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Best skill Ranking

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Tt Gold View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/03/2019 at 10:26am
Is as just watching a video and thinking about the current players and their best shots. There is definitely a noticeable shift from forehand oriented to backhand oriented players. Not many players stick out because of their forehand, since they have such a strong backhand. I thought I'd give my personal ranking and I'd like to see yours.

Forehand
1. Ma long (still the number one forehand imo since he comes from a forehand oriented era)
2. Xu xin (I though about putting him in first, but I think ma longs forehand is just overall better. More versatile)
3. Fan Zhendong ( I think he is slowly changing to a more forehand dominant player. His backhand doesn't stick out as much anymore)

Backhand
1. Calderano (if he plays above his level like he did against Fan then he can rip everything with his backhand)
2. Lin gaoyuan ( I think he is slowly becoming a better backhand player than fzd, but I have no problem putting fan above him)
3. Fan Zhendong (used to be the next best backhand player after Wang Hao and Zhang Jike, but is now focusing on his forehand)
4. Ovtcharov ( ovtcharov at some point had the best backhand, but I think nowadays he's outgunned by others. They also have more variety in their shots than Dima)
5. Harimoto (the fact that he plays at such a high level at that age with a "not so good" forehand shows that his backhand is one of the best in the world. I just feel like he is lacking some consistency, which is understandable since he's still young)

This list was very hard for me, since there are so many strong backhands nowadays. I'd put the two Chinese over Calderano, but if I look at their backhands in terms of having a very good day, then Hugo's backhand is a little better. Lin gaoyuan is more consistent than Hugo though. I put him in second spot, because I think his backhand is his main strength. If fan Zhendong wasn't shifting towards are more forehand oriented style and continued to work on his backhand as he did, then of course he'd smoke them all. But I think he knows what he's doing and his intentions are directed towards beating ma long.

Some other things I thought about are

Footwork
1.xu xin
Gotta stick to him as he still manages to play at the top despite being in an era that doesn't favor forehand dominant penholders

Game understanding/ anticipation
1. Timo Boll ( the man is already super old for a table tennis professional, but his unique style as well as his ability to read his opponent helps him stay at the top)

Serves
1. Shan kun (I have to take xu xin's opinion here. Just watching Shan's matches I always see him score on his serves. Even in the Olympic training with Jike, Jike didn't manage to play a proper topspin against his half long serve)
2. Ma long ( I would've put him in first, but xu xin has played with the Chinese so often and even though most professionals think ma long has the best serves xu xin still bets on shan kun
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tom View Drop Down
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pretty on point!  with small differences
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Slowhand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slowhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2019 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:


Game understanding/ anticipation
1. Timo Boll ( the man is already super old for a table tennis professional, but his unique style as well as his ability to read his opponent helps him stay at the top)

Hard to argue with Boll. Samsonov has to be up there too. I think Ma Long has understanding/anticipation at least equal to both of them. This is such an important skill, especially at elite levels, that it probably correlates strongly with rank list. The players who are best at it are probably roughly the same ones who are or were at the top of the game. Interesting question is which player does the most with the least technical/physical skill. Is there anyone in the top 25 or 50 who doesn't look like they should be there but they just keep getting the results?
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acpoulos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2019 at 5:23pm
Best pre-serve routine - ZJK
Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2019 at 6:13pm
Perhaps Liam Pitchford should be considered for the backhand list.
TT wisdom - Never count your rating points before a match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2019 at 6:51pm
Liang Jingkun is worth a mention also.
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Tt Gold View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2019 at 7:11pm
I didn't include Liang Jinkun, because I see him as an inferior Fan Zhendong. He of course has a very good backhand, but he only beats Fan with it. Lately he's been getting some good results though. But as of yet I wouldn't include him. Forgot about pitchford though to be honest. I guess it's the same thing as with harimoto. He is very inconsistent. When he plays against top guys, then his backhand is up there easily, but I feel like it is very one dimensional. He can play fast backhands at the table which works against these guys, but somehow he manages to lose to guys below his league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pipboy76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 2:23am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I didn't include Liang Jinkun, because I see him as an inferior Fan Zhendong. He of course has a very good backhand, but he only beats Fan with it. Lately he's been getting some good results though. But as of yet I wouldn't include him. Forgot about pitchford though to be honest. I guess it's the same thing as with harimoto. He is very inconsistent. When he plays against top guys, then his backhand is up there easily, but I feel like it is very one dimensional. He can play fast backhands at the table which works against these guys, but somehow he manages to lose to guys below his league.
Considering he's 15, I'd say Harimoto is more consistent than most of the non chinese players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 6:16am
Yes, I agree. But if we are talking about the top players and not about "most".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Is as just watching a video and thinking about the current players and their best shots. There is definitely a noticeable shift from forehand oriented to backhand oriented players. Not many players stick out because of their forehand, since they have such a strong backhand. I thought I'd give my personal ranking and I'd like to see yours.

