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Playing against anti-spin rubber player.

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varghesep View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/31/2006 at 3:54pm

I've hard time playing against anti-spin players. I'm a chopper, and is very hard to chop as well as to keep the ball low is very hard. Any suggestion how to defend against anti-spin?

 

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YATTP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YATTP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2006 at 7:12pm
The anti can convert your backspin to topspin and the player can attack with the anti.

* Keep the ball low.
* Keep the ball as long as possible.
* Vary the spin.

This will make it hard vor him to attack with the anti.
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Harold View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 1:44am
On the same topic: Are anti-spin rubbers played like pips out rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YATTP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 6:53am
It depends on the anti. The most extreme anti I know is Joola Toni Hold Antitop. This one has been "the" classic anti for many many years.
The topsheet is the most frictionless topsheet of all antis I know and the sponge absorbs the incoming power like no other sponge. If played on an extra slow def blade e.g. the classic Joola Toni Hold White Spot, even a smash can be blocked short if you have enough experience. The slow-down effect of the ball is really amazing. With this particular anti you can play a topspin like stroke on any incoming backspin ball and attack yourself. The rubber doesn't change the incoming spin and you get topspin for free. The more backspin, the more topspin very much like frictionless LP a la Dr. Neubauer. If you block a topspin with heavy spin the block will be a heavy backspin block just like the Neubauer stuff, but with less backspin, but the block will be much shorter. If you only play with a small amount of spin the anti will kill the spin entirely and you will get a dead floating ball. You have to get a feeling for how much of you spin will produce a certain result. If you don't have time to practice against anti you should use heavy spin to get a predictable result. Antis ulike frictionless LP do react to extremely heavy topspin and the blocks will get higher unless the player is *very* skilled.

Another extreme form of anti is Friendship 804 anti or the Stiga attack anti. These antis play like very mildly spinny normal rubbers or like very old rubbers. The effects of spin reversal decribed above will apply here too but the initial entrance level of necessary spin is much higher. The advantage of these rubbers is improved attacking possibilities against no spin balls because you can still make a little spin yourself. These rubbers don't have the super slow-down effect of the Toni Hold anti.

As you see, anti is not anti. The all behave differently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Harold Harold wrote:

On the same topic: Are anti-spin rubbers played like pips out rubbers?


If we say that there are two kinds of rubbers in general
use, That is Anti and normal, then further analysis would break them down like this:

Normal 1:
Inverted rubbers like Sriver, Mark V, Tackiness, good for spin or spin and speed with fast sponge and possibly chopping with softer sponge. Emphasizes Spin over Speed
Normal 2:
Short Pimples, good for speed and control though normal spin shots are possible. Reacts less to opponents spin. Good control means that certain soft touch shots and blocks are possible that are much harder to do with inverted though possible. Empasizes Speed over spin
PLEASE Dont confuse Sp with LP!
Normal 3:
Hard rubber that is short pimples no sponge CLASSIC table tennis as played by Reisman, Victor Barna etc. You CAN spin the ball with this stuff and the control is fantastic. IMO every serious player should own a classic bat and enjoy the old game from time to time!
Emphasizes Touch and Control

ANTI:
Anti 1: inverted rubber with very low friction. Used by combi bat players, some spin reversal possible
Anti 2: Long pimples with and without sponge. used by combi players spin reversal and 'wobble illusory effects'
Top players usually find this easy to play against because lp cannot control soft ball play easily
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justchill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 9:43am

So how do you beat an antitop player? Last I lost a game against an opponent who was lower ranked then me just because I didn't know what to do against him.

He served long and fast to my backhand and I had to return the ball high as a result he could smash and get the point. When I pushed against the antitop the ball also got high. When I wanted to attack the ball went wide...

help!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunflex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 11:00am

...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sluskas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Justchill Justchill wrote:

So how do you beat an antitop player? Last I lost a game against an opponent who was lower ranked then me just because I didn't know what to do against him.

He served long and fast to my backhand and I had to return the ball high as a result he could smash and get the point. When I pushed against the antitop the ball also got high. When I wanted to attack the ball went wide...

help!

