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Which TSP/Victas offensive short pips for defense

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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/24/2020 at 7:50pm
I would like to ask for advice regarding the following short pips: TSP Spectol Blue, Victas VO > 301, VO > 101, VO > 103

Currently, I use a Tibhar Speedy Soft in 1.5 for practicing defense and I like it a lot more than the Super Spinpips Chop I had previously. It was too slow for chopping and impossible to attack with over the table because of its slowness.

What I enjoy about the Tibhar is that I can vary the spin on off the table chops and when I do have to come in, I am able to keep the ball low with it and even vary the spin on pushes. Service receive is also better with it for my taste.

My problem with the Tibhar is that the sponge under it is not the modern porous sponge and therefore it limits my options a little and also I feel I could gain more control with a modern short pip.

In terms of thickness, I am looking to get 1.6, anything thicker is out of the question. As for sponge hardness, I perfer the harder ones, 45 degrees and up.

My purpose is to vary the spin from close to the table while maintaining the possibility of counterattacks whenever possible so I am looking to get some disturbing effect from the pips. When chopping away from the table, I do not need strong spin reversal but the most possible amount of control.

For example, it looks like Han Ying has been using the Spectol Blue for at least two years now, I want to emulate her kind of game. I could also say Hou Yingchao.
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Hozuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2020 at 8:56pm
my advice: get a test set from one of the big shops in germany, contra, schöler-micke, or maybe sport schreiner and test whatever of those is available. when it gets this specific, only testing things for yourself will get you foward quickly.
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ChichoFicho View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2020 at 2:53am
Those pips are all meant for offensive play. Among them VO>101 is the most disruptive and causes a lot of damage. 
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2020 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

I would like to ask for advice regarding the following short pips: TSP Spectol Blue, Victas VO > 301, VO > 101, VO > 103

Currently, I use a Tibhar Speedy Soft in 1.5 for practicing defense and I like it a lot more than the Super Spinpips Chop I had previously. It was too slow for chopping and impossible to attack with over the table because of its slowness.

What I enjoy about the Tibhar is that I can vary the spin on off the table chops and when I do have to come in, I am able to keep the ball low with it and even vary the spin on pushes. Service receive is also better with it for my taste.

My problem with the Tibhar is that the sponge under it is not the modern porous sponge and therefore it limits my options a little and also I feel I could gain more control with a modern short pip.

In terms of thickness, I am looking to get 1.6, anything thicker is out of the question. As for sponge hardness, I perfer the harder ones, 45 degrees and up.

My purpose is to vary the spin from close to the table while maintaining the possibility of counterattacks whenever possible so I am looking to get some disturbing effect from the pips. When chopping away from the table, I do not need strong spin reversal but the most possible amount of control.

For example, it looks like Han Ying has been using the Spectol Blue for at least two years now, I want to emulate her kind of game. I could also say Hou Yingchao.

I would pick blue since chops more flatter  and has better control than 101 and 103
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2020 at 1:39pm
Thank you for input guys.

Before the virus reached here, I had already been taken down by the seasonal flu and now that Covid is here, I cannot go anywhere because everything is closed so I cannot do any testing and it looks like I will not have the opportunity for quite a few weeks.

According to the available reviews, the 101 is the most difficult to use while it is the most disturbing pips in the Victas range. If it is closer to Joola Express Ultra it must be a good pip for attacking but when I tested that one it became evident that it is meant for all out attacking and nothing else.

Mykonos made a good point about the flatness which is what I am looking for. With the plastic ball the question is flatness and the ability to handle no-spin balls where long pips put me in a huge disadvantage.

That leaves V > 102 and Spectol Blue.

Could you compare these two in terms of quality and the differences as far as passive play goes. Could it be that the 102 is the premium version of the TSP or are they quite different?
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2020 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Sebin78 Sebin78 wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Those pips are all meant for offensive play. 

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking.

With all due respect I am not sure if Hans understands the very purposes of various types of pips. 

I am not sure of a pro player in recent times who used short pips for chopping. The last one was Ding Song (mid 90s) but I though he won despite that & because his blade seemed freaky.

Any other top players who used short pips for chopping ?  It is almost like using smooth rubber exclusively for chopping. 

Victas is a nasty short pip. I have this player in this area who beats me like 2 & 3 but we are of about same rating. Not sure which type of Victas he uses. When he flat kills hard and I return with a lob aimed right at the ceiling, the ball still goes to the bottom of the table. So dead.  (Therefore most unsuitable for chopping unless as a fake chop) . So frustrating. But I see other players returning this but I am not sure how.        


Think Han Ying, she is doing fine with what seems to be a TSP Spectol Blue.