Forehand
1. Ma long (still the number one forehand imo since he comes from a forehand oriented era)
2. Xu xin (I though about putting him in first, but I think ma longs forehand is just overall better. More versatile)
3. Fan Zhendong ( I think he is slowly changing to a more forehand dominant player. His backhand doesn't stick out as much anymore)

Backhand
1. Calderano (if he plays above his level like he did against Fan then he can rip everything with his backhand)
2. Lin gaoyuan ( I think he is slowly becoming a better backhand player than fzd, but I have no problem putting fan above him)
3. Fan Zhendong (used to be the next best backhand player after Wang Hao and Zhang Jike, but is now focusing on his forehand)
4. Ovtcharov ( ovtcharov at some point had the best backhand, but I think nowadays he's outgunned by others. They also have more variety in their shots than Dima)
5. Harimoto (the fact that he plays at such a high level at that age with a "not so good" forehand shows that his backhand is one of the best in the world. I just feel like he is lacking some consistency, which is understandable since he's still young)

This list was very hard for me, since there are so many strong backhands nowadays. I'd put the two Chinese over Calderano, but if I look at their backhands in terms of having a very good day, then Hugo's backhand is a little better. Lin gaoyuan is more consistent than Hugo though. I put him in second spot, because I think his backhand is his main strength. If fan Zhendong wasn't shifting towards are more forehand oriented style and continued to work on his backhand as he did, then of course he'd smoke them all. But I think he knows what he's doing and his intentions are directed towards beating ma long.

Some other things I thought about are

Footwork
1.xu xin
Gotta stick to him as he still manages to play at the top despite being in an era that doesn't favor forehand dominant penholders

Game understanding/ anticipation
1. Timo Boll ( the man is already super old for a table tennis professional, but his unique style as well as his ability to read his opponent helps him stay at the top)

Serves
1. Shan kun (I have to take xu xin's opinion here. Just watching Shan's matches I always see him score on his serves. Even in the Olympic training with Jike, Jike didn't manage to play a proper topspin against his half long serve)
2. Ma long ( I would've put him in first, but xu xin has played with the Chinese so often and even though most professionals think ma long has the best serves xu xin still bets on shan kun

Hi,

A fun analysis!  One point: I have never grasp well why people think Ma Long is such a distinctive server.  In general, I haven't observed particular effectiveness.  My sense is that the best servers are likely not the best players; I've seen some very good servers, most commonly out of Asia, that have demonstrated the greatest variety and sophistication in the serving game today.

With the serving rule changes, there are no longer "magic servers", so much is now different.

Thanks,
Donn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 9:53am
Originally posted by pipboy76 pipboy76 wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I didn't include Liang Jinkun, because I see him as an inferior Fan Zhendong. He of course has a very good backhand, but he only beats Fan with it. Lately he's been getting some good results though. But as of yet I wouldn't include him. Forgot about pitchford though to be honest. I guess it's the same thing as with harimoto. He is very inconsistent. When he plays against top guys, then his backhand is up there easily, but I feel like it is very one dimensional. He can play fast backhands at the table which works against these guys, but somehow he manages to lose to guys below his league.

Considering he's 15, I'd say Harimoto is more consistent than most of the non chinese players.


The fact he s 15 doesnt mean he can improve at the same rate everybody keep saying he lost because he s 15 he lack power because he s 15.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 10:26am
Originally posted by pipboy76 pipboy76 wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I didn't include Liang Jinkun, because I see him as an inferior Fan Zhendong. He of course has a very good backhand, but he only beats Fan with it. Lately he's been getting some good results though. But as of yet I wouldn't include him. Forgot about pitchford though to be honest. I guess it's the same thing as with harimoto. He is very inconsistent. When he plays against top guys, then his backhand is up there easily, but I feel like it is very one dimensional. He can play fast backhands at the table which works against these guys, but somehow he manages to lose to guys below his league.
Considering he's 15, I'd say Harimoto is more consistent than most of the non chinese players.
that is like saying he is the strongest (in strength) man in the world, given he is 15.  either you are or not, age has nothing to do with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pipboy76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 11:19am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by pipboy76 pipboy76 wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I didn't include Liang Jinkun, because I see him as an inferior Fan Zhendong. He of course has a very good backhand, but he only beats Fan with it. Lately he's been getting some good results though. But as of yet I wouldn't include him. Forgot about pitchford though to be honest. I guess it's the same thing as with harimoto. He is very inconsistent. When he plays against top guys, then his backhand is up there easily, but I feel like it is very one dimensional. He can play fast backhands at the table which works against these guys, but somehow he manages to lose to guys below his league.
Considering he's 15, I'd say Harimoto is more consistent than most of the non chinese players.
that is like saying he is the strongest (in strength) man in the world, given he is 15.  either you are or not, age has nothing to do with it
So what you're saying is that for him to be considered consistent he has to be a better player than Ma Long, FZD and Xu Xin and if he's not then he's inconsistent? You can be very consistent player without being the best player in the world you know..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2019 at 11:22am
Originally posted by pipboy76 pipboy76 wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by pipboy76 pipboy76 wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I didn't include Liang Jinkun, because I see him as an inferior Fan Zhendong. He of course has a very good backhand, but he only beats Fan with it. Lately he's been getting some good results though. But as of yet I wouldn't include him. Forgot about pitchford though to be honest. I guess it's the same thing as with harimoto. He is very inconsistent. When he plays against top guys, then his backhand is up there easily, but I feel like it is very one dimensional. He can play fast backhands at the table which works against these guys, but somehow he manages to lose to guys below his league.
Considering he's 15, I'd say Harimoto is more consistent than most of the non chinese players.
that is like saying he is the strongest (in strength) man in the world, given he is 15.  either you are or not, age has nothing to do with it
So what you're saying is that for him to be considered consistent he has to be a better player than Ma Long, FZD and Xu Xin and if he's not then he's inconsistent? You can be very consistent player without being the best player in the world you know..
none of that.  consistency is a measurable quality, age does not make it more or less true
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