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ITTF has sanctioned friction tests on pimpled rubb |
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Posted: 09/04/2019 at 2:07pm |
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My opinions follow, and may not be gospel, so take them with a grain of salt. I have limited experience with both of these types of rubber, even though I have played some with them. I'm generalizing here about a wide variety of frictionless products.
I missed most of the frictionless era, but from what I remember these pips returned a large percentage of the spin on the ball, so if you looped to them what you received back was close to the same amount of spin only the direction of the ball had changed. So essentially if you looped with a lot of topspin, you got a lot of chop in return. Frictionless anti's seem to be more difficult to use, racket angle must be very precise and the technique is different from frictionless long pips. That may be changing some with the more current anti's on the market, but I still think it holds true. Because of the larger surface contact on the anti it will, generally, not return quite as high a percentage of the spin on the ball. The contact patch being larger, it slows the revolution of the ball slightly more. All of this is dependent on the pips or anti used and the sponge under the anti. They have made and continue to make strides towards better anti since the pips were removed. They offer a similar although different play style.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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I was told that the frictionless LP's could produce an effect much like a rubber that had uneven wear. Essentially it was claimed you could not be sure of the spin even if you watched the stroke technique closely. This does not happen with frictionless anti. Note: I have also been told by LP players that the above is not true. I never played with or against the pre ban frictionless LP's so everything above is second hand knowledge. Mark
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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Can someone explain to me why frictionless anti spin rubbers are still legal but pips are not? Seems contradictory to me...
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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last post proved you are a sock puppet
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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I thought you would never ask. Would be honored to continue to expose the smooth rubber radical extremists and their criminal ways until BAAL & Haggisv get upset with me and ban me
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Oh yeah ......how clever ? cannot come up with something intelligent to say other than repeating what I said........how sad
Edited by InvalidUserID - 09/02/2019 at 8:20am |
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purpletiesto
Super Member Joined: 11/19/2017 Location: Perth Status: Offline Points: 242 |
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Get back in your hole, you cheating, pips playing, second rate citizen.
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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The amazing thing is that I think you only need about 30 players (any players any skill level) & an attorney to bring a class action lawsuit against the USOC or IOC (I did not say ITTF or USATT) to have table-tennis removed from Olympics (or at least suspended from 2020 Tokyo Olympics) but the problem is that you can talk a big game in a forum but are you willing to walk the walk. ? But I doubt it because as I said pips players are just spineless cowards & act like they don't understand the oppressive abuse and won't do a damn thing. I am not going to get into why a class action can be filed against IOC / USOc but part of it a severely tilted playing field in favor of smooth rubber radical extremists, in gross violation of Olympic ideals but major reasons I won't get into here because there won't be even 2 pips players who would sign up for this. Oh well I keep hoping that there would be a pips / defensive players uprising against the ITTF just similar to how the smooth rubber radical extremists led by Bruc Lary brought the ITTF into submission in 1995 to repeal the glue ban. Obviously that is not happening. But nothing would bring me greater pleasure than pips/defensive players miraculously growing spine and forcing the IOC to remove table-tennis permanently from the Olympics. Table-tennis richly deserves that for all the oppressive abuse dished out at the pips / defenders from 1983 not with 1 or 2 or 3 changes but 7 disgusting changes
Edited by InvalidUserID - 09/02/2019 at 7:48am |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Thank you again. We are going to consult with the Heidon developer of Japan next week. We need a light-weight instrument easy to operate, at affordable price, with a view to distribute those to all national assotiatons interested. Edited by igorponger - 09/01/2019 at 7:24pm |
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qpskfec
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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Another 5 sec google search shows many kinetic friction testers like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbiEfWY6G3k ittf obviously uses a friction tester for rubber authorization. They should be talking to the maker of this tester. The first question the device maker would have for ittf is "What are your requirements?" |
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pongfugrasshopper
Premier Member Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3659 |
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That device measures static friction. ITTF regulations call for measuring kinetic friction.
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kuko61
Beginner Joined: 05/10/2017 Location: Slovakia Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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I agree. This device does not look very scientific. It looks like a child's toy.
If they want to measure friction, they should use a device, that shows the exact values of the friction of the rubber. And when they include a minimum allowable friction value in the rules, they can start penalizing players. |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Invalid User from AZ makes some good points. I, personally, believe any and all rackets and coverings should be legal. Why not? To homogenize the sport into one playing style . . . two-winged looping . . . is terrible. That prohibits disabled, many elder, and other players from playing. In my case, I have severe nerve damage throughout my playing side that prevents me from performing the movement needed to loop correctly. Should I quit and try pickle ball? Nah, I have high self-esteem and still have the ability to throw a round-house kick. Weeoooo!! Try and stop me from using my racket!!
Edited by tommyzai - 08/31/2019 at 2:57pm |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Your advice is a great help. Thank you a lot. Edited by igorponger - 08/31/2019 at 12:53pm |
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qpskfec
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That ridiculous plastic contraption is not suited to measure friction at high accuracy levels.
