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Who uses short pips

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Skyline View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2019 at 8:18am
No on my backhand, for forehand I would prefer a spinnier pip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2019 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

Yeah i saw that! No, i Do not think they should use it because if him. But if you have a natural flat hit like you seems to Do and Do not want to change the technique or try changing the technique But still have trouble making spin i think they could give it a try. I think there is some hate against using different materials sometimes like it would be cheating or something like that. Atleast where i am from. I think people should try if they want to.


Yeah go for it and try! Why not! What pips are you using now? Maybe you can try some pips without grip. It Will be harder to make spin But you Will get more effect and a nice sinking effect so there are good possibilites to change the pace.


People in my environment always have discouraged me to use pips. Luckily I was able to do pretty well with double inverted especially when I learned how to loop and flick properly ( reached the 2nd highest level in my country) but looping is not really my natural stroke, I'd rather flat hit as fast as I can. So last year I started with short pips on my forehand (Impartial XS) I think I could do pretty well with it but my coach was strongly against it. So I switched back to my regular T05/T64 and did pretty well. With double inverted tho I have the feeling that I should improve technique wise to improve even further whicj is rather hard to do since I've been practicing a lot for the last 4 years and my tendency and strong points are flat hits and hard counters. So after seeing this Mima Ito playing I was like I'd better try something new to see if I can improve more.

I am using Tibhar Speedy Soft Dtecs on my backhand which is quite popular among SP players here, it's very disturbing and pretty fast aswell.

Why was he strongly against it? i think he resonate strange. If you do not have so spinny strokes, you have natural flat hits and these shots are your strengths i can not see why he thinks you should play with inverted. Like i said before, if you want to loop with short pimple i think it is better to have inverted, but if you want to flat hit with inverted it would proably be better to use short pimple. 

I do not know your coach, but i can imagine that if he do not know much about pimples and how to play with them he then thinks you should avoid them and use inverted. 

And i think if he want you to play with inverted, he need to help you to get more spin on the shots. 

I have been a coach for many years for kids, and i think that closing the angle of the racket so you hit over the ball and then accelerate with the forearm(and wrist on the backhand) is the most important things to be able to get spin on the loops. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2019 at 10:09am
Yes you are right that might coach is not very knowledgeable about short pips especially on the forehand side. I'm interested to know more about you and your coach. Getting lessons from a pimple expert would be awesomw

About the increasing spin thing, this is rather hard for me especialy on the backhand side. On my bh I have a pretty spinny and consisted opening and I can hit some nice loops but I always prefer to be slightly further back as I like to contact the ball later. I can't seem to brush the ball and go over it on highest point on fast bh exchanges closer to the table ( I'd rather hit against the ball)

Edited by Skyline - 01/16/2019 at 10:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2019 at 11:14am
Yes, but it is a pretty unusual playing style so i can understand that. The two coaches i mentioned is good with material in general and is somewhat known in Sweden that the put short or long pimples on alot of players. They have example also trained Fabian Åkerström as you might know. I would not consider me a people expert, but i think i maybe know a little more in general about it since i played with short pimple for so long. The two coaches i mentioned i would not call pimple experts either because they are very good as coaches in general, but they have proably more knowledge about pimples than the average coaches. I can imagine that a part of why they are good at it is that they are not afraid to try different materials. 

From what i have learned from been playing with pips for a while is that it is important to focus at:
 
Hit the ball at the highest point, if you hit it lower you can not smash and if yu try you will proably miss since you do not get any arch like an inverted. so good footwork is very important. 
Have a an open racket angle. Since you do not want spin and want to hit flat you should have an open racket angle
if you want to smash you need to accelerate and do an explosive motion. you want to 
Have a short contact with the ball so you need to stop after you have hit the ball. 
Important to have good shot selection. Like you said you sometimes can not smash because the ball is to low and i feel that sometimes players want to hit all the time but then they will miss. 
try to do the same stroke and move the legs instead. This is important for all players but maybe more for short pimple players. 

I also think that you maybe need to practice alot more since playing with short pimple since it is a game with small margins. It is that because you really need to go for the shot and do an explosive motion if you want smash. if you are not explosive enough you the ball will just die and nothing will happen. And with less spin, the ball will not go in an arch and then land on a table, it will just go straigth and out. Because of this it is really important to hit the ball at the highest point, so need better footwork so really can do that cause the lift with pips when you come wrong is not as good as the loop with inverted.

I think that if you have a spinny loop and want to play further back and hit the ball later it would proably suit you better to use a inverted rubber. But that is just my opinion. 

