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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..


Great idea.


Agreed, this is at the least innovative thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..


Great idea.


Agreed, this is at the least innovative thinking.
yes, as long as you live in a region that has lots of tournaments. It doesn’t do anything if you happen to live say in Montana, Wyoming either of the Dakotas where the nearest tournament might 600-1000 miles away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..


Great idea.


Agreed, this is at the least innovative thinking.
I disagree.  Although it might increase participation, it's really going about things the wrong way.  Let's say someone played great in the past (maybe even distant past), but now is sucking for whatever reason.  He/She may feel their rating would be completely inaccurate especially if used for seeding and would also be a disservice to anyone they play.  Who cares if you have a bad tournament?  Make it up in the next one.  Just focus on getting better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..

Great idea.


I think this is also a great idea.  This would also combat sandbagging to some extent. 

When I was younger, I would drive 1-way 5 hours to play in a tournament then drive home.  Unfortunately I lost around 40+ points each time I did this from fatigue and not being warmed up properly.  Although I would always get the points back in the next "local" tournament I played, I will never do this again.  I would get chewed out by my coach and have to listen to unpleasant commentary from other people.  In a few different sports I have competed in, I would travel, compete and go home and not have to worry about the conditions of the event or how tired I was.  I just played.  The current rating system in TT does not encourage participation at all. 

I am also not a fan of the re-adjustment process. It seems like it is arbitrarily enforced at times and encourages strategic defaulting.  But I will comment more on that later. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 5:52pm
Best X results of your last Y would be better.

USGA golf handicaps are based on the best 10 out of the last 20 rounds. This tries to prevent the handicap bandits/sandbaggers of the sport from blatantly manipulating their handicaps before big tournaments.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..

Great idea.

As long as you don't care about rating inflation. Suddenly everyone is 100-200 points higher and happy as a clam. USATT might be genuinely happy, though, with increased participation, but watch out for discussions here on how "today's 2000 is really 1850 of old". Ermm 

I'm not that psyched about this idea, but not vehemently opposed either - I accepted rating volatility and their general insignificance as a fact of life, so don't obsess over them much. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I agree that on the lower levels the point difference doesn't matter as much in training. But at a certain point a hundred point difference is huge. The quality differences are just too big.

Back to the rating points topic. Something I just don't get, are people that try to keep their rating by not playing. In Germany it would at least make sense, because the rating has an influence on the position and team you play in. But even there it is absolutely stupid, as it is mostly done in lower leagues where it doesn't matter.
But in the US it just doesn't make any sense to me at all. You don't have a league system which takes into account rating points. Not playing because they want to keep their points is pretty pathetic. Those people are just lying to themselves. If you have a higher rating and the people in a tournament have a much lower rating, then play. If you really deserve the points you have, then you shouldn't have a problem winning against them. Also rating points lose their value if so many people just try to hold on to rating points. What is going on in their head? "Yeah I got a 2100 rating so I'm not playing, because I could lose points", great you have 2100 points. That doesn't mean anything. Seriously those types of people are just pitiful in my opinion.


Agreed but it is common. There are many many gamers out there who refuse to play ranked or ladder matches online because they are scared to lose rating points. So much so the games companies spend a lot of time optimising the online play to encourage these players in terms of categorising etc. And this is where they are totally anonymous represented by a screenname! It's insane but common.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 1:20am
I know players who have played for decades and reached a certain level, then are happy to not compete in tourneys for a while so they can enjoy their rating a while.

That is not the way I roll, but I won't beat down anyone wanting to enjoy fruits of labor for a short sweet while.

However, the urge to compete will come back... and at the moment of tourney competition, the TT competition may biatch slap the dude upside the face with a healthy dose of reality and bring the rating crashing down.

Hopefully dude in such a situation will have fighting sprit to fight on.
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When I get an exceptionally high (for me) rating, I want to play again quickly to show that my skill level matches my rating.  If I have a poor tournament I also want to play again to show that I'm really not that bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 7:30am
How about attaching a win-loss record to one's rating? The W-L could be for the calendar year or from last Nationals, whatever. This might encourage one to enter his lowest eligible rating event (instead of skipping) to boost his W-L record. It also exposes rating protectors so that lower rated players don't have to feel like inferior humans. A possible comeback for the lower rated one -  "You're rating is higher than mine but you're 2-15 this year. At least I have a winning record and compete with integrity!"  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 7:41am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

How about attaching a win-loss record to one's rating? The W-L could be for the calendar year or from last Nationals, whatever. This might encourage one to enter his lowest eligible rating event (instead of skipping) to boost his W-L record. It also exposes rating protectors so that lower rated players don't have to feel like inferior humans. A possible comeback for the lower rated one -  "You're rating is higher than mine but you're 2-15 this year. At least I have a winning record and compete with integrity!"  

