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Game against approx. 2500 level player.

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    Posted: 12/14/2018 at 7:56pm
Tried to attack more than I usually do with mixed results.. 3 points out of about 6 or 7 times where I initiated an attack..
Comments?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2018 at 8:35pm
Yes, you were more aggressive than I've seen you in the past at my club (latta in el monte). You are not a 3rd ball attack type player. You seemed too impatient and not focused. Not letting the points develop. But you hit some nice forehands!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2018 at 9:04pm
Why were you guys rushing so much?
Was this not a rated event?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2018 at 9:11pm
Did you get some of the tennis elbow when you started trying to attack more?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2018 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

Why were you guys rushing so much?
Was this not a rated event?

It was the U2550 event..
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Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Did you get some of the tennis elbow when you started trying to attack more?

I hurt my elbow when twiddling to inverted on the backhamd for a koll shot. I always hurt my tennis elbow with backhamd attack.. Forehand is no issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 12:16am
IMO, if you can occasionally attack and win around 50% of the points doing so, then you should for sure  do it, as this completely changes the dynamic for your opponent. 

This will make your opponent play with more risk, as they can no longer feel comfortable playing slow safe shots while waiting for a better ball to attack hard. Now they have to consider the possibility of your attack if they play too safe.

I think if all the rest of you game stays the same, and you can attack with a 50% success rate several times each game, this is worth 100-200 rating points in level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 12:54am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Did you get some of the tennis elbow when you started trying to attack more?

I hurt my elbow when twiddling to inverted on the backhamd for a koll shot. I always hurt my tennis elbow with backhamd attack.. Forehand is no issue.

Ah yes...

You have the same kind of odd looking forehand that I use when blocking the push-block style. Because of the backhand favored grip, and if you don't change it you've got to really crank the arm and wrist around I think. That flared up my elbow at the store, was curious if you had the same issue. 

As far as game comments go, I think the others are correct so far. You look much more attacking minded this time that you've lost the bread and butter aspects of your game! Watching Amelie Solja play and some other higher rated blocker types -- I think they keep on blocking until the opponent gets lazy or weak. Your attacks here, compared to your older games, do seem forced (for your style). So maybe wait for them to think "Oh this guy is just a lame paddy-caker..." and when they send over an easy floater ball, WAMMO! Give 'em something new to think about LOL Even if you don't do it too often, just put out the threat now and again 

From outsider looking on, I just think your forehand attack is really quite far below your overall level (especially against a 2400 guy!) that to rely on that for points the majority of your shots might be a bit iffy LOL


Edited by obesechopper - 12/15/2018 at 12:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 2:25am
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

Why were you guys rushing so much?
Was this not a rated event?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MydasDiablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 4:28am
I think you were playing really well, your forehand attack is pretty formidable. As an OX LP pushblock/chop forehand attack player myself, my experiences with the new ball and higher ranked opponents has been that in most matches I have to attack first or I am waiting to get killed. 

The exception to that has been when I can chop them off, or string chops together and then run in and kill a floating ball coming back off their push. But chopping isn't your game, so when I stay close to the table like you, I will almost always try and get in first because the quality of their opening loops and drives makes it tough to block. 

I feel like the heavier ball has reduced the capacity for OX LP rubbers to brake the ball, that in addition to the reduced reversal means it is pretty hard to block someone off above a certain level. 

When I first realised all this I played only forehand in practice for months, to groove the stroke and give me confidence to always play a forehand attack if the opponent put it there, as opposed to the chicken wing LP block I would have typically reverted to. This worked well and increased my % success for forehand winners. 

Now I find that players after a while will try and avoid playing to my forehand for fear of my attack, and try to pin me on my backhand which is the next challenge to deal with. I have countered that problem by learning to hit down the line and cross court with the pimples off their pushes to my backhand side, most of these hits if successful are unreturnable. I have been doing this using Dornenglanz but am switching to Bomb Talent as it makes this shot easier (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SZcRDA9YA). 

Without following that strategy, I find they push hard into my backhand and smack the next ball point after point. If you have amazing footwork then you can take the Liu Song approach to dealing with this problem, which is to play inside out forehand attacks from the backhand side, but I am often not quick enough to play this shot and still get the same spin and speed (feet aren't planted properly to get my body weight into the shot). 

