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Controversial finish to Austrian Bundesliga Season |
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Simon_plays
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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Posted: 05/28/2019 at 8:35am |
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Watch the final set, you're in for an absolute shocker!
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henningf
Super Member Joined: 03/01/2017 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Absolutly horrible serving from both of them. Hiding with body, slow to remove hand etc. Add the stopping and complaining.... all in all.... a horrible match....
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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insane. everything you never want in a match and more.
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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Although lots of the player in black serves could have been called as faults, I thought the umpires did a pretty good job of only calling the one's that were especially bad. Even I could see that when they called the faults the hand stayed up much longer and/or the toss was farther back behind the shoulder.
What actually happened on the apparent match winning point that caused the umpire to change the awarding of the point? He did originally signal point to player in black, but when player in red pointed to player in blacks side he changed his signal of who won point. Mark
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liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6344 |
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wow, that's a crazy finish. Definitely an unsportsmanlike conduct. But resulting in a lost point, I don't know.
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Simon_plays
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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That bit is really bizarre. I just watched it back at 0.25 speed and all I can see if the umpire awarding the match point, looking to his right and then changing his mind and warding the point the opposite player. Don't think his decision was linked to the player jumping on the table. As far as I know, what a player does after the match point has been awarded can't result in the match point being overturned.
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liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6344 |
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that asshat clown deserves it. Per ITTF Referee handbook
17.2 Warning
17.3 Penalties
matches. A doubles pair is regarded as having incurred the higher of any warnings or penalties incurred by either of the players; thus if one has been warned in a previous match and the other had incurred 1 penalty point, a first offence by either of them in the doubles match would incur 2 penalty points. A warning or penalty during a doubles match applies to the pair during that match, but only the offending player will carry it over to a subsequent individual match. The following example illustrates this point: In a team match with 4 singles and 1 doubles matches, players A & B are paired to play the doubles match. In their first singles matches in this team match, A was warned and B incurred a penalty point. In the 2nd game of the doubles match A intentionally breaks the ball by stepping on it. The umpire awards 2 penalty points against A/B. In their next singles matches, each player carries forward 1 penalty point.
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FruitLoop
Super Member Joined: 09/20/2018 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 405 |
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Didn't Ma Long do the same? Don't remember people complaining.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
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Do we know for a fact that the umpire reverted his decision because the player jumped on the table after the match was over? If that's the case, I do not see how the decision can be justified. This is "le fait du prince" in all its splendor, throw that umpire in the same basket than the one where rots the Italian lady who abused Ding Ning in London.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
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double post sorry (time out pbs)
Edited by stiltt - 05/28/2019 at 3:02pm |
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pongfugrasshopper
Premier Member Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3659 |
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The video poster, TT11TV, submitted this Youtube comment:
TT11TV "Unfortunately this ended with a disqualification of David Serdaroglu. After his service was cancelled for the alleged 11:9 in the decisive fifth set due to a service error, he was shown the red card because of referee criticism. " "Dieser endete leider mit einer Disqualifikation von David Serdaroglu. Nachdem sein Service zum vermeintlichen 11:9 im entscheidenden fünften Satz aufgrund eines Servicefehler aberkannt wurde, wurde ihm wegen Schiedsrichterkritik die rote Karte gezeigt. " |
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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Looks like the umpire looks to his right to someone off camera and then asks the assistant umpire a question. The assistant umpire holds out his arms palm up and shrugged his shoulders in a "I do not know" gesture". The umpire looks back to his right again as if questioning someone and then changes the point award. As the player is arguing the apparent referee walks into camera frame from the right and the umpire points at him as he is arguing with the player.
Is it possible that because of the previous serving complaints the referee was positioned behind the sever (off camera) to watch and help with hidden service calls? And he was the one who was responsible for changing the point award. A little later I saw the apparent referee give a red card to a coach (or player) who came up to argue the change of point award. You can see that player making the point award hand gesture as he is talking to the referee. I remember some talk about using a third official to help with hidden serve calls. Would this be something a referee could do under current league rules? If he did make an override call, it would explain a lot. Mark
Edited by mjamja - 05/28/2019 at 3:45pm |
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Nightsky
Super Member Joined: 03/03/2018 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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That someone was actually Chen Weixing, one of the best defenders of the last 20 years. Not quite the level of JSH, but still pretty good. Anyway, that topic is also being discussed over at TTD. Someone watched the entire match and made an interesting summary and sound conclusions... Comment No. 20 (ttopy) Generally, I think, you are right, Mark.
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hunkeelin
Silver Member Joined: 07/22/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 865 |
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Can someone give me some context on the last point? What happen? Why the red is pointing to "something" at the back? What is red complaining?