The reason why I am trying to explore this is that I have grown to prefer short pips defense overlong pips. It is ball type dependent but generally the problem with long pips is that since the plastic ball they have become a serious disadvantage in my club. They start feeding me no spin balls and there is no way on earth that I can get back the first topspin in a way that would stop them from blasting past me the next one.

So for me short pips are the answer because it is easier to keep the ball low from close to the table and it is a lot easier to handle no spin balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2020 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

[QUOTE=Sebin78][QUOTE=ChichoFicho]Those pips are all meant for offensive play. 

So for me short pips are the answer because it is easier to keep the ball low from close to the table and it is a lot easier to handle no spin balls.


Igor Roldugin (see the video below),  European Champion among veterans (50+), uses Spinlord Degu 1.5 mm and Grass dtecs 1.6 mm on Andro Fibercomp Def. He  chops, hits, spins and blocks extremely well with the short pips and he mostly uses them on backhand while the long pips - on the forehand. I played him last year and it was a nightmare.  




Edited by ChichoFicho - 03/26/2020 at 7:03pm
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2020 at 1:42pm
I believe it was a nightmare, those changes in spin and speed are nasty. The kid has some very good moves against him though. Sometimes when he starts looping to the long pips, the ball comes back higher and higher and eventually he gets to smashing the ball.

Still it surprises me that such a young player does not get proper training against pips defence (both short and long) because he seems to touch every ball with more caution than necessary.

I have been wanting to post a similar video that illustrates the flaws of long pimples and luckily I found this one:


The point I want to make is that it is very difficult to return the ball into a place where it is uncomfortable for the attacker when the attacker returns a heavy chop with a push and then follows up with a weak ball into the long pimples. This is the area where it is easier to play with short  pimples. As it can be seen  in the video, the chopper is forced into these kind of mistakes on several occasions.

It is also visible that the spin reversal does not really disturb the attacker.



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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2020 at 1:50pm
At the same time, I would like to thank you again for the input. I decided on buying a sheet of Spectol Blue in 1.5 mm. The other short pip I have is a Tibhar Speedy Soft. The Spectol Blue seems to have slightly smaller pimples but what really stands out is that the pips are further apart compared to the Tibhar.

I hope to test it soon but it depends of course on the restrictions.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bokai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2020 at 8:44pm
If your chopping with SP, u should really be using a spin type pips and not more 'deceptive' ones IMO.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2020 at 3:06pm
I have been trying the Spectol Blue for 20 hours. It has not met my expectations as a chopping short pip even though I bought the thinnest sponge possible (1.5 mm). It is impossible for me to chop fast loops so I gave up on that.

There is a huge upside, though. It is awesome for attacking. When my practice partner put the slightest topsin on the ball and I countered that with a countering motion, the ball did not bounce up but went on flat. If he served sidespin, he got a very weird ball back that turned left right after the bounce. Control is very good for a short pip.  It is more disruptive than Yasaka's short pip and Tibhar's Speedy Soft XD which are only good to hit through incoming balls. With the TSP there is the possibility of varying the spin and path of the ball.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Baobei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 8:36am
Have you tried regular Spectol already? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 4:23pm
or ding song
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Da Baobei Da Baobei wrote:

Have you tried regular Spectol already? 


Yes, I tried it out in the last year of the celluloid ball era. Its slowness struck me and that led me to decide to never buy short pips with traditional sponge any more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by MikeXSmith MikeXSmith wrote:

Originally posted by bokai bokai wrote:

If your chopping with SP, u should really be using a spin type pips and not more 'deceptive' ones IMO.  

If you think short pips are for chopping, you have other bigger problems such as delusions and should seek help first.  Sorry to sound so mean but short pips is a hitting rubber not a chopping rubber unless maybe you are Richard Bergmann or Dick Miles Tongue

If you want to use a rubber in an all around fashion then you are better off using smooth rubber than short pips. It is insane to think you can use short pips is an all around mode even if it is supposedly "disruptive", which is unethicial anyway, with any kind of rubber.  Also at slow speeds no short pip can be as disruptive as a long pip. I had few players beat the crap out of me with high speed smashes using such disruptive short pips but on the forehand (mostly penhold) but not backhand 


I can chop quite well with long pips, the aim of my question was to find a short pip rubber that can be used more effectively when they try to exploit the weaknesses of long pips, that is they cannot produce any spin against a no spin serve and 4-5 no-spin pushes and on top of all that, they are difficult to attack with even the opportunity arises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

or ding song


Or Wang Yang more recently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

or ding song


Or Wang Yang more recently.


Or China National Champ Hou Yingchao

https://youtu.be/-Yso2uzA1Mo
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