Maybe you have the same problem as me. When i want to loop hard on the backand i usually drop the racket down. So if i am further away and contact the ball a little later this is perfect for me since then i get the ball by the racket. But this do not work for me since i can not smash forehand then. 

By dropping the racket i also have trouble go over the ball and loop forward when i am close to the table since the ball is over my racket and the only way for me to hit the ball is to hit upward and brush behind the ball so i get alot of arcch and spin but no power. But i want power, so i need to lift up my elbow higher so the ball is by the racket, then i can come over the ball and hit forward and get a harder ball. I think many do the same fault as my, that they do not have the racket high enough. If you try to have the racket higher up you proably will be faster and have more time to hit the backhand at fast exchanges. Look at the chinese when they play against topspin, they have the racket very high. And we do only need to lower the racket against backspin, since we need to bring the ball up, but against topspin it is already topspin in the ball so it is not necessary to drop the racket low. 

I have talked way to much now, and i do not know if this make sense. hard to explain technique with texh but hopefully it maybe can help you a little. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2019 at 5:26pm
Thanks a lot for your advice, what your saying actually makes a lot of sense and yes I have the same problem and dropping the racket habit. I guess its just difficult for us tall players to maintain a good position of the racket. I'm thinking of going to table tennis academy at Eslov this summer, do you know if it's any good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2019 at 6:01pm
Try looking at the pros, some have the racket very high against topspin. 

Where you from? 

I have been at a camp at Eslöv when i was young. Not the funniest place on earth haha. Very very small place. 

Are you going to join theirs training group or are they having a camp? 

Eslöv is highly regarded in Sweden as a good tabletennis place! I think there is alot of good players there and good coaches so it is proably good! Peter Sartz is a coach there and i think he knows his stuff. 

Halmstad is also a good tabletennis city in sweden! They proably have a good training group and good coaches! Tickan, old national player in Sweden and used to be Swedens coach is a coach there. Fredrik Håkansson, also old national player is also a coach there. 

Söderhamn is good aswell! I have also been there at a camp, you can live above the training hall so it is very practical. They also have good players and good coaches. Peter Blomkvist, current swedish coach is a coach in söderhamn. I also think Thomas von Scheele, old national player and coach might be coaching there but i am not sure. 

I you are going to a camp i do not know how good the opponents are,but if these places have a camp i think alot of players will come, proably some good aswell and they will proably have good coaches aswell. 

How old are you? i think that if you are going to a camp it will be alot of kids, teenagers and young adults. So i do not know how you feel about that. 

And if you are going in the summer and also want vacation i think Halmstad is a pretty nice place to be in the summer. 

If you are older maybe you can try Japskos camp for adults. But these are often just one weekend. And they players are not crazy good, so it might not be good practice for you. But i think it vary alot from ccamp to camp and sometimes they have good sparring.  Marcus Sjöberg, one of my old coaches that knows alot about equipment owns the company so he is often a coach at those camps so you could proably get alot of help with the short pimple play. I went to one of those camps, mostly to get help  from the coaches since the standard of the players were not very high but some where good so it worked. The coaches there were Marcus Sjöberg, coach for England, Peter Blomkvist, coach for Sweden and Jon persson, national player in Sweden. So if you find the right Japsko camp it could benefit you alot. 

I know that Japsko offer video analysis, where you send your video to Sjöberg and he gives you tips. Maybe this could be something for you. i do not know the cost thou. Do not know if their site is in English, but if you are interested i could help you translate if the site is just in swedish. I also know that Sjöberg does some private coaching, and if you go to sweden maybe you can contact him about it. 

Let me know what you chose! 


Edited by Lula - 01/16/2019 at 6:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/17/2019 at 7:17am
Thank you so much for the tips and information. Halmstad and Soderhamm sounds like very interesting options. I am 26 years old, so training with kids under 15 would be not my preference, but 16 years and older seems fine for training.
Is it possible to come a week or two to train at those places in July for example?

The japsko place also sounds interesting especially the video analysises and knowledgeable equipment coaches. I normally do prefer places with strong sparring partners though.

Wasn't Thomas Von Scheele the guy sponsored by nittaku being famous for his backhand punch?

I'm also interested to know the name of mattias falcks old coach/your coach and the place where he is coaching.

How about alf knutsson I heard he is the guy who coached waldner at a very young age.



Edited by Skyline - 01/17/2019 at 7:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/17/2019 at 9:32am
Okay! i would imagine that the kids that play there regurlary are very serious so it is possible that they are pretty good so i think it could work pretty okay. I  think that all of these places have training camps in the summer, but i am not sure how the level is at them. I would be surprised if they do not have training camps in the summer. If the players in the training groups stay in the summer the opponents proably will be pretty good i think since i believe these places have pretty strong training groups. 