In short, a really positive step for your game and when the % success rate rises for your forehand attack, which it will the more you focus on it during practice and in matches, the more difficult you will be to beat.   


Edited by MydasDiablo - 12/15/2018 at 4:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 7:18am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

IMO, if you can occasionally attack and win around 50% of the points doing so, then you should for sure  do it, as this completely changes the dynamic for your opponent. 

This will make your opponent play with more risk, as they can no longer feel comfortable playing slow safe shots while waiting for a better ball to attack hard. Now they have to consider the possibility of your attack if they play too safe.

I think if all the rest of you game stays the same, and you can attack with a 50% success rate several times each game, this is worth 100-200 rating points in level.

It is hard to say how much it helped me.. still lost the match 3:0.. I'm 2173 now and opponent was over 300 points above that..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 7:24am
Originally posted by MydasDiablo MydasDiablo wrote:

I think you were playing really well, your forehand attack is pretty formidable. As an OX LP pushblock/chop forehand attack player myself, my experiences with the new ball and higher ranked opponents has been that in most matches I have to attack first or I am waiting to get killed. 

The exception to that has been when I can chop them off, or string chops together and then run in and kill a floating ball coming back off their push. But chopping isn't your game, so when I stay close to the table like you, I will almost always try and get in first because the quality of their opening loops and drives makes it tough to block. 

I feel like the heavier ball has reduced the capacity for OX LP rubbers to brake the ball, that in addition to the reduced reversal means it is pretty hard to block someone off above a certain level. 

When I first realised all this I played only forehand in practice for months, to groove the stroke and give me confidence to always play a forehand attack if the opponent put it there, as opposed to the chicken wing LP block I would have typically reverted to. This worked well and increased my % success for forehand winners. 

Now I find that players after a while will try and avoid playing to my forehand for fear of my attack, and try to pin me on my backhand which is the next challenge to deal with. I have countered that problem by learning to hit down the line and cross court with the pimples off their pushes to my backhand side, most of these hits if successful are unreturnable. I have been doing this using Dornenglanz but am switching to Bomb Talent as it makes this shot easier (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SZcRDA9YA). 

Without following that strategy, I find they push hard into my backhand and smack the next ball point after point. If you have amazing footwork then you can take the Liu Song approach to dealing with this problem, which is to play inside out forehand attacks from the backhand side, but I am often not quick enough to play this shot and still get the same spin and speed (feet aren't planted properly to get my body weight into the shot). 

In short, a really positive step for your game and when the % success rate rises for your forehand attack, which it will the more you focus on it during practice and in matches, the more difficult you will be to beat.   

Absolutely, the plastic ball has made it extremely difficult to beat good players by just pushing and blocking. I did play practice matches with a mid 1900 rated friend and I attacked about 5 to 6 times per game ad scored 70 percent when I initiated the attack. If I play lower opponents and I see that I cqn beat them blocking, I still stay defensive but if olthe opponent is too steady, I attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 10:39am
PB would you consider going to a style like guo jiangshan? That is, long pip attacking on the backhand side? Not passive blocking alone, but mainly hitting with some chop blocks when required. And forehand clean ups!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 4:44pm
I think if you play higher level players you must attack, a unwritten rule (nothing to loose)

Also I thought when you do your forehand serve you hit the ball just after the toss highest point
so the ball has not come down too far, you may even get a bit more cut letting the ball drop a bit

I would have suggested slowing down the pace if loosing but keep the quicker pace if winning
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

PB would you consider going to a style like guo jiangshan? That is, long pip attacking on the backhand side? Not passive blocking alone, but mainly hitting with some chop blocks when required. And forehand clean ups!

Can't do much offensively with the backhand due to injury.. That's the reason I use my fh more now..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2018 at 6:04pm

this is your best version.
you are like homer simpson vs tatum.
you just need to stand there and receive all the attacks until the other guy loses all energy and then just a little push and the point is yours.


