hitting through her opponents' loops with devastating success.

Could this be the rise of a new playing style, and possibly an SP resurrection?!


Still have no info.if ito is using AX. Yes quick close attack is succesful
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2018 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by nathanso nathanso wrote:

Moristo SP AX is brand new to the market and few retailers appear to have it yet. It wouldn't surprise me if Ito was one of the first in the world to get it, and if she's Nittaku-sponsored she may have even had a part in its development.

As an SP/MP player myself who campaigned LP for many years, I saw nothing inconsistent with her play in Sweden last week to make me think she was using anything but a fast, spinny SP on her backhand. What's more surprising is how she successfully uses her inverted like an SP on the forehand, flat-hitting through her opponents' loops with devastating success.

Could this be the rise of a new playing style, and possibly an SP resurrection?!


Still have no info.if ito is using AX. Yes quick close attack is succesful

http://5b0988e595225.cdn.sohucs.com/images/20181104/33d83108dc9b4a20a7b61f1fae34ab9a.jpeg

This was from last week. Clearly she is sill using Moristo SP. Interesting to note that she experimented with using the Stiga Nostalgic earlier this year, but stuck with the Acoustic Carbon. 
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