+1 

I think that's how players in a league system usually describe themselves: "I'm playing in a 2nd division and this year I have 63% win percentage, compared to 45% last season".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..


Great idea.


Agreed, this is at the least innovative thinking.
yes, as long as you live in a region that has lots of tournaments. It doesn’t do anything if you happen to live say in Montana, Wyoming either of the Dakotas where the nearest tournament might 600-1000 miles away.

Well, the system would still not drop your rating if you only have 2 tournaments.. If you play less than 5 tournaments, all your tournaments count towards ratings. So, if you only play one tournament per year, whatever points you gain or lose will stay.  The only "opportunity" that this system would give you is that you have free shots at points after you already played points with no fear of dropping points at a bad tournament.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:01am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..

Great idea.

As long as you don't care about rating inflation. Suddenly everyone is 100-200 points higher and happy as a clam. USATT might be genuinely happy, though, with increased participation, but watch out for discussions here on how "today's 2000 is really 1850 of old". Ermm 

I'm not that psyched about this idea, but not vehemently opposed either - I accepted rating volatility and their general insignificance as a fact of life, so don't obsess over them much. 
Ratings would probably increase but I doubt that it would be by a lot. I think that the proposed system would actually reduce rating adjustments. For example, I had tournaments where I dropped close to 100 points.. Often, one or 2 tournaments later, I get an adjustment and gain points back. My level didn't really drop 100 points in that tournament.. I rather had bad luck or a bad draw.. If you only use the best x tournaments PER YEAR for ratings, your rating will be more consistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:07am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

How about attaching a win-loss record to one's rating? The W-L could be for the calendar year or from last Nationals, whatever. This might encourage one to enter his lowest eligible rating event (instead of skipping) to boost his W-L record. It also exposes rating protectors so that lower rated players don't have to feel like inferior humans. A possible comeback for the lower rated one -  "You're rating is higher than mine but you're 2-15 this year. At least I have a winning record and compete with integrity!"  

I don't think that a win/loss rating indicates performance.. Look at our friend Rich DeWitt.. He only plays 1 or 2 events that he has the chance to win. So, his win/loss ratio will be exceptional compared to a player who enters all the events.. Let's say that I enter U2200, U2350, U2500 and OPEN
I win 6 matches in the U2200, 3 in the U2350 and 1 in the U2500 but lose 1 in the U2200, 1 in the U2350, 2 in the U2500 and 3 in the Open, my win/loss ratio is now 10:7
Now, let's say that Rich plays the same tournament and only plays the U2200. He also wins 6 matches and loses one.. His ratio is 6:1 while mine is 10:7.. His may have been 10:7 too if he had played all the events.. So, in the end, those players only playing the lowest eligible event will do fantastic if the win/loss is considered and those entering all events will do horrible. It is in no way an indication of performance. It just shows that you played a ton of lower rated players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

...

 I think that the proposed system would actually reduce rating adjustments. For example, I had tournaments where I dropped close to 100 points.. Often, one or 2 tournaments later, I get an adjustment and gain points back. My level didn't really drop 100 points in that tournament.. I rather had bad luck or a bad draw.. If you only use the best x tournaments PER YEAR for ratings, your rating will be more consistent.

Agree 100% - that's a very good point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:15am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Here is what I would do to encourage participation.. Every player's rating will be calculated based on the best 5 tournaments. So, only your  best 5 tournaments count for your ratings.. 

So, if you play at least a minimum of x amount of tournaments, you don't have to worry about having a bad one so that you'd lose your ratings as only your best 5 tournaments count for ratings..


Great idea.


Agreed, this is at the least innovative thinking.
I disagree.  Although it might increase participation, it's really going about things the wrong way.  Let's say someone played great in the past (maybe even distant past), but now is sucking for whatever reason.  He/She may feel their rating would be completely inaccurate especially if used for seeding and would also be a disservice to anyone they play.  Who cares if you have a bad tournament?  Make it up in the next one.  Just focus on getting better.
Everyone has a bad tournament or 2 from time to time. This does not indicate that they are playing worse. If you look at my rating, I always bounce back when I have really bad tournaments. My level didn't drop just because I had a bad tournament. Sometimes I had back to back tournaments where I lost 50+ points in one and gained 50+ points back in another one.. Was I a 50 points worse player in the previous one or did I just have a bad draw, bad luck or maybe I didn't sleep well??