Edited by pingpungpeng - 12/15/2018 at 6:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2018 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

PB would you consider going to a style like guo jiangshan? That is, long pip attacking on the backhand side? Not passive blocking alone, but mainly hitting with some chop blocks when required. And forehand clean ups!

Can't do much offensively with the backhand due to injury.. That's the reason I use my fh more now..


Elbow tendonitis is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2018 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

PB would you consider going to a style like guo jiangshan? That is, long pip attacking on the backhand side? Not passive blocking alone, but mainly hitting with some chop blocks when required. And forehand clean ups!

Can't do much offensively with the backhand due to injury.. That's the reason I use my fh more now..


Elbow tendonitis is it?

Yes.. tennis elbow which is tendonitis in the outer tendon.. It is the 2nd time in 2 years that I had the same injury at the 2016 Nationals. It limited my ability to practice for almost a year and my rating stayed at the lowest level in a decade (2000's)..

Edited by Pushblocker - 12/16/2018 at 10:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2018 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:


this is your best version.
you are like homer simpson vs tatum.
you just need to stand there and receive all the attacks until the other guy loses all energy and then just a little push and the point is yours.



This was still with the celluloid balls.. With the plastic ball, opponents can hit through my blocks..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2018 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

PB would you consider going to a style like guo jiangshan? That is, long pip attacking on the backhand side? Not passive blocking alone, but mainly hitting with some chop blocks when required. And forehand clean ups!

Can't do much offensively with the backhand due to injury.. That's the reason I use my fh more now..


Elbow tendonitis is it?

Yes.. tennis elbow which is tendonitis in the outer tendon.. It is the 2nd time in 2 years that I had the same injury at the 2016 Nationals. It limited my ability to practice for almost a year and my rating stayed at the lowest level in a decade (2000's)..

I had the dreaded tennis elbow as well. Now, just anecdotal for me with this product the sidewinder xtreme

and one called the theraband 



But I started using both of those, and my tendinitis reduced to essentially zero. I also had it in my wrist from doing banana flicks, well over a year... and that too is going away using it for wrist exercisers. Something to tinker with perhaps if you've tried everything else! 


Edited by obesechopper - 12/16/2018 at 11:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 1:31am
First, it's just great to see you post a video again.  I've always enjoyed watching your videos and it's been a long time (unless I missed some).

You certainly were playing much more aggressive than I've ever seen you.  However, I disagree with others who seem to think this is a bad thing.  The question is whether you got good results or bad results with your attacks.  I saw one or two where he blocked back winners, and maybe one where you missed your attack.  Overall, though, you seemed to have a pretty good rate of success.  If he's really around 2500, then those are good results.

I know that you've had some success in the past against 2500 players, but that still has to be an uphill battle for you (otherwise your rating would be 2500!).  If attacking more was getting you results against a higher rated opponent, then I would call that a good tactic for this match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 11:17am
As all the pushblockers mentioned before, the new ball makes passive blocking alone non-effective. I only have one pt to add. May be you should try not to always land the ball on his FH side when you were attacking. It is easy for him to block Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathanso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 12:07pm
PB, This device fixed my tt-related tendonitis when nothing else would work. Fixed a couple of players at my TT club, too. It's called ArmAid:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

As all the pushblockers mentioned before, the new ball makes passive blocking alone non-effective. I only have one pt to add. May be you should try not to always land the ball on his FH side when you were attacking. It is easy for him to block Tongue

for me the new ball favours the pushblocker.
just passing the ball the pushblocker should be able to beat the inverted most times.
the weapon of the inverted is looping, this means speed and spin which could be uncontrollable to the pushblocker
now speed and spin is diminished, this means pushblockers and defenders have more chances of bringing the ball back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 4:55pm
Oliver - really enjoyed that forehand offense. I think you turning into a pick hitter will give your opponents fits.

You make me believe that the plastic ball can be good for the game (if they ever learn to make them consistent)!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

As all the pushblockers mentioned before, the new ball makes <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">passive blocking alone </span>non-effective. I only have one pt to add. May be you should try not to always land the ball on his FH side when you were attacking. It is easy for him to block Tongue


for me the new ball favours the pushblocker.
just passing the ball the pushblocker should be able to beat the inverted most times.
the weapon of the inverted is looping, this means speed and spin which could be uncontrollable to the pushblocker
now speed and spin is diminished, this means pushblockers and defenders have more chances of bringing the ball back.