I do not know if it is possible to train there in the summer. It would proably be easiest to attend a training camp if they have one of those. And for their regurlary training i do not know if they have breaks in the summer, but if they do not have that i would be surprised that they do not let you practice there. but how good practice it will be for you, proably depends alot on your level and who they will let you train against. I think it is easiest if you try to contact them and ask them this directly. 

I think the video analysis would give you very much since in my opinion i think the coach knows his stuff. but i do not want to promise anything haha. 

here is the site: https://www.nordictabletennis.com/videoanalyser-25921396 
But it seems that it is only in Swedish. Maybe you can try to translate. 

I can help you a little. With the video analysis the coach analyse three areas: technique, tactics and equipment. They write you a mail and tell you this and you will get a 15 minutes talk with the coach were you can go through the report. 

The cost is: 
1 hour 800 kronor
5 hour 3000 kronor
10 hour 5000 kronor. 

I have almost never seen Scheele play so i do not know. 

Hans Thalin put the short pimple on Falck. I think he works in Karlskrona now for Lyckeby BTK. Marcus Sjöberg is like the novice(is it called this? like student) of Thalin, he worked alot with him when he started out. He is coach at the tabletennis school in Köping, for England and he does camps for Japsko. They have both alot of knowledge and is known to be good with pimples. I have had both of them as coaches and they are also very nice and friendly. 

I think private coaching with them almost will give you the most. I do not know if Thalin does this, but i know Sjöberg does this to some players. If you are going to Sweden maybe you can contact them beforehand and see if they can help you. Maybe i can help you contact Sjöberg, but i think it would be better if you try to contact him through the link above or through japsko. He could also help you with contact to Thalin. But i think these coaches do not have so much time, and have alot of other tabletennis commitments so it migth be very difficult to get private coaching. 

I went to one of his and Mikael Appelgrens camps when i was young. Can not remember much, so do not know if it was any good. I have not heard about him alot and do not know where he is coaching, i also do not know how good he is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 12:26am
Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

Okay! i would imagine that the kids that play there regurlary are very serious so it is possible that they are pretty good so i think it could work pretty okay. I  think that all of these places have training camps in the summer, but i am not sure how the level is at them. I would be surprised if they do not have training camps in the summer. If the players in the training groups stay in the summer the opponents proably will be pretty good i think since i believe these places have pretty strong training groups. 

I do not know if it is possible to train there in the summer. It would proably be easiest to attend a training camp if they have one of those. And for their regurlary training i do not know if they have breaks in the summer, but if they do not have that i would be surprised that they do not let you practice there. but how good practice it will be for you, proably depends alot on your level and who they will let you train against. I think it is easiest if you try to contact them and ask them this directly. 

I think the video analysis would give you very much since in my opinion i think the coach knows his stuff. but i do not want to promise anything haha. 

here is the site: https://www.nordictabletennis.com/videoanalyser-25921396 
But it seems that it is only in Swedish. Maybe you can try to translate. 

I can help you a little. With the video analysis the coach analyse three areas: technique, tactics and equipment. They write you a mail and tell you this and you will get a 15 minutes talk with the coach were you can go through the report. 

The cost is: 
1 hour 800 kronor
5 hour 3000 kronor
10 hour 5000 kronor. 

I have almost never seen Scheele play so i do not know. 

Hans Thalin put the short pimple on Falck. I think he works in Karlskrona now for Lyckeby BTK. Marcus Sjöberg is like the novice(is it called this? like student) of Thalin, he worked alot with him when he started out. He is coach at the tabletennis school in Köping, for England and he does camps for Japsko. They have both alot of knowledge and is known to be good with pimples. I have had both of them as coaches and they are also very nice and friendly. 

I think private coaching with them almost will give you the most. I do not know if Thalin does this, but i know Sjöberg does this to some players. If you are going to Sweden maybe you can contact them beforehand and see if they can help you. Maybe i can help you contact Sjöberg, but i think it would be better if you try to contact him through the link above or through japsko. He could also help you with contact to Thalin. But i think these coaches do not have so much time, and have alot of other tabletennis commitments so it migth be very difficult to get private coaching. 

I went to one of his and Mikael Appelgrens camps when i was young. Can not remember much, so do not know if it was any good. I have not heard about him alot and do not know where he is coaching, i also do not know how good he is. 


