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Glue+boost :How many point advantage ? |
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Vince64
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2013 Location: Kent, WA Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Posted: 07/05/2019 at 11:59am |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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just curious, who was he?
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1306 |
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Yup - and writing style is way too similar to previous incarnations. I'll wait for obligatory post from another forum user vouching for OP.
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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
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Olio
Super Member Joined: 03/27/2012 Location: UK / France Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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New profile
Troll topics 'nuff said
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XufeiYeng
Beginner Joined: 07/01/2019 Location: Ottawa Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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From what I heard about this forum (as I am new) , I was warned strongly not to post things you have, because if you criticize pips you may be banned from this forum. Which I found interesting because I thought ITTF uses a democratic process. Strictly hypothetically speaking (so hopefully I won't be banned from this forum as well) , if I can convince ITTF members to vote to outlaw pips altogether, would it it not be following the democratic process ? Or am I not allowed to speak against pips at all and how all of them cheat by microwaving and epoxying their pips while ITTF only checks for glue violations ? Just wondering
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Thot
Silver Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: faraway Status: Offline Points: 617 |
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Speed glue and booster gives you advantages, they were and are used for a reason.
In a game this year I saw Ma Long's rubbers curled on the sides, that's because of boosting. IMO the biggest advantage of boosting is increased dwell time, from there other advantages appear - control, spin, speed. In the past I've used speed glue to attach the rubbers on the blade and I noticed that if I've played immediately after that my game was a few notches better. With time the effect diminishedand after 2-3 days max was completely gone. Usually I glued the rubbers on the blade and didn't reglued until I changed the rubbers. I went to a club and noticed that most of the players speed glued their rubbers before the games. Those who didn't usually lost the matches and eventually speed glued their rubbers. I did pretty well against those who didn't used speed glue, but they beat me once they speed glued. Fast forward until I bought Falco Long booster and I tried it on hard rubbers like MX-P 50. Before that I could barely control it, with booster the serves were better; service return was amazing - double bounce pushes, better placement, flicks; on loops I can feel the increased dwell time and the effect - more spin. One disadvantage is the ball doesn't leaves the blade instant, but IMO is a good thing. Not all rubbers react well to speed glue or boosters, I could feel a big improvement with MX-P 50, but not so much with MX-S. Don't boost too much soft rubbers, they'll become mushy. I wonder if the recent releases of hard rubbers has anything to do with players boosting heavily. I do agree that good techniques is better than boosting, but when playing with people on the same level with you'll have an advantage if you boost. |
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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-the advantage you get with long/short pimples is much bigger than the advantage you get with booster. they are not comparable really. -asians boost just like europeans -if both players are 1400 booster won't make a difference because points will be because of human errors. put it this way. if you run a lap in a formula 1 car, does it matter if you are using rain tyres or normal tyres? no, you will suck equally bad with both. if a real formula 1 pilot runs, you will consistently see a lower time with normal tyres than with rain tyres.
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XufeiYeng
Beginner Joined: 07/01/2019 Location: Ottawa Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Exactly my point. When almost all my opponents illegally boost and speed-glue or have no skill and use some sort of illegally microwaved and epoxied pips , why should i be left behind ?
How is that ? If I am 1400 rated & you are 1400 rated , how is there a big difference in skill for example ? I say we are both 1400 because you should compare players at more or less equal skill level, no compare Ma Long to a beginner. Yes Ma Long can even beat a 2600 player EASILY but that proves nothing in terms of equipment or skill. Every player needs his best equipment. That is why most Europeans cheat big time illegally boosting and illegally speed gluing, trying to catch up with Asians in addition to rigging the rules & fixing the rankings by bribing whoever needs to be bribed like Americans, Australians & South Africans, Brazilians etc. That is an open secret in ITTF I hear. Now let us not even get started with IOC corruption that makes ITTF look like saints |
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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I catapulcally disagree with this. I think control is increased with boosting. makes a rubber softer, gives it more dwell time, gives it more contact time with ball -> it increases control.
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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I do not boost. I do note improved play with chinese rubbers when I play the first day after attaching them with rubber cement-but not with my now preferred andro rasanter rubber. I have no idea how much better (or worse) I would be by boosting, but my day to day variation in play level is easily 100-200 USATT points depending on innumerable factors from a bad day at work, to having mowed the lawn that day to being worried about a kid or a bill due. I probably drop 500 points easy if I do not get a good warm-up (which is quite common if you rush in to play and do not time to properly warm-up.
