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FH chiquita |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 04/22/2019 at 11:52pm |
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Was wondering, what's stopping the FH to have a sidespin chiquita like the BH? So the idea is to wrap around the side of the ball with the wrist, and the forward component simply comes from pushing the elbow forward. The preparatory movement could be disguised like a push for more deception....
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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hugo and niwa so it sometimes.
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Lula
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2017 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Do not think the wrist move as well in that direction.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Hmm I think from some shadowing it's definitely weaker than the BH chiquita but it could be a very valuable sudden variation to the FH receive haha... I was thinking of hooking around the side almost exclusively like a hook loop to increase the amount of sidespin and make it really curl out.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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balldance
Super Member Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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I know a guy that does this stroke. It was deadly to be honest, I didn't even realized what he did in the first few times. Basically, when I push short to his FH side, he hang his elbow high and then wrap around the ball very fast with his wrist and forearm while his bat pointing somewhat downward, it all happened very fast, I couldn't see very clearly. The ball was fast and it landed on the wide forehand, very hard to return because it's something you never saw or expected. And he was not even a good player, this stroke is his best weapon :D It's not like what Calderano or Niwa does because it's much more explosive and aggressive. Top players are adding new strokes (especially on-the-table strokes) to their arsenal and I won't be too surprised to see a pro player doing this someday.
Edited by balldance - 04/23/2019 at 4:53am |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Ok haha I'm gonna learn it now!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Think it's pretty much close to impossible to use the Swedish grip for receiving serves haha...long serves would be killer. I don't think it's necessary to drop the bat that much, my idea was more like hooking around the ball like a FH hook loop...from the top looking down the bat goes from 4-5oclock to 10oclock...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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JohnnyChop
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2010 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 1159 |
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While it is possible, isnt the straight up hit against the shortball that ma Lin or malong often does a more effective shot. As it is hard to generateb a threatening amount of spin from the FH side wouldn't it be better to just go for speed and placement?
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Going for pure speed and placement is hard because it requires a very precise control of the racket angle. That's why even pros make quite a lot of mistakes doing the FH flick and they generally don't do it directly off the serve (the serves are usually too spinny to control). Even Ma Long doesn't outright flick serves that often... It's a different story for pips though as with pips the pure flick can be quite a stable shot. Making it a sidespin chiquita will go a long way towards making it a lot more consistent and useable.... Also you could use a push preparatory movement so opponents won't know what's coming until it's too late. From the same position you can do a sideswipe which curls towards the opponent's BH, a FH chiquita or hook flip which curls towards the opponent's FH, or simply push the ball short, long, etc...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Lula
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2017 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Think it is to hard to bend the wrist that way. I think maybe we will see more of the opposite banana flip, is it called strawberry?
What are you guys talking about? i am swedish and have been playing almost my whole life, and been coaching almost the half of it. What is the swedish grip? haha :)
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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I think it's not exactly the same like a banana flip which can do almost 270 deg bat rotation, realistically we can only achieve 180 deg on the FH. I dont think you need to drop the wrist much at all...just hook around the side of the ball upwards! It's more like a variation of the sidespin push except because you brush it upwards it's going to have topspin and it's gonna be faster...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Delete double post
Edited by blahness - 04/24/2019 at 2:31am |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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When people get used to it you can hook the ball around the side downwards and it should produce side underspin, watch them dump it to the base of the net and curse away!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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The movement I'm thinking of is more like the FH hook serve sidetopspin variant...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Lula
Super Member Joined: 07/18/2017 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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i mostly Do banana and strawberry flip with backhand. Have short pimple in forehand so hard to Do much variation there.
We Do not call the serve grip anything really. Never heard anyone call it swedish either. But We call banana flip ”tjeckflipp” which translate czechflip. Proably because of korbel.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Managed to do a couple at the club tonight but success rate was kinda low, you have to pronate actively to give the ball topspin...
But the few that I did had quite some quality in it... Will continue trying it out!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Koki used it at around 18 sec in the video and a few other times (3:50 is another one). He didn't apply a lot of force though so it was just mostly spinny and soft (probably because the opponent already retreated from the table)... Tbh I think it's possible to hit it harder than what Koki is using it for (a soft FH sidespin flip)...
Edited by blahness - 04/25/2019 at 3:07am |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Hi,
With the 3 fingers (thumb, index, middle) pendulum serve grip, a shakehand player can do the equivalent. It's not necessarily a winning shot, just a rally starter like the bh chiquita: to limbo with the pushers!
The same in slow motion 19 seconds later in the same video --> watch that sequence at speed 0.25: |
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TTslurp
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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If we´re talking of the stroke where the blade is more or less parallel with the table surface, I reckon that the penholders should be able to do that easier and with more wrist backswing than shakehanders. I tried doing it with penhold but it feels very unintuitive to me. Somehow it just appears harder to do. Dunno why.
Edited by TTslurp - 05/27/2019 at 1:59am |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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Frankly I was picturing some sort of modified reverse pendulum serve for this shot. Elbow high, blade brushes the outside of the ball. I think it might work. FdT
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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