Would be great if thañin can give dome advices about what pips to use cons and pros of the most used pips
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 4:39am
Try contacting Japsko and explain what you are looking for and they can recommend some pimple for you. and it would proably be easiest if you test alot of Pimples yourself. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

Try contacting Japsko and explain what you are looking for and they can recommend some pimple for you. and it would proably be easiest if you test alot of Pimples yourself. 


Tried a lot but japsko didnt gave me a solution they said a spinnier pip like 802 40 would help me but that plays like smooth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 6:01pm
What Did you ask? I think the pros and cons of the mostly used short pimples is a to big of question and almost No one can answer it if not the person have Tried all those pimple rubbers. I also think the most popular rubbers is very similar with just the different that some have more grip and some have less grip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 6:35pm
OP could PM Speedy...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

What Did you ask? I think the pros and cons of the mostly used short pimples is a to big of question and almost No one can answer it if not the person have Tried all those pimple rubbers. I also think the most popular rubbers is very similar with just the different that some have more grip and some have less grip.

No disrespect intended, but I think this is not correct at all. There are a lot of differences between short pimple rubbers. There are many other factors to be consider other than just the grippyness of the topsheet itself. Firstly we must consider the sponge. Even the same topsheet will play much different on OX, 1.5, or max sponge. The sponge thickness makes a huge difference. There are also various different types of sponges available such as hard, soft, medium, tensor, dead sponges, etc...  

Another point of consideration is also pimple alignment. As a shakehand player, I personally prefer horizontally aligned pimples on my backhand side. If you want to make any spin, its difficult to face vertically aligned pimples on your backhand at the correct angle required for spin generation. Vertically aligned pimples are generally more suitable for my forehand side. With vertically aligned pimples on my forehand, I find it easier to adjust the bat angle so that I can make spin balls when I want and flat balls when I want. Also, it all depends on your style of play, your strokes, and how you hold the racket. 


Edited by ericd937 - 01/18/2019 at 7:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 10:56pm
Non taken. I know What you are saying and you are correct. But i think the grip matter most and i should have mention sponge thickness But i have a feeling that this Guy has big problem choosing a rubber so i Tried making it easier for him. I also like to write everything i know so people can learn and choose themselves But i can imagine that more information would make it even harder for the Guy to choose. In my opinion it is most important that he focus on the grip and then just try som short pimple too see for himself. But it is nice to hear that someone knows so much about short pimples. Not so common.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

What Did you ask? I think the pros and cons of the mostly used short pimples is a to big of question and almost No one can answer it if not the person have Tried all those pimple rubbers. I also think the most popular rubbers is very similar with just the different that some have more grip and some have less grip.


I asked specific things like pips with medium spin with low arc something like a boosted 802
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/18/2019 at 11:31pm
I think it is hard to answer What pips that have medium spin. What Do you mean with medium? I think the either have more grip so more spin or less grip so less spin. Compared to inverted all pips have lower arch i think. Maybe those with harder sponge and No grip have lower But i am not sure. Why can you not play with a booster 802 then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2019 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

I think it is hard to answer What pips that have medium spin. What Do you mean with medium? I think the either have more grip so more spin or less grip so less spin. Compared to inverted all pips have lower arch i think. Maybe those with harder sponge and No grip have lower But i am not sure. Why can you not play with a booster 802 then?


Andro hexer pips   victas 102 are too sensitive to spin .challenger flarestorm2 raytorm radical are high arc.its a hassle to boost and you need to clean the sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 45 minutes ago at 2:15pm
Dear Lula you gave me inspiration to try short pips on both sides. I will try Rakza PO on my forehand soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 49 minutes ago at 6:11am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Dear Lula you gave me inspiration to try short pips on both sides. I will try Rakza PO on my forehand soon.

You can try! but i think you need to give it atleast several months before you decide it is not for you. In my opinion it is much more difficult to play with short pimple compared to inverted since you need to hit the ball at the highest point and since the ball go straight because it is almost no spin. And playing with two pimple rubbers i even more difficult! So i think you need to practice alot, move the legs alot and try to hit the same stroke everytime. But i think if you have a natural flathit and have a hard time making spin you could try it. 

Try searching Jonathan Thimon on youtube, it is a junior or is it cadett? national player in sweden using pips on both sides. He was not very good in sweden before, but then Sjöberg put two pimples on both sides and he became the top in his age. 

Try searching Anton Andersson on youtube. Thalin put double pimples on him. 

Try searching Johnny Huang. 

There you have some inspiration. I think it is alot of fun to play with pimples, but difficult. You can se on the videos that it is possible to become good with the style. The two swedish guys are both playing in the second highest league in sweden  i think. Compared to many other countries the level there is high. Johnny huang were a pro, beat Waldner in the olympics. Good luck!
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