If ittf is serious about measuring friction at events, professional quality, portable testers already exist. They should be evaluating test equipment like this: (easily found in 5 sec with an internet search) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0m3opqjS8s |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Some beautiful poster, much like Chinese 大字报; dàzìbào, to be mounted inside for all the table tennis facilities and clubs worldwide. Quite emotional and suggestive, indeed.
________________ Yes. we feel eager to obtain this Friction Tester as soon as the price drops a bit. Edited by igorponger - 08/30/2019 at 3:56pm |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Yes, this testing apparatus is now owned by an Italian commercial engineer Mr. Covini, he is a passionate supporter for supremacy of fair play in table tennis. Be happy. Edited by igorponger - 08/30/2019 at 4:05pm |
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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As I said before (& many many times) these are strategies & techniques developed by smooth rubber radical extremists to terrorize the second class citizens of table-tennis (pips/defenders) .........that is impose maximum possible visual & mechanical inspection with no associated fair chemical inspection. If I was playing in Italy, I would first ask them to show me a chemical test equipment that will test for reasonable combinations of VOC compounds (if not all) for speed glue AND boosters , even those could be in millions BEFORE I would submit my racket to ANY sort of visual or mechanical inspection. Then again, this would never happen because pips / defenders are spineless cowards (with no self-esteem) who are willing to submit to all forms humiliations devised by smooth rubber radical extremists (who make up the majority of general council, and all special committees of ITTF) such as these to try to prove in vain that they (pips /defenders) are worthy of love & admiration of smooth rubber radical extremists ..................while the simple fact remains that there are 10000s of glue cheats for every pips offender. Keep in mind that ITTF claims (to get IOC funding) that NO form alteration of the rubber (sponge and or top sheet) is allowed as of from 10 years ago. The original problem started with the failed Aspect Ratio change attempted at the 1995 Tianjin BGM which had to be tried by Dr.Rufford Harrision because he had to make some peace offering to smooth rubber radical extremists (for having the balls to try to ban regluing....which was of course immediately repealed due to politicians like Bruce Larry, super-radical extremist Lee Edwards Esq. who also confessed openly his hatred for (long)pips etc, who threatened to form their own association) like Bruce Larry to keep his job, though this was Eberhard Scholer's idea (claiming there were millions of pips users who were microwaving there pips while it was probably less than hands on your finger) . Rest is history as the SuperSecret 1988 Durban Aspect Ratio "regulation" which Bruce Larry used to claim till few months ago (after 21 years) that it was a regulation. Also , who approved this testing gadget ? Did the Italian National Association approve this gadget ? Who are the members of the council of Italian Association ? Let me guess, the majority of the members of the (Italian) council are smooth rubber radical extremists.......well well well what else is new
Edited by InvalidUserID - 09/02/2019 at 8:11am |
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Jackcerry
Super Member Joined: 07/06/2018 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 177 |
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in Italy we have the bat tester for frictionless pips
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Most of the common populacy are known to use a sole pimplles sheet for years, without refreshing . No way is it good for making profits.
The business sharks needing for the friction test as hell. |
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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This is a misleading statement. This is how smooth rubber radical extremists manipulate / brainwash the pips/defenders by saying that , if you are talented , you can play with any racket, which is the farthest from the truth. Though there are only 4 or 5 basic playing styles, every single human is unique in the way they execute their stroke (mechanics) on their backhand or forehand and this manifests into billions of combinations of styles. Yes you can beat a player 11-0 using their racket but I doubt that player had the same rating as you (more or less) . This is how smooth rubber radical extremists and hardbatters set a trap to get ready to brainwash you. When comparing two players of different styles, you must compare players of more or less same skill (rating) levels , not compare a a 2750 player to a clueless basement player ? Yes Waldner may beat a 2300 player using short pips racket but can he beat Jiang Jiliang with both using short pips. Conversely Jiang will probably beat 2300 player using smooth rubber, but can he beat Waldner with both using smooth rubber rackets. Bruce Larry & his worshippers used to use the same logic as his worshippers used to claim that Bruce Larry can beat a 1900 player using a scifi book as a racket etc. Actually I have even seen Bruce Larry switch rackets from smooth rubber to hardbat in the middle of a match (when that used to be legal upto about 15 or so years ago) Every single human has a unique playing style & they need to design a racket / rubber that as closely matches their unique playing style. An amatuer player can NEVER achieve that 100% and trying to do that is half the fun for most amatuer players. (On the other hand nothing is more stupid than trying force your style to match that of a professional player (just because you admire their style) by trying to buy rubbers / blades just like them...........while the simple fact you don't know is that even if the brand name of blade / rubber says the same as , theirs is different in that the blade is customized in some way ( of course the manufacturer or pro player cannot admit to this) & the rubbers are hand picked for them)) . This is why you should never take the bait from smooth rubber radical extremists or hardbatters. They want you to prove to them that you can be just a clone of them.............YOU have to try to prove to them that you are worthy of their love & admiration in their warped sense of realty & fairness in their twisted world . But you are not. You are a unique human being with your own unique style. When they try to bait you, the proper answer is "No thank you, you play your best with your own unique style & unique racket I play my best with my unique style matching unique racket"
Edited by InvalidUserID - 09/02/2019 at 8:17am |
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Well ITTF is owned by smooth rubber radical extremists. So we do what we like. Get used to accepting the fact that you pip/defenders are just second class citizens. The ONLY reason we do not ban you completely from ITTF is to prevent the dilution of control over you if you go grew spine and went out and started your own association with a level playing field & diversity (We have spine and that is why we had the glue ban repealed in 1995 almost immediately..........but you (pips/defenders) have no spine...........we made 7 changes till 1983 & you are still with us. You will continue to be. As pointed out before, like an abused housewife, we have brainwashed you into believing that you deserve this oppression and YOU need to keep trying to win our respect and admiration)
Edited by InvalidUserID - 08/31/2019 at 1:24pm |
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Every form of visual and mechanical inspection must be enforced against pips/defenders to remind them they are second class citizens but with no associated chemical inspection for boosters / speed glues. This is the ITTF controlled by the smooth rubber radical extremists
Oh well life is not fair. Again, pips / defenders will have to accept the fact that they are second class citizens living in the world of ITTF controlled by smooth rubber radical extremists. That is just fact of life.