Easier to block, but also easier to return. So the blocks are less lethal and your opponent, if of a decent level, can wait you out essentially and be a pick hitter in return.

Not a huge deal to me, but you just have to develop a forehand!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

As all the pushblockers mentioned before, the new ball makes <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">passive blocking alone </span>non-effective. I only have one pt to add. May be you should try not to always land the ball on his FH side when you were attacking. It is easy for him to block Tongue


for me the new ball favours the pushblocker.
just passing the ball the pushblocker should be able to beat the inverted most times.
the weapon of the inverted is looping, this means speed and spin which could be uncontrollable to the pushblocker
now speed and spin is diminished, this means pushblockers and defenders have more chances of bringing the ball back.


Easier to block, but also easier to return. So the blocks are less lethal and your opponent, if of a decent level, can wait you out essentially and be a pick hitter in return.

Not a huge deal to me, but you just have to develop a forehand!

the way I see it in a push vs push battle the pushblocker should always beat the inverted.
it's much more difficult to control the ball with inverted than with lp.

in a loop vs block battle the pushblocker should also win most times.
it's so much more difficult to loop than to block.
and add to that the difficulty of handling the lp's reversal effect.

so the pb always has the advantage, except when the loop is so powerful that he can't control it.
this situation is what ittf took away with new ball and no speed glue.
he zhuojia blocking 5 fh topspins from ding ning with her lp backhand?
ito mima doing the same thing?
thanks ittf Dead


Edited by pingpungpeng - 12/17/2018 at 8:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by nathanso nathanso wrote:

PB, This device fixed my tt-related tendonitis when nothing else would work. Fixed a couple of players at my TT club, too. It's called ArmAid:



No affil.
Interesting device!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2018 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

As all the pushblockers mentioned before, the new ball makes passive blocking alone non-effective. I only have one pt to add. May be you should try not to always land the ball on his FH side when you were attacking. It is easy for him to block Tongue

for me the new ball favours the pushblocker.
just passing the ball the pushblocker should be able to beat the inverted most times.
the weapon of the inverted is looping, this means speed and spin which could be uncontrollable to the pushblocker
now speed and spin is diminished, this means pushblockers and defenders have more chances of bringing the ball back.
All pushblockers except for Zhi Ming Li have lost 100+ points since the new ball. Check Robert Shanazari's and John Wetzler's rating history since the plastic ball..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/17/2018 at 10:54pm
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2018 at 12:40am
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

As all the pushblockers mentioned before, the new ball makes <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">passive blocking alone </span>non-effective. I only have one pt to add. May be you should try not to always land the ball on his FH side when you were attacking. It is easy for him to block Tongue


for me the new ball favours the pushblocker.
just passing the ball the pushblocker should be able to beat the inverted most times.
the weapon of the inverted is looping, this means speed and spin which could be uncontrollable to the pushblocker
now speed and spin is diminished, this means pushblockers and defenders have more chances of bringing the ball back.


Easier to block, but also easier to return. So the blocks are less lethal and your opponent, if of a decent level, can wait you out essentially and be a pick hitter in return.

Not a huge deal to me, but you just have to develop a forehand!


the way I see it in a push vs push battle the pushblocker should always beat the inverted.
it's much more difficult to control the ball with inverted than with lp.

in a loop vs block battle the pushblocker should also win most times.
it's so much more difficult to loop than to block.
and add to that the difficulty of handling the lp's reversal effect.

so the pb always has the advantage, except when the loop is so powerful that he can't control it.
this situation is what ittf took away with new ball and no speed glue.
he zhuojia blocking 5 fh topspins from ding ning with her lp backhand?
ito mima doing the same thing?
thanks ittf Dead



But they play medium pip style games of actively hitting. You cant do that with the kind of lp push blocker uses for blocking. Theirs have friction and sponge, so they lose funkiness but gain the ability to attack top spins. Watch Manika batra with her lp style to see the difference
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