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chongqinghotpot
Silver Member Joined: 11/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 538 |
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Boosting changes the characteristics of a rubber for sure, which has both benefits (increased speed and spin) and harms (reduced control and short games). Pros can maximize the benefits via daily practice, but there are no advantages for one player vs another because their rubbers are all boosted one way or the other. However, for the amateurs who do not play regularly, the harms significantly overweight the benefits which they can’t utilize, hence boosting often is a disadvantage among them. Personally, since I play only once or twice a week and enjoy blocking and controlling the placement and rhythm, I don’t play as well with any changes in playing characteristics from the balls, rubbers and blades. My best performances have been with tenergy rubbers on the blade (one particular vis out of many many experimented) after 3 to 8 months attached with 3 layers of water based glue. My estimate is boosting would bring down my level about2- 3 points or 100 usatt rating points in the first 2 months.
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USATT rating 2200
05Vis64 |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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"so if there is no advantage in boosting why have professional players been caught so many times boosting? (and disqualified). if there was no advantage they wouldn't do it...." You clearly have not studied logic. This argument you present is a combination of two logical fallacies. First one is the Bandwagon fallacy. Google it. Just because X is popular, it does not prove X is correct. The other fallacy I'm referring to is called the argument from ignorance fallacy. Google it. Usually it is articulated in the form " why else would it be". In this case you are articulating it "why else would they do it?!". Just because you/I don't know the answer you don't get to jump to the conclusion you are asserting in the first place. If you assert that boosting gives an advantage, the way to to prove the assertion is to provide evidence. And not just anecdote. I mean actual statistical evidence. "A gentleman proportions his beliefs to the evidence" David Hume FdT
Edited by Fulanodetal - 07/04/2019 at 2:30am |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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No point advantage, even worse than without boosting.
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1009 |
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I think fdt agrees with you but he does so tassie style, pushing to the extreme what is a clean way to teach healthy tt: "if you do not go to the olympics to represent your country, don't boost." The pb is if starting early, by the time the kiddos can understand that wisdom, they are hooked and will just laugh at the counsel.
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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so if there is no advantage in boosting why have professional players been caught so many times boosting? (and disqualified). if there was no advantage they wouldn't do it....
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I will say that for me personally, depending on equipment, I could d be 100-200 points higher or lower. Equipment does make some difference. For some players a boosted rubber might make that difference, for other players it could be unboosted Tenergy , short pimple, or some other rubber. Your milage may vary depending on your skill level, style of hitting, choice of blade, and other factors. No one could say if boosting your rubber will help your game or hurt it. Just give it a try or don't.
Edited by ericd937 - 07/03/2019 at 11:05pm |
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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" there is a small advantage blah blah blah"
Well please provide some evidence for this assertion. I say the most likely answer is that it is a placebo effect. I tried boosting and there was no advantage. I tried speed gluing and there was little advantage. Good technique does not come in a little bottle. Good technique requires hard work. Tactics require good technique and some thought. Tactics also do not come in a little bottle. In any case I do suggest to the OP to try boosting only because it is the only way for him/her to realize the truth. FdT
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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there is a small advantage. boosted rubbers become more elastic. this makes it easier to block, to loop, to serve..... to do anything. this slight advantage could mean a lot when you are in top ittf level and the differences between players are minimal. in amateur levels the difference in skill is big so the guy with more skill wins, regardless of his equipment.
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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"I realized how stupid I was when I could have created a cheap combination which my friend showed me."
Based on your response to my answer, I'd say you still are, as you yourself have admitted. Go ahead, boost your rubbers. If anything, you will eventually learn that it is not the boosting that gets you points. At least you will learn something. Pros boost because they like the feel. There's no real advantage. And to those who say there is, it is in your head! It's tactics and technique. Technique and tactics. There's no shortcuts. FdT
Edited by Fulanodetal - 07/03/2019 at 6:20pm |
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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The rubber that I normally use: Focus III (2 sheets for $22.)