Rules, regulations or rules passed illegally as regulations, it does not matter. They all will be strictly enforced ONLY against pips/anti players not against two winged loopers. ITTF just claims regluing / boosters are not legal just to get IOC funding. Pips/defenders must understand & accept this fact and keep their moths shut
As long as it takes ............to enforce visual and mechanical inspection with no associated chemical inspection ...We just cannot develop an (Enez) detector that will cycle thru all billions of combinations of organic compounds in a few seconds to detect each illegal boosters / speed glues...........oops wait a minute that was about 10 years ago....ITTF ow claims there is no boosting / speed gluing at all to make a believer of IOC
SERIOUSLY ? This testing is only for pips/defenders not the holy and revered two winged loopers
Oh come on Dennis. You should know the answer for this already. Since we cannot perform chemical inspection , it is NEVER for smooth rubbers. But since visual & mechanical inspections can be performed at any time easily, a smooth rubber extremist reserves the right to inspect the racket of pips/defenders ANYTIME to remind the pips/defenders that they are second class citizen and put them in their proper places
As bad as it takes until we can come up with the next rule (Of course I mean rule as a regulation) to terrorize the pips/defenders. We are upto 8 changes since 1983 but ITTF is not sure if this enough to keep the pips/defenders in their place. Sorry Edited by InvalidUserID - 08/31/2019 at 1:18pm |
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igorponger
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Yes. Just so .. |
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DonnOlsen
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Thank you for this information. 27% are pimple rubbers (221 short & medium, 170 long) I believe it is technically correct that there is no medium pimples category recognized by the ITTF. Thanks again,
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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ChichoFicho
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Meanwhile, everybody is boosting in order to win unfairly, relying on the equipment to generate the spin and speed. Game has become a joke in recent years.
Edited by ChichoFicho - 08/29/2019 at 6:45am |
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Darker Speed 70
Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
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InvalidUserID
Member Joined: 08/28/2019 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Wrong !!!!! More and more rules & regulations (and rule as regulations) are brought out periodically by the smooth-rubber-radical-extremists controlled ITTF to terrorize pips & defensive player in their place. (ITTF knows full well that most of these pips / defensive players do not know the history of ongoing oppression starting in 1983 and even if the pips / defensive players do know they are too spineless to stand up and protest. Also most of these pips / defensive players have no self-esteem & have been thoroughly brainwashed into believing that they are second class citizens. This is no different from an abused housewife eventually convincing herself that it is something ONLY wrong with them (pips / defensive players) and if not ITTF won't be repeatedly abusing them and therefore she has to work hard to correct herself to win the admiration & love of smooth rubber radical extremists .
No kidding . But guess who will be penalized more. It is not the smooth rubber radical extremists . As long as ITTF can come up with all kinds of visual & mechanical inspection schemes with the usual non-existent chemical inspection of smooth rubbers for speed glues / boosters, smooth rubber radical extremists have nothing to worry about Edited by InvalidUserID - 08/31/2019 at 1:21pm |
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igorponger
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HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY.
Interesting, A vexed group of ITTF Representatives have sent in an appeal to EC asking for verification on some Japanese defensive players. There is a strong beleaf that those players may still using factory treated pimples. Edited by igorponger - 08/29/2019 at 7:25am |
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purpletiesto
Super Member Joined: 11/19/2017 Location: Perth Status: Offline Points: 242 |
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My contact told me that the system is going to be deployed at every ITTF event and the device will be affordable and will be encouraged to be used by all table tennis clubs. It's a glorious time we live in.
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purpletiesto
Super Member Joined: 11/19/2017 Location: Perth Status: Offline Points: 242 |
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Perhaps I and everyone else here should be asking the same about you.
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Post Reply | Page 123 7> |
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