Over the last 10 years, I have peaked at 2309 and dropped as low as low 2000's but most of the time, I played at my average level of mid 2100's. I always end up bouncing back to that level..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/06/2018 at 8:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

How about attaching a win-loss record to one's rating? The W-L could be for the calendar year or from last Nationals, whatever. This might encourage one to enter his lowest eligible rating event (instead of skipping) to boost his W-L record. It also exposes rating protectors so that lower rated players don't have to feel like inferior humans. A possible comeback for the lower rated one -  "You're rating is higher than mine but you're 2-15 this year. At least I have a winning record and compete with integrity!"  

I don't think that a win/loss rating indicates performance.. Look at our friend Rich DeWitt.. He only plays 1 or 2 events that he has the chance to win. So, his win/loss ratio will be exceptional compared to a player who enters all the events.. Let's say that I enter U2200, U2350, U2500 and OPEN
I win 6 matches in the U2200, 3 in the U2350 and 1 in the U2500 but lose 1 in the U2200, 1 in the U2350, 2 in the U2500 and 3 in the Open, my win/loss ratio is now 10:7
Now, let's say that Rich plays the same tournament and only plays the U2200. He also wins 6 matches and loses one.. His ratio is 6:1 while mine is 10:7.. His may have been 10:7 too if he had played all the events.. So, in the end, those players only playing the lowest eligible event will do fantastic if the win/loss is considered and those entering all events will do horrible. It is in no way an indication of performance. It just shows that you played a ton of lower rated players.

Right, but I also know at least one guy who has a perfect 0-6 record in every tournament he enters, since he only plays two highest events. This allows him to keep his 'high' rating, since he loses 1-2 points at most per tournament, but I'm yet to see him win a game, forget about a match. 

I think 'heavyspin' had this use case in mind with his proposal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:18am
I've lost track of the underlying problem this thread is trying to solve. If it's about getting more participation in tournaments, ratings is the wrong place to look. Make them less expensive and more convenient and more people will play. In our system that usually means unsanctioned.

It works for everything else, every business in the world, why not for TT in america?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:19am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

How about attaching a win-loss record to one's rating? The W-L could be for the calendar year or from last Nationals, whatever. This might encourage one to enter his lowest eligible rating event (instead of skipping) to boost his W-L record. It also exposes rating protectors so that lower rated players don't have to feel like inferior humans. A possible comeback for the lower rated one -  "You're rating is higher than mine but you're 2-15 this year. At least I have a winning record and compete with integrity!"  

I don't think that a win/loss rating indicates performance.. Look at our friend Rich DeWitt.. He only plays 1 or 2 events that he has the chance to win. So, his win/loss ratio will be exceptional compared to a player who enters all the events.. Let's say that I enter U2200, U2350, U2500 and OPEN
I win 6 matches in the U2200, 3 in the U2350 and 1 in the U2500 but lose 1 in the U2200, 1 in the U2350, 2 in the U2500 and 3 in the Open, my win/loss ratio is now 10:7
Now, let's say that Rich plays the same tournament and only plays the U2200. He also wins 6 matches and loses one.. His ratio is 6:1 while mine is 10:7.. His may have been 10:7 too if he had played all the events.. So, in the end, those players only playing the lowest eligible event will do fantastic if the win/loss is considered and those entering all events will do horrible. It is in no way an indication of performance. It just shows that you played a ton of lower rated players.

Right, but I also know at least one guy who has a perfect 0-6 record in every tournament he enters, since he only plays two highest events. This allows him to keep his 'high' rating, since he loses 1-2 points at most per tournament, but I'm yet to see him win a game, forget about a match. 

I think 'heavyspin' had this use case in mind with his proposal.
I think I  know which guy you are talking about...  Does it happen to be a 1800 long pips player playing the Westchester tournament who only enters the OPEN?

Edited by Pushblocker - 12/06/2018 at 8:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:21am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

One reason people at want to move up divisions at teams is to play better players. If not for tournaments I would almost never get a chance to hit with a 2000 rated player.


Is it because there are no 2000+ players in your area, or are they just refusing to hit with you, like, ever? If it's the latter, then GMan's suggestion is a good one - put a RR in place with incentives not to default, and bingo - matches against reluctant players. 


We get a rare visitor who is 2000. Maybe once a year. Closest club with anyone over 2000 is over 120 miles and has a few, but you can only play in that top room if you are rated over 1800. But we do get occasional mjaamja visits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

...

I think I  know which guy you are talking about...  Does it happen to be a 1800 long pips player playing the Westchester tournament who only enters the OPEN?

Yes, that's the guy: 1850+, but only enters Open and U2500. Whatever rocks his boat, I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:31am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

I've lost track of the underlying problem this thread is trying to solve. If it's about getting more participation in tournaments, ratings is the wrong place to look. Make them less expensive and more convenient and more people will play. In our system that usually means unsanctioned.