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Simon_plays
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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ttopy over at TTD counted and apparently black was faulted 8 (!) times for his serve during the match.
Seems that there was a more senior umpire stationed behind the server, hence why the point was overturned. Reckon this video will go viral, which is kind of a shame for table tennis...
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henningf
Super Member Joined: 03/01/2017 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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The guy in black should watch this: https://youtu.be/RIcmLLL5FLI maybe he could learn some even worse illegal serves...
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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A difficult match to umpire.
High pressured, I am sure. Despite being penalised points, the blue player had continued with his hidden serves right up to the last point played during fifth game with score 10 : 9 in his favour. He then served and the red shirt player was not able to return the serve and the umpire had also accorded the point and match to the blue shirt. Unfortunately for him, his opponent was already appealing to the referee who then overruled the umpire. At this point, as I understand it, the score would have been 10 : 10. When the commotion erupted and did not end, the referee then instructed the umpire to penalise the blue shirt player with a yellow/red card warning.........which was how the score ended....at 10 : 11 in favour of the red shirt player. Had the blue shirt player accepted the decisions of the referee, he would then be serving at 10 : 11. Alas, things did not turn out according to the script when the referee showed the blue player the red card. Worth noting that the red shirt player had repeatedly complained about his opponent's serves and even at the very end, he had immediately pointed to where the referee must have been standing; ie behind the blue shirt watching his serve. Was it the referee calling for a stop or halt at that point ? Definitely, a difficult match to umpire with the emos flying. My conclusion : there was no controversy. Do not really understand the reason for the referee to red card the blue played at that point. could have cooled down the temperature in the room but that was his decision. And never celebrate too early...... before the win was declared. |
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Good discussion. I would add that in addition to not celebrate too early, do not ever celebrate like that. Ever. It demeans ones self and is the behavior of a 2 year old.
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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With the blue player's repeated service infractions, the umpire was entirely justified in penalising him at 10:9 - either for a service fault or because his behaviour was "detrimental to the sport" (see 2.17.2.2 referenced above). What impresses me is the umpire's willingness to stick to his guns, regardless of the stage of the match. Calling illegal serves is never trivial, but the umpires (both of them) worked hard to remain impartial and fair. The failure of the blue player to modify his serve is not the umpire's concern. If more umpire's did their job as these ones did then the game would be in a much better place than it currently is.
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amateur
Premier Member Joined: 02/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4801 |
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Stockerau (the blue team) has filed a protest against the decision.
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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You might be confusing some people here. There were 3 officials involved. The Umpire, was seated on the high stool, and the assistant umpire who controlled the scoreboard. They were both in the court. The 3rd was the referee who was outside the court and issued the red card at the end.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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amateur
Premier Member Joined: 02/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4801 |
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Almost 2000 views already, the whole world is talking about it BTW, the controversy begins at 8-8 in game 2. Player in red complains about his opponent's services. The referee seems to be already watching from outside the box. The next point the referee intervenes to fault a service which was actually a let, and the umpire awards the point to the player in red. Was that a proper decision for a let serve? [EDIT: yes, I suppose it was; as soon as something about the service is illegal, it doesn't matter whether the ball touches the net or not] Edited by amateur - 05/29/2019 at 1:28pm |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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Blue shirt was way too argumentative right from the second game. He continued arguing later on, which is enough to get yellow carded. In my view the referee was way too lenient. The red card could have come up much sooner. That kind of behavior is unacceptable.
Ma Long did not get the benefit of a warning in his game against Pitchford, which he lost later on. And as far as that bitch who took points from Ding Ning during her previous Olimpic game, well, she was just a bitch.
FdT |
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Simon_plays
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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More than 10k on the video of just the final point. Trust me, I know what the man on the street likes to watch and this is it. It will go viral.
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bard romance
Gold Member Joined: 02/18/2016 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1185 |
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It actually would be beneficial to the sport to see a little bit of fire and flair. It's not a shame. Meek reactions don't really go too far in terms of getting attention. |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Great last serve
I found it strange that the assistant umpire called many of the faults when the left-hander had his back to him, even when the official umpire saw nothing wrong and awarded a point but then was overruled by the assistant and the referee was behind the server so what could he see
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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Two consecutive serves both at point of contact, the first at 8-10 not called, the second at 9-10 called illegal. Notice any differences? |
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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the lefty in blue has similar service to par gerell.
just as tabletennisdaily introduced their videos "par gerell serving master class"
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amateur
Premier Member Joined: 02/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4801 |
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The protest was dismissed and the result stands. Stockerau can still file an appeal against this decision.
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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'The protest was dismissed and the result stands. Stockerau can still file an appeal against this decision.' - amatuer.
Would you know to which authority he appealed to and what he appealed against, what were the grounds of his appeal. Thanks
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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