I can beat about half of the players I usually play against, and lose to the other half. One day I decided to spend more money on rubber - I bought Tenergy, put them on the same blade I use. Then I found out that I lost to more players - some players I normally beat, now they beat me. Then I go back to use my Focus III. Tenergy got more speed and spin than Focus III. Boosting is supposed to increase speed and spin right? Change from Focus III to Tenergy has the same effect. Conclusion: Boosting won't win points for you, it is the skill that will. (Try to practice and/or taking lessons to improve your skill is the way to go.) *** Tenergy is a better rubber than Focus III for sure. But the rubber is just too fast for me.*** Edited by skip3119 - 07/03/2019 at 4:30pm |
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Dream1700
Super Member Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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Boosting will give you clear advantage of 1-3 points in some games. In other games it will give you 1-3 points disadvantage. Now, the trick is to know ahead of time which game will go which way.
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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I played to guy with boosted short pips since he started boosting their pips are too powerful
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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vik2000
Super Member Joined: 06/29/2018 Location: Behind you Status: Offline Points: 264 |
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I boost, but my goal of boosting is mainly to speed up the break-in process of hard tacky Chinese rubbers. I have used one layer on harder euro/Jap rubbers mainly because I enjoy hearing that sound of boosted rubber.
I will be frank here and assure you that there is little advantage when you boost, and if you are at a lower level, you might lose out on control which will work against you. I honestly think TT is 95% technique. Probably 99% at lower levels because you simply can't utilize the slight edge boosting might give you.
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XufeiYeng
Beginner Joined: 07/01/2019 Location: Ottawa Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Honestly I did not even know about boosting or regluing until my friend told me about it. I have played for 5 or 6 years but have no rating but I would say about 1400 level and am stuck there. What my friend made sense because you should use any means needed to beat players close to your level that you can beat because they also cheat using pips or such. Also almost everyone cheats (now I know) with glue and boosting and this is essential to survive & I know it now & my friend showed me it is a 3 to 4 point advantage. I was a non-believer & until he showed me. I am still learning mixing various chemicals to make best speed glues or booster possible but can use all the help I can get. Also I am not worried about technique. Yes I have bad technique . So what ? I admit it. I don't see many people blaming long pips player who just throw their racket their and get a higher rating. Come on Let us not be hypocritical. It cuts both ways
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XufeiYeng
Beginner Joined: 07/01/2019 Location: Ottawa Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Seriously ? Is that why most Europeans boost to catch up to Asians ?
Sorry beg to differ. I don't have better techniques & never will. What is wrong in using glue / booster to gain advantage ? Is that illegal ? Pips user use pips to cover up their weaknesses. I am getting sick of being blamed as the only one who is the bad person
Huh ? I guess most Europeans do it just to get lung cancer and & not to beat Asians ?
Again makes no sense. Everyone loses matches but my point is that I will just win more matches. Why should I not cheat and suffer when everyone else is cheating secretly ? Why is everyone so afraid to admit they use illegal glues and boosters ? I know I am kind of asking to be honest about being dishonest but my point is that it is not like there is some ping-pong police will come to your house in the middle of the night and drag you away & you will never be seen again. Everybody cheats at all levels. At professional levels they check and other lower levels there is no testing. Let us be real about it. Everyone plays coy and clever in this forum. When I posted question about ITTF gluing rules being ambiguous nobody answers because admitting that this is a way ITTF covers their behind. Edited by XufeiYeng - 07/03/2019 at 12:43pm |
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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If I use all 3 can I get a 17 point advantage? What if I use all 3 on forehand and backhand? What if I use it on the bottom of my shoes?
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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falco gives you 4 points.
haifu seamoon 6 points. kailin 7 points and an easy push from your opponent, so 7 and a half.
Edited by pingpungpeng - 07/03/2019 at 12:35pm |
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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You mean smooth rubber like Der Materialspezialist Diabolic Extra Slow?
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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XufeiYeng
Beginner Joined: 07/01/2019 Location: Ottawa Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Then how many points ? Please provide details of exact method with glues & boosters to use Much appreciated
Which rubbers ? Don't say short pips LOL I am talking about smooth rubber only ( I am sorry if I don't like those who don't use smooth rubber but it is frustrating)
Edited by XufeiYeng - 07/03/2019 at 12:27pm |
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