It works for everything else, every business in the world, why not for TT in america?

Just wonder how you would go about making tournaments less expensive?

We do have a great tournament in my town which is a 2 STAR tournament with $500 for the winner of the top category and $60 for the winner in each other category.. Giant Round Robin with groups by rating.. It's about $45 to enter and you get to play 9 to 10 matches.. Not bad at all..

However, they can only offer that low cost as they don't have to pay a lot for the venue.
Most tournaments are expensive because they have to rent a venue. Also, if you want a good turnout at a tournament, you need to get good players. To get good players travelling to your tournament, you need good price money.. If you want a accommodate lot of players you need a bigger venue. 
So, you need $$$$ for the Venue and $$$$ for the price money.. Now, how can you make the tournament cheap if you have all those expenses?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:33am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

One reason people at want to move up divisions at teams is to play better players. If not for tournaments I would almost never get a chance to hit with a 2000 rated player.


Is it because there are no 2000+ players in your area, or are they just refusing to hit with you, like, ever? If it's the latter, then GMan's suggestion is a good one - put a RR in place with incentives not to default, and bingo - matches against reluctant players. 


We get a rare visitor who is 2000. Maybe once a year. Closest club with anyone over 2000 is over 120 miles and has a few, but you can only play in that top room if you are rated over 1800. But we do get occasional mjaamja visits.
Maybe I'll stop bye at your club one day.. I have been driving down to the Rio Grande Valley on Highway 77 many times.. probably about twice a year but I usually never stop at Corpus Christi...


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/06/2018 at 8:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:42am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

...

I think I  know which guy you are talking about...  Does it happen to be a 1800 long pips player playing the Westchester tournament who only enters the OPEN?

Yes, that's the guy: 1850+, but only enters Open and U2500. Whatever rocks his boat, I guess.

I know him and I did play him once..  Beat him easily.. 11:8 11:3 11:3


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/06/2018 at 8:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2018 at 8:28pm
Love to have you PB! I will practice my Cory Elder serves just in case you show upSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2018 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Love to have you PB! I will practice my Cory Elder serves just in case you show upSmile


You would be surprised at the result if you try..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danseemiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 8:56am
I don't agree with adjustments. This is the feel good system. Nobody loses points and someone gains them. Players are constantly over rated or under rated. No stability. Plus when juniors or anybody makes an unrealistic jump the natural instinct is to protect this "wrong" rating.
In the old days no such thing as an adjustment. You earned your points. Now a player can gain 150 points with one or two good wins.The system was completely stable. Everyone knew the rules.
Yes it is troubling to lose to a young player who is under rated but that's life.
I coach juniors and so MANY times they get adjusted too high and it messes with them and their parents.
How does one explain to the parent that their child was adjusted too high and one year later their rating is lower or the same? Why not adjust down then as well.

DS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osmar92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 9:54am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

How about attaching a win-loss record to one's rating? The W-L could be for the calendar year or from last Nationals, whatever. This might encourage one to enter his lowest eligible rating event (instead of skipping) to boost his W-L record. It also exposes rating protectors so that lower rated players don't have to feel like inferior humans. A possible comeback for the lower rated one -  "You're rating is higher than mine but you're 2-15 this year. At least I have a winning record and compete with integrity!"  

it does not work for me caz I want to play quality not quantity. I play much better against higher rated players than I do against lower due to to lack of motivation and not because I am afraid of losing rating points?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Love to have you PB! I will practice my Cory Elder serves just in case you show upSmile


You would be surprised at the result if you try..

It would probably couldn't be any worse than my regular game....Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 11:02am
Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

I don't agree with adjustments. This is the feel good system. Nobody loses points and someone gains them. Players are constantly over rated or under rated. No stability. Plus when juniors or anybody makes an unrealistic jump the natural instinct is to protect this "wrong" rating.
In the old days no such thing as an adjustment. You earned your points. Now a player can gain 150 points with one or two good wins.The system was completely stable. Everyone knew the rules.
Yes it is troubling to lose to a young player who is under rated but that's life.
I coach juniors and so MANY times they get adjusted too high and it messes with them and their parents.
How does one explain to the parent that their child was adjusted too high and one year later their rating is lower or the same? Why not adjust down then as well.



This exactly. Parents equate rating with progress, and it's not. It is just a very unstable snapshot of one moment in time. And it's not particularly accurate. You can get adjusted up but not down?

I can think of a couple of juniors off the top of my head who got artificially high ratings and started avoiding playing in tournaments all together. I have had conversations with others who said they weren't playing in the local tournament because it would mess with their seeding in the junior events at the Nationals, months away.

This is the point I am getting at, the current rating system is not only not encouraging play, in some cases it actively discourages it.
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