 

hahaha? okey than you are not good my friend

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justchill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 4:03pm
What a stupid reply... If you want to act ridiculous, please somewhere else..

Indeed, that match I sucked because I had no tactics. That is the reason why I'm posting this question.. Do you understand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote josephjuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 7:43pm

* Attack first.

* Use speed to return ball quickly to his forehand (I believe he is using anti on his backhand)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 8:26pm

I play against a guy that has anti on one side and regular on the other. He switches between the two when he is serving which will really screw you up. You have to mentally see what color the rubber is while he is serving to know how to return it.

This guy is a much better player then me but this has nothing to do with his rubber. I find that I can return it without to many problems by looping it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2006 at 9:01pm
always consider the incoming ball without spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2006 at 6:58am
Stay close and attack hard, what you want is to force him to defend rather than attack. A chopper who uses long pips is naturally weak against anti and pips players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2006 at 7:48am
Originally posted by varghesep varghesep wrote:

I've hard time playing against anti-spin players. I'm a chopper, and is very hard to chop as well as to keep the ball is very hard. Any suggestion how to defend against anti-spin?




It would help if you include your bat/rubber setup in your signature :-)
Assuming you are a LP BH and inverted fh: An Anti hitter would love to hit at your lp BH?. Can you twiddle and chop heavily over the table with yr inverted instead of the lp
So what are your rubbers and a bit more detail please
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sluskas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2006 at 9:10am

Originally posted by Justchill Justchill wrote:

What a stupid reply... If you want to act ridiculous, please somewhere else..

Indeed, that match I sucked because I had no tactics. That is the reason why I'm posting this question.. Do you understand?

 

ok i understandz

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2006 at 5:32pm

FH: Bryce
BH: Tackifire-S
Schlager Carbon Blade

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YATTP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2006 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

always consider the incoming ball without spin

This is not correct. The anti will only kill *some* of your spin but not all of it - in fact the heavier the spin the less is killed. If you play a very spinny topspin the block from the anti will contain quite heavy backspin. If you play with mild spin the anti will kill all the spin and the return will be a dead ball. If you play a very spinny push the push return from the anti will contain topspin instead of backspin. Less spinny pushes will become dead balls.
Playing against anti needs good technique and lots of training. It's the same as with all "material". If you haven't trained much against it, you will lose the game for sure. You'll find anti players on all amateur levels - even very high ones. Don't make the mistake to think that you can easily beat a good anti player. This is a huge mistake. Anti players are usually strong fighters who won't give away a point easily without a long fight
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2006 at 1:07am

My opponent is so close to the table and is at the center. His anti rubber generates spin, and he sets me up for returning high. It may be my mistake too giving the returns high enough for him to hit. I'm a defensive player, so my chops puts him into trobule sometimes. The problem is that when I return his ball, "sometimes" the ball does not generate enough spin, goes high, and he hits hard in a weird angle. When I try to lower the ball, he gives me high ball to return high - he sets me up.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justchill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2006 at 6:57am

yeah same problem... I think the key is to play on control to his anti side; and when you have the chance... hit hard and make the point... Just don't try to make the point asap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deeptish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2006 at 7:17am
you should be comfortable with floating balls. try practicing bh-bh counter/push with floating balls. TS against floating balls. Once you are comfortable with floating ball, anti will not be a problem for you any more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2006 at 12:34pm
What do you mean by floating ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deeptish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2006 at 6:09am
Originally posted by varghesep varghesep wrote:

What do you mean by floating ball.


A ball without any spin on it. there is no spin on the ball, so it floats on the air :). you have to learn to be comfortable with this kind of balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2006 at 7:46am
Hello players i use to play and train against a anti spin player in my team and what can a say to help you to improve your game against this kind of players is that you need to be more confident with no spin balls that will be enough and when you play serve to the anti spin rubber with no spin  short or long services , play fast rails and concentrate your self from de beging till the end of the game , here in my area theres many anti spin players so a regular player here are used to this kind of player but when they face players from diferent areas and not used to antispin theantispin player simple win including massive atack players, best regards and good matches for you